Oh oh I seem to have run into someone who may be as long winded as myself ...
LOL yes it does look that way now doesn't it. I am actually known for long and complicated posts on myspace boards, but not yet on Indianz.com as I avoid posting there much as of yet due to all of the fighting.
I guess it will make conversations between us interesting to say the least huh.
The main thing I would be responding to, which hasn't already been said before by many other people would be pointing out numerous examples of where it appears to me that something was said , and then you claim that was never said. Which seems kind of a waste of time..
I have no idea what you are talking about other then I think you take my words out of context very often.
So I am going to try to reply by just staying with the main issue ... which seems to be ( if I understand this correctly ) that you feel using the term PODIA is unfair because you believe people either are entirely Indian or entirely not an Indian, and that people who you see as fully NDN are somehow being put down, discriminated against and persecuted by not being recognized by other NDNs and their own tribes as being fully NDN and instead called PODIAs.
Yea to keep thing simple I guess you could say that. I view people based on their actions and where their heart seems to be, and not things that they have no control over.
I see no reason to refer to somebody as a Fullblood, Halfbreed, Mixed blood, or thin blood in the context of saying if they are Indian or not. To do so would be like me always referring to my niece as half Mexican when speaking to her, or about her to anyone. She is simply my relations and my dearly loved family member regardless. So if somebody is Indian and part of the community then they are simply Indian, and are family regardless.
Sure terms like mixed blood, thin blood might be pertinent to speak about in regards to social issues such as how somebody who is only 1/4 won't experience the same hardships as one of their full blooded cousins, but does that make them any less Indian?
As for the word PODIA. Dr Al has now stated he created that word to describe people that might descent from some gggg grandparent or whatever. In fact his exact words were
"I came up with the term because some super sensitive people objected to the more commonly used term, thinblood. So since some object to this new one too, let's hear their suggesions besides "claims a g g g grandmother."
If persons such as that were not enrolled, or not part of any Indian community then I would not even consider them Indian.
So my objection is not pointing out that some people are not Indian even if they might have some distant ancestor, but was objecting to it being used on people that are part of a community. The first time I see that word used was not here, but rather somebody from here going on myspace and using it. They used that word to describe an EXPLOITER. I felt they were insulting mixed people who lived as members of an Indian community or were trying to connect to their ancestry in a good way but using such a word to to describe an exploiter. The word has rubbed me the wrong way ever since, and stuck in my mind as just another word to divide people based on BQ, which is really neither scientific, or an Indigenous concept in the first place.
However to keep things simple I will agree to retract my opposition to the word as long as I don't see it being used to describe people that should not have that word attached to them.
That in mind I think we might have an understanding, and almost something to agree on here, yes?
A. ) NDN identity and culture is passed on indefintely no matter many generations a persons family has lived in a non native community and no matter how many generations of non native parents are included in this persons line of descent .
Never said anything like that, and I don't know why you would even imply that I did. However it is not impossible for that to happen, however though is highly unlikely.
B.) An NDN identity is lost as soon as there is one generation of outmarriage or a persons family has not lived in a native community for a generation
Nope don't believe that either.
C. )There is some sudden cut off point where a person has a parent who is fully NDN but their own identity is fully non NDN.
I am assuming you mean if the child of this person is MIXED Right? In that regards if that cut off point is sudden as you say; I would say only sudden if that person decides to live as a Non Indian. To give an example I have a close friend who is Navajo, and sort of an adopted Grandmother to me. Her grandson is only 1/4. I asked her one day what she felt about BQ and how she thought people should be considered Indian in regards to it. She told me that it was not for her to decide, but up to the person. She said her grandson chose to be white and not Navajo, but if he wanted to be either one it was his choice.
I have never known really know to many elders that would ever preach such a thing such as BQ, and rarely ever have heard of a spiritual leader doing it either. Most of the time what I do hear is "you know so and so has Indian blood, or is Indian, but they don't want to be or chose not to be Indian."
D. ) You are just repeating something you heard which sounded good, but now you think about it it doesn't really make sense and there is people somewhere in between being fully an NDN and fully not an NDN.
As you have yourself noted I am "long winded," and so why would you even ask this? I have been very complex in what I have said as well, so I would not just be repeating anything because it once sounded good to me.
I stand by my statement that you are either Indian or you or not. There is no being "part Indian." I don't know even what you mean by somebody can even be "somewhere between."
I am not trying to put people in little boxes based on this or that because they do this, and don't do that. That seems to be more along the lines of things I have read you say. I have long pointed out my view that history has happened and has had some huge effects, many of which have been bad.
Everyone has different views of what is being Indian, and a lot of that is based on THEIR lives, and not the lives of the people they are trying to put in some box and define. One tribe might only enroll you if you are from the rez and 3/4's, while another might enroll anyone who can find an ancestor on a roll.
So in that scenario who is the real Indian and who is not, and who or what gives any of us to decide any of that past our own opinions
I say part time Indians never are, but that is just my opinion based on what I think is a part time Indian.
Then we have the problem that questions like this have so many more aspects to them because you are dealing with humans, and not subjects to put in boxes.
I don't understand who exactly you feel is being unfairly discriminated against by not being considered fully NDN and entitled to tribal membership ( enrollment ) by other NDN people .
Honestly, and I think I have pointed this out before; enrollment versus non enrollment really isn't an issue with me. I view people as Indian regardless of both of those situations.
Who is all of this hurting though?
A friend of mine that was born and raised on her rez, and ran around in her diapers with nearly everyone changing them. She was always family to them all since it is a very small rez and she is related to most. However since she is more Mexican and other tribes by blood she just barely missed her BQ enrollment requirements, but none of that ever mattered until the casino came to town. Now her own cousins she grew up with act as if they don't even know, and that is probably from their own guilt knowing they were driving escalades when she was having a hard time just finding a job so she could eat.
They all told her she was a "descendant." Funny thing is her own mother is enrolled, and as Native people don't we honor our ancestors and relations? How can you shun call your own family a "descendant?"
You know she never really cared about the money, but I did hear her cry more then once about not being recognized by her own family. How she would go to powwows and dance, while the enrolled people would hide back in the corner and get drunk. How she would try to learn about her culture, and again those who acted like she didn't exist were off getting drunk and stoned.
So you ask me these things as I am speaking, and who gets hurt; I can point out many examples of it, and how these things divide and hurt people just as bad as those who hate Natives have with racist government policies that were set up to divide and wipe people out.
Division, Division, Division.....haven't we had enough of that yet, or do we need to keep finding new ways to do it?
So presumably it would be the people you claim are fully Native , who you feel are being unfairly unrecognized as NDN people. This would have to mean either you consider everyone of any Native descent , in a community with a few other people who are also of some Native descent, who wants to be considered an NDN or an NDN Nation to be fully NDN , or you have figured out some magic line that once a mixed blood person crosses it , they are no longer Native.
Sorry man, but I have gone over this already and I don't understand why you ask me some of the same things over and over.
If you believe in a magic line, you are just doing the same thing you are complaining about tribal governments doing. Lots of people who end up on the wrong side of that line are going to tell you it's unfair. The only difference I can see is your own magic line might be different than the one decided by a particular tribal government.
Well I am not in tribal government, and don't wish to be part of it, or in any government. If I was I probably could come up with a better way to do things then a lot of tribal governments, and I bet that you would probably agree with a lot of what I did.
You also seem believe calling people with no strong connection to a federally recognized Native community People of Distant Indian Ancestry AKA PODIAs is in some way condemning them to some sort of lesser experience .
well actually going by your own definitions that is exactly what it is doing. Instead of looking at them as Indian or non Indian; you recognize that they have this alleged Indian ancestor, but that their experience as the Indian person they claim to be is in fact lesser then your's. since they don't meet up to your cultural standards of what is or is not Indian.
What exactly do you feel these people are unfairly missing out on?
I suppose it would be respect and decency since that is what should be given to people that come in a good way or want to reconnect for the right reasons.
Do I think they should be given enrollment or access to benefits? Not necessarily, and probably not because enrollment does not change who or what they are; so respect and decency would be just fine.
How exactly do you see people who are not able to enrolled in a federally recognized tribe as being deprived ? How do you imagine being enrolled, federally recognized, or just recognized by other Native people would improve this ?
Given the number of people I know that are members of non recognized tribes in California..federal recognition means nothing in terms of how I view them. So it should not be any different on how I view anyone else who is unrecognized.
Recognized by other natives......the harm of this is what exactly? There are unrecognized people you are friend with, correct?
