Claims About Masons

[educatedindian]

Found this site run by a Mason doing incredibly detailed and exhaustive research. A good way to sort thru all the bizarre and confusing claims made about or behalf of the group.

http://66.194.37.95/

Contents.
Objections to Freemasonry Religious Objections Masonic Religion!?? Is Freemasonry A Religion?
 
 Famous Mason: Albert Pike The Pope & The Pornographer - Leo Taxil
 Lucifer
 Albert Pike's Philosophy - Roscoe Pound
 Pike's Racism
 Pike's Statue
 
 Wicca & Freemasonry: A Connection?
 Mormons
 Temples
 Worshipful Master
 Masonic Symbols Emblems of Mortality/Freemasonry
 
 The Infamous Baphomet
 The Obelisk - it's relation to Freemasonry
 Satanism and Freemasonry
 Esoteric Freemasonry
 B'nai B'rith
 Knights Templar
 Red Fez
 Spurious Charges: Freemasonry is Anti-Catholic
 Knights of Columbus
 Excludes Jesus
 Eschatology
 Name of Deity
 GAOTU
 
 Social Objections Pike & Mazzini
 Masonic Charities Overview
 Masonry as a Cult
 Racism - Freemasonry
 The Illuminati Illuminati Con Games
 
 The Kennedy Assassination
 Denver International Airport
 The Great Seal of the United States
 The Pyramid's Eye
 Bloody Oaths - the real story of Masonic obligations
 The Elders of Zion
 Supreme Truth - the Japanese Cult
 Kenya's Devils
 The Ku Klux Klan and More
 The Morgan Affair
 P2 Lodge
 Murder and treason alone excepted
 33rds RULE!
 National Treasure - Freemasonry in the Movies
 Our Wives Rite of Destitution
 
 
 Other Objections Masonic Authors and their Backgrounds
 Jack the Ripper
 The Goat
 Charges of Sexism
 Listing Evils
 Nazism and its hatred of Freemasonry
 
 Reality Check: Stop and THINK! What Masons Believe
 Responding to the critics of Freemasonry Ode to an Anti
 Before You Surf... The Web - A Primer 
 
 Debating Anti-Masons
 Not Everyone's An Anti....
 Disagreements
 
 Where There's Smoke....
 Common Misumptions
 
 Joining Freemasonry Approaching A Lodge for Membership
 Consider becoming a Mason? How Much?
 Should I wait?
 If, You Will My Brother Be
 
 It's a FRATERNITY!
 The Investigation Committee's Visit
 Initiation
 Before You Enter the Lodge After Petitioning Freemasonry
 The Lodge Room Over Simpkins' Store
 
 Grand Lodge List
 What about Women in Freemasonry?
 Masonic Recognition How To Tell
 
 Fake masonry Alharam Phonies
 Democratic Republics
 EsotericMasons
 Regular Grand Lodge of England - Bogus! Hidden Leaders
 Masonic Menace
 
 Grand Lodge of All England
 Grand Orient of US He's SO Grand! The GOFUS nonsense continues....
 It's the Vulcans!
 Brad Cofield
 
 More Phonies
 Malachi York
 Fake Masonry: The "Nigerian Twist"
 Al Nuir/Al Malik Grand Lodge - a front for criminal activities?
 United Grand Lodge of America - another "PHONY" group Memphis and More.... images/ga_memphisedict1.jpg
 
 Seeking Something
 Told Ya So....
 
 
 Esotericism FAQ
 What Goes On At Masonic Meetings?
 
 Famous Freemasons Famous Masons A-L
 Famous Masons M-Z
 Famous Non-Masons - masonicinfo.com President Obama
 
 Our "Masonic Black Sheep" Embezzlement
 New York Masonic Shooting Incident
 
 Infamous Non-Masons
 Masonic Gravestones images/P8180063a1.jpg
 images/ft05.jpg
 images/ft09.jpg
 images/wrc43.jpg
 images/wrc12.jpg
 images/wrc28.jpg
 images/svc04.jpg
 images/ft08.jpg
 images/hickey_marker1.jpg
 images/hickey_marker2.jpg
 images/Hickey_marker3.jpg
 A Masonic Gravestone?
 Cemeteries
 
 Masons ARE Perfect
 Copyright Theft
 Contributors
 
 Masonic Charities Masonic Charities: Caring Concern Masonic Charities: Shriners Hospitals
 Masonic Charities: Dentistry for the Handicapped
 Masonic Charities: Scottish Rite Learning Centers
 Masonic Charities: Knights Templar Eye Foundation
 Masonic Charities: Scottish Rite Children's Medical Center, Georgia
 Masonic Charities: VA Hospital Visitation Program
 Organ Donation
 
 Masonic Charities: Saving History Masonic Charities: National Heritage Museum
 Masonic Charities: George Washington Masonic National Memorial
 Saving History: DeWint House
 Washington Bible
 
 Masonic Charities: Helping Hands Masonic Charities: North Carolina Masonic Children's Home
 CHIP
 Masonic Charities: National Masonic Foundation for Children
 Masonic Angels
 Disaster Relief
 Masonic Charities: Vermont C.A.R.E.
 Masonic Helping Hands: Tennessee's Vision Program
 Masonic Charities: Scholarships
 ShrineSoccer
 Masonic Charities: Not Just Money
 
 
 A Short List of Masonry Frequently Asked Questions Bodies of Masonry
 Genealogy
 Please Explain These Things....
 Our Secrets
 Fraternity
 Did You Know?
 Quotes from/about Masons & Masonry
 Quick Answers Spear of Longinus Hitler and the Occult by Ken Anderson Richard and Adolf
 
 
 
 
 Masonic Education Reading
 MasonicInfo: Book Reviews The Secret History of Freemasonry
 Freemasons for Dummies
 Celebration of the Craft
 The Freemasons
 A Pilgrim's Path - John J. Robinson
 The Meaning of Masonry - Perkins
 Is It True What They Say About Freemasonry?
 David vs. Goliath - A book to read!
 Cyclopedia
 The Boy Who Cried Wolf - Thorne
 Unholy
 The Brotherhood by Stephen Knight: Book Review
 The DaVinci Code
 Freemasonry: Mankind's Hidden Enemy - Book Review
 Freemasonry in the 21stCentury by Don Bradley
 Occult Conspiracy - Howard: Book Review
 The 'Adept' Series - Kurtz & Harris
 Born In Blood
 Mason & Dixon - Pynchon
 American Freemasons
 Book of Fate
 Templar Code for Dummies
 101 Things You Didn't Know about the Freemasons - Book Review
 The Complete idiot's Guide to Freemasonry
 Solomon's Builders
 The Plot
 Secret Plots & HIdden Agendas - Paul Coughlin
 Two Crowns for America - Kurtz
 Quips, Squibs
 The Second Messiah - Knight & Lomas
 The Hiram Key - Knight & Lomas
 Freemasonry & Judiasm: Secret Powers - Book Review
 Freemasonry: The Hidden Cult In Our Midst - Harris
 Hidden Secrets of Freemasonry - Burns
 Masonic Rites & Wrongs - Tsoukalas
 The Magic Flute Unveiled
 The Temple and The Lodge
 Reasoning from the Scriptures books/Reasoning-Masons.pdf
 
 A Concise Dictionary of Cults & Religions
 Holy Blood Holy Grail
 Secret Architecture
 Cult & Ritual Abuse - A total waste of money!
 Freemasons for Dummies
 freemasonskey
 
 Masonic Book Sources
 Some Masonic Resources The Masonic Society
 
 
 
 Objectors Types Religious Intolerants - A Description Attack on America
 Stomping Satan
 Religious Objections: Preachers (?)
 
 Conspiracy Theorists Conspiracy Examples
 Conspiracy Arguments from anti-Masons
 Conspiracy Theorists: Militias/Patriots
 
 Hate Groups Anti-Masonic Hate Stamps
 
 Self-Servers More Self-Serving
 
 
 Groups That Oppose Freemasonry
 Anti-Masons named The Secret Founding of America
 Present Anti-Masons Anti-Masonic Examples: Neil Brick
 Anti-Masonic Examples: Ed Brown
 Anti-Masonic Examples: Tony Brown
 Anti-Masonic Examples: Dr. Cathy Burns
 Anti-Masonic Examples: The Cutting Edge The Dull Edge
 Lies & Videotape-for sale at Cutting Edge
 
 Anti-Masonic Examples: The Freemasonry Watch Website Rewriting History - the Freemasonry Watch Way
 Watchy's Diversions
 
 Mike 'Fishy' Gentry
 Anti-Masonic Examples: Jack Harris
 Anti-Masonic Example: Richard Hoagland
 Anti-Masonic Examples: Larry Holly
 Anti-Masonic Examples: David Icke
 Anti-Masonic Examples: Kansan1225
 Anti-Masonic Examples: Maurice Kellett
 Anti-Masonic Examples: Ephesians 5-11 / Larry Kunk
 Anti-Masonic Examples: Texe Marrs
 Anti-Masonic Examples: Ken Mitchell Anti-Masonic Examples: Ken's Identities
 Anti-Masonic Examples: Ken's Beliefs
 Anti-Masonic Examples: Ken Mitchell's Quackery
 
 Anti-Masonic Examples: Sam Moser images/moser.2.gif
 Anti-Masonic Examples: Sam Moser a/k/a Jerry Newport
 
 Anti-Masonic Examples: "Pastor" Brian Boggs
 Anti-Masonic Examples: Mike Restivo Mike Restivo's Entrapment Games
 FAQ about Mike Restivo
 BeingRestivo
 Mike Restivo's Spam - and more Spam!
 
 Anti-Masonic Examples: Ministry of Bible Defense / Sonny Rene Stermole 
 Anti-Masonic Examples: "Saint John The Reformer" The "Saint" and his Sublime Diversions
 Deceptions of a "Saint": Saving Canada
 
 Anti-Masonic Examples: Skip Sampson
 Anti-Masonic Examples: Bill Schnoebelen
 Anti-Masonic Examples: Jim Shaw
 Anti-Masonic Examples: Chris Stevens (UK)
 Anti-Masonic examples - Selwyn Stevens
 Karen Trenouth
 Leo Lyon Zagami - Another Anti-Mason 
 Anti-Masonic Examples: VOMIT
 Anti-Masonic Examples: Duane Washum Anti-Masonic Examples: Duane's 'Testimony'
 
 Anti-Masonic Examples: Roger "El Gato" Bullock
 Anti-Masonic Examples: Chick Publications
 Anti-Masonic Examples: Greg Lambert Anti-Mason Greg Lambert: Fake Gospel
 
 Anti Masonic Examples: Pat Robertson
 Anti-Masonic Examples: Acacia Press
 "True" Catholic Dot Org
 Anti-Masonic Examples: The Others (A-L)
 Anti-Masonic Examples: The Others (M-Z)
 Anti-Masonic Examples: Echos The "Marginals" on alt.freemasonry images/daryl_ring.jpg
 
 
 
 Past Anti-Masons Past Anti-Masons - John Quincy Adams Anti-Masonic Party Convention
 
 Anti-Masonic Examples: Ezra Cook
 Past Anti-Masons - Bernard Fay
 Past Anti-Masons - Rev. Charles Finney
 Past Anti-Masons - Erich Ludendorff
 Past Anti-Masons: John Robison 
 Past Anti-Masons - Thaddeus Stevens
 
 "Famous" Anti-Masons
 
 Anti-Masonic Tactics Strange Doings of Anti-Masons
 Anti-Masons Use FRAUD
 Tall Tales Told as Truth
 Anti-Masonic Meetings
 Tricks & Tactics: Caught Ya!
 
 
 Masonry's Top Leader Speaks
 Freemasonry Primer
 What's New at masonicinfo.com whatsnew_files/filelist.xml
 What Was New at masonicinfo.com
 A Diary of Masonicinfo.Com Web Changes Freemasonry by Mark Stavish
 The Rosslyn Hoax
 Michigan Beacon
 
 Some Facts About masonicinfo.com - and some links too! Masonicinfo.com Policies
 masonicinfo's 'Thanks' Page Personal - The Story of Prince Assumptions
 
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[nemesis]

I am very far from knowledgeable about masons but would like to share something that is important about America's oldest masonic institution, The Improved Order of Red Men website here:

http://www.redmen.org/

wiki page here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Improved_Order_of_Red_Men

Basically, when colonising powers were committing genocide against 1st Nations peoples, a group of white men decided to set up a fraternal organisation using 1st Nations rituals (or more accurately white male perceptions of such) as the foundation for their fraternal identity.





I actually learned about this masonic order while reading what I think is a very important book, Deeply into the Bone -Re-Inventing Rites of Passage by Ronald L. Grimes

A theme throughout the book is the hijacking if Rites of Passage rituals by the nuage movement who market them them as experiences to facilitate "self development", whereas Grimes claims that ROP rituals always have been about celebrating and validating a person's place and responsibilities within their culture. I am going to re-read the book soon but I would be interested if anyone else has read it as I would like to exchange thoughts and ideas re the concepts in the book



http://www.ucpress.edu/books/pages/8873.php

[dabosijigwokush]

what i can not believe that they are still to this day in exsentence
so if the bill passes in the pa house would these people be declared natives as well, based on
the way the bill is layed out, house bill 338

tribe: a seperate and distinct community of native americans generally related by blood, marriage or adoption, with  common cultural ties and interests which differentate member from nonmembers

[nemesis]

what i can not believe that they are still to this day in exsentence

It's incredible isn't it?

If a group of white men had founded a similar group where they "blacked up" and based their rituals on their perception of African rituals, I very much doubt that such a group would have survived, for obvious reasons.

Did you see the Q&A section on their site?

Q. Will I be required to wear Native American dress to the meetings?
A. No — The only time the Native American regalia is worn is during the Adoption Degree. Occasionally, the tribal officers may wear Native American costuming at various public affairs, but this is done with discretion.

Q. Do you have to be a Native American to belong?
A. No.

Q. How is The Improved Order of Red Men associated with Native Americans?
A. Only through our customs, terminology, and rituals, which are patterned after early Native Americans.

Words fail me

[Superdog]

The IORM have membership clubs all over the US.  Many of them use the symbolism of their club when donating items or on headstones after they pass.  The original bylaws of the group actually excluded American Indians from the club, but that changed.  From what I read about them the idea behind that was to make sure they'd never be mistaken for actual Indian people.  The intent behind it is good, but the message of these fraternal organizations is garbled in the various symbolisms they adopt (i.e. Masons et al and the conspiracy theories that they run the world).

There used to be a chapter of Lumbee IORM in North Carolina.  Not sure if they are still in existence, but it's still interesting to learn about.  The original Tea Partiers were from the preceding group The Order of Red Men who dressed up as Mohawks and dumped shiploads of English tea into Boston Harbor as a protest against taxes being levied by England on Americans.  The Order of Red Men disbanded after the adoption of the US Constitution and the Improved Order of Red Men popped up in its place in the very early 1800's.

I'm not a big fan of them of the IORM in general though just because of the stereotypes they perpetuate, no matter how well intended they are. They could still serve the same purpose (patriotism, national values, etc) without it.

Superdog

[dualbuster]

Hmmm, this section seems to be collecting dust. I have to say that I find it extremely strange that on an American Indian message board that the FreeMasons are actually listed in the "non-fraud" section. The ironies in this world just get weirder and weirder.

[nemesis]

@ dualbuster

While I'm critical of the IORM for obvious reasons, and while freemasonry in some countries is associated with organised crime, there are a lot of masonic groups who do very good charitable work and who are not involved in organised crime or cultural appropriation.

There are probably lots of frauds in the "research needed" section, my understanding of it being that the mods here take very great care to be 100% sure before putting anyone in the frauds section.

Also there are so many dodgy plastic shamans around that the mods are very, very busy.  Nobody pays them to do this and the nature of the work means they have to deal with very disturbing material, death threats and worse.

You won't like me saying this, but you do come across as being a tad arrogant in your postings.

You are a new poster, a guest here, and yet you are trying to tell the mods how to run the site.

Please don't take this the wrong way, but I think you should consider  listening / reading more and saying / posting less for a while.

I say this as a deeply flawed person who has to give myself the same advice from time to time.

[dualbuster]

Nemesis, you just criticized me in that post. And ya know what? You did it the CORRECT way and I appreciate it because it was constructive and it wasn't hostile. I've come across as arrogant I admit, but in reality it's not arrogance, it's frustration! The 2 can look alike sometimes, I admit. I swear though I'm not arrogant, I'm just a seeker of truth in a twisted world (well, twisted society anyway) and I have plenty of anger issues.

I know that most FreeMasons are just "regular" people doing good works. What I question though are those at the TOP of the Masonic "pyramid" who just happen to be in all kinds of powerful political positions in this world. There are plenty of ex-masons who have said some pretty frightening things about them though...always the same things too. To tell you the truth, I find them to be extremely scary. But whatever. The point is that I don't get why this "educated indian" who calls people "conspiracy nuts" would place this here. It just seems way out of place and a bit spooky.

Anyway, I'm done here on this board. I know there are plenty of great people here (like you Nemesis) but I find the fact that a white woman (on a huge ego-trip) is given the title "global moderator" on a site that's supposed to be run by American Indians.

This is gonna be a controversial thing to say, but I need to get it off my chest. Why is an "educated indian" (indoctrinated human) publicly supporting/endorsing an organization that is at least partly responsible for the American Indian holocaust? Food for thought.

[educatedindian]

Nemesis, you just criticized me in that post. And ya know what? You did it the CORRECT way and I appreciate it because it was constructive and it wasn't hostile. I've come across as arrogant I admit, but in reality it's not arrogance, it's frustration! The 2 can look alike sometimes, I admit. I swear though I'm not arrogant, I'm just a seeker of truth in a twisted world (well, twisted society anyway) and I have plenty of anger issues.

I know that most FreeMasons are just "regular" people doing good works. What I question though are those at the TOP of the Masonic "pyramid" who just happen to be in all kinds of powerful political positions in this world. There are plenty of ex-masons who have said some pretty frightening things about them though...always the same things too. To tell you the truth, I find them to be extremely scary. But whatever. The point is that I don't get why this "educated indian" who calls people "conspiracy nuts" would place this here. It just seems way out of place and a bit spooky.

Anyway, I'm done here on this board. I know there are plenty of great people here (like you Nemesis) but I find the fact that a white woman (on a huge ego-trip) is given the title "global moderator" on a site that's supposed to be run by American Indians.

This is gonna be a controversial thing to say, but I need to get it off my chest. Why is an "educated indian" (indoctrinated human) publicly supporting/endorsing an organization that is at least partly responsible for the American Indian holocaust? Food for thought.

 

Now it's my turn to say "WOW!" Or just...WTH?

What can you say when someone says something so bizarre and lunatic?

And just to state the obvious, the only endorsement I gave for the site was on the research debunking all the nonsensical claims made about Masons, which you apparently believe in.

The crazy is strong in this one...

[PATRICK LAVALLEY]

I have come across reports of legends in which the Masons arrive in Nova Scotia and taught the locals their traditions.

I have come across books which detail Masonic ceremonies which parallel Midewewin ceremonies.

At this point it is too early to link the two historically or demonize either for deeds on either of their journeys. I am from a family which conducts certain ceremonies which are today considered Mide; I think for personal reasons (which I won't elaborate on) my family does not attend Mide ceremonies of the annual cycle. I have attended a Thanksgiving Ceremony in St. Charles, ON, but that does not make me Mide, which is making a strong and welcome comeback on my Rez'. There are one or two Mide here who have given me grief for not learning through the channels they have, and one of them has, told me point-blank that I do not have the right to research, learn stories, or apply them how I see fit because I am not Intiated. My belief is that if I were Intiated, I would learn and endeavour to live up to Mide teachings in the spirit of the protocols which the Mide would expect of tehir students. Both Societies have degrees, Initiation Ceremonies in which the Initiate is killed and brought back to life, and both have complimentary teachings surrounding this act of being reborn. Since I am not an Initiate I am NOT bound by protocols which deprive its membership from individual search for knowledge. Another connection between the two Societies are that the two have a base in Apprentice and Craft structures, much in the same way universities and colleges. When you pay a master to teach you something as an apprentice, you are bound by the structure and abilities of the master. One of the ways this website uses to root out frauds indicts the Midewewin in that back-in-the-day potential initiates would pay for the right to learn from the teachers. Sometimes familes would work for long periods of time in order to pay the 'tuition' required by the teacher. Also, keep in mind that many Mide with their own songs and scrolls in the last 100+ years have sold the interpretations to their Scrolls to Museums and sundry anthropologists. One final connection between the Masonic and Midewewin Societies: TECUMSEH was both; I know this for a FACT!... True students of history will know that Tecumseh and his brother Tenskwatawa conducted a short-lived 'crusade' against paganism, idolatry, christianity, and false teachings among others. Tecumseh and tenskwatawa also fulfilled the same roles that Jesus and his brother James fulfilled in the lore of the Masonic history-One brother was the Head of Church, the other the Head of State.

[nasari]

This is just a general question, I make no claim to be an expert on anything and please forgive me for my ignorance if it comes across as offensive, I apologize in advance:

I don't know very much about Masons, only that there are lots of conspiracy theories about them, that while there are some lodges and affiliated groups that do very good charitable work, like the Shriner's, the Kiwanis Club, The Rotary Club and The Lion's Club, there seems to be lots of information (not sure how much of it is real or not) about the upper hierarchy of Masons and their general intentions and their possibly Druidic/Templar history?

So I'm just putting my question out there since it was brought to my attention recently that a Mohawk Grandmother originally from Kanawake, now based in Maniwaki is doing sweat lodges for frenchcanadian Masons and imparting teachings to them. I don't know the details or anything, but in traditional Native teachings, is something like this legit?

[Smart Mule]

I know quite a few Masons and they're all sort of...well...boring.  I also had the unfortunate experience of being a 'rainbow girl' when I was a teenager and...it was boring.  No conspiratorial stuff that I could see.

As far as this grandmother up at Maniwaki, would you feel comfortable pming me her name?  I have a very good friend who is also a Grandmother up at Maniwaki and I think she should be made aware of the situation.  I don't think they'd be very happy about this happening up there.  My fiance is a very large man of the caucasian persuasion and he was given a hard time just for camping on the lake, even though he had permission from a well respected individual.  Given that I dont think the scenario you mention would be very much appreciated.

[Smart Mule]

Nasari I can't pm you back because you are a guest.  

[Smart Mule]

So I'm just putting my question out there since it was brought to my attention recently that a Mohawk Grandmother originally from Kanawake, now based in Maniwaki is doing sweat lodges for frenchcanadian Masons and imparting teachings to them. I don't know the details or anything, but in traditional Native teachings, is something like this legit?

After speaking to Elders and elders at Maniwaki as well as the individual you referred to I was told repeatedly that this is not a concern and is not quite how the scenario was presented.

[apukjij]

hi nasari, just to let you know its customary for new members to post an introduction of themselves in the New Members section, many include Tribal affiliation, if any, in this introduction. As well, your type of posting would warrant a New Thread in the Research Section, if you truly want to follow-up on it. As Sky's later posting indicated, some here at NAFPS have friends and loved ones in Maniwaki, and can easily check any claims being made about the Elders living there. Sky has done so, and it seems that this is a non-issue for them.