Walter Renz

[Niiki]

I did not say that Walter was selling items on eBay, but thanks for the information of someone else selling it   There is a person who is selling her items online as Indian made who is a part of this "morning star" group that Walter made up. But I cannot discuss the action being taken.

In an earlier post you did accuse Walter of selling items on ebay:

Now, Al feels that Walter is not hurting anyone, but he, and his group is selling items online as Indian made, that is in violation of the Indian arts and crafts act of 1990.. to which, action is currently being taken, I cannot discuss what all is happening, but I have not sat by with idle hands. So there are people who have purchased items from these people and has been defrauded.

[Niiki]

But let me clear something up for you Nikki, my husband is not a Little Charley, my husband is not related to my family, you took a post off the Charley surname board and tried to make it look like I wrote the first post, yet I had responded to the second post with my great grandfather Sam Charley, his wife Betsy Panther Charley... At the time we thought that Delaware Charley was Sam's dad, I have since learned this is not so... but I also learned some of the family was known as Little Charley, thus I am related to the lady's husband who posted about the Little Charley family..

And now you are saying that you did not write this???

Charley's of Oklahoma:
October 14, 2003
My husband is a descendant of Little Charley, Mark Charley,& Eugene Charley. They are
from the Little Axe area in Oklahoma. They are Absentee Shawnee. Any connection?

Keely Denning wrote: http://genforum.genealogy.com/charley/messages/63.html

Would like to know more of your Charley's, I am the great grandaughter of Sam Charley
and Betsy Panther Charley. I believe Sam to be the son of Delaware Charley, their
daughter Eli married Isaac Squirrel who was Shawnee.
December 13, 2004

[Keely]

But let me clear something up for you Nikki, my husband is not a Little Charley, my husband is not related to my family, you took a post off the Charley surname board and tried to make it look like I wrote the first post, yet I had responded to the second post with my great grandfather Sam Charley, his wife Betsy Panther Charley... At the time we thought that Delaware Charley was Sam's dad, I have since learned this is not so... but I also learned some of the family was known as Little Charley, thus I am related to the lady's husband who posted about the Little Charley family..

And now you are saying that you did not write this???

Charley's of Oklahoma:
October 14, 2003
My husband is a descendant of Little Charley, Mark Charley,& Eugene Charley. They are
from the Little Axe area in Oklahoma. They are Absentee Shawnee. Any connection?

Keely Denning wrote: http://genforum.genealogy.com/charley/messages/63.html

Would like to know more of your Charley's, I am the great grandaughter of Sam Charley
and Betsy Panther Charley. I believe Sam to be the son of Delaware Charley, their
daughter Eli married Isaac Squirrel who was Shawnee. kdenning@cox.net
December 13, 2004

Nikki,

You should have provided a link...

http://genforum.genealogy.com/charley/messages/57.html

As anyone can see, the post was written by Shirley Charley about her husbands family the Little Charley's... below her post, anyone can see my reply to her post...

If you back up to the original poster, Jeannine Vernon, she is of my family..

Do you understand this any better? So, to answer your question if I deny making a post saying my husband was a Little Charley, the answer is obvious, I did not write that, but replied to the poster who is married to Little Charley..

[Keely]

I did not say that Walter was selling items on eBay, but thanks for the information of someone else selling it   There is a person who is selling her items online as Indian made who is a part of this "morning star" group that Walter made up. But I cannot discuss the action being taken.

In an earlier post you did accuse Walter of selling items on ebay:

Now, Al feels that Walter is not hurting anyone, but he, and his group is selling items online as Indian made, that is in violation of the Indian arts and crafts act of 1990.. to which, action is currently being taken, I cannot discuss what all is happening, but I have not sat by with idle hands. So there are people who have purchased items from these people and has been defrauded.

This is too funny!!!

Nikki,

The first person who brought up selling items on eBay was YOU! You wrote that I was accusing Walter of selling items on eBay, you wrote that after you copied and pasted a post I had on indianz about SOMEONE ELSE who is selling items on eBay fraudulantly! That post on indianz had NOTHING to do with Walter Renz!! Do some checking before accusing people of things that you confused yourself with!

Did you see Walters name in that post about the person I directed my indianz post to? No, you didnt, because I didnt accuse him...

Here is the eBay site to the person I directed that post to!

http://stores.shop.ebay.com/Shawnee-Nation-URB__W0QQ_sidZ459876747QQ_trksidZp4634Q2ec0Q2em14?_pgn=2

Now tell me Nikki, what does that seller have to do with Walter Renz?

You keep making false accusations and twisting things into something they are not.. and everytime you do it, I am going to reply with proof and links to people can see what the truth is...

[Keely]

But let me clear something up for you Nikki, my husband is not a Little Charley, my husband is not related to my family, you took a post off the Charley surname board and tried to make it look like I wrote the first post, yet I had responded to the second post with my great grandfather Sam Charley, his wife Betsy Panther Charley... At the time we thought that Delaware Charley was Sam's dad, I have since learned this is not so... but I also learned some of the family was known as Little Charley, thus I am related to the lady's husband who posted about the Little Charley family..

And now you are saying that you did not write this???

Charley's of Oklahoma:
October 14, 2003
My husband is a descendant of Little Charley, Mark Charley,& Eugene Charley. They are
from the Little Axe area in Oklahoma. They are Absentee Shawnee. Any connection?

Keely Denning wrote: http://genforum.genealogy.com/charley/messages/63.html

Would like to know more of your Charley's, I am the great grandaughter of Sam Charley
and Betsy Panther Charley. I believe Sam to be the son of Delaware Charley, their
daughter Eli married Isaac Squirrel who was Shawnee. kdenning@cox.net
December 13, 2004

Oh and BTW, I really AM the great grandaughter of Sam Charley and Betsy Panther Charley 

[Keely]

I did not say that Walter was selling items on eBay, but thanks for the information of someone else selling it   There is a person who is selling her items online as Indian made who is a part of this "morning star" group that Walter made up. But I cannot discuss the action being taken.

In an earlier post you did accuse Walter of selling items on ebay:

Now, Al feels that Walter is not hurting anyone, but he, and his group is selling items online as Indian made, that is in violation of the Indian arts and crafts act of 1990.. to which, action is currently being taken, I cannot discuss what all is happening, but I have not sat by with idle hands. So there are people who have purchased items from these people and has been defrauded.

Here Nikki, a link for you to show you these people are doing exactly as I say... selling items online as Indian made which is in violation of the Indian arts and crafts act. I even have private emails from some of these people telling me their work is Indian made...

http://still-wateroriginals.tripod.com/

So yes, people from that group are indeed selling their work online as Indian made... Are you done trying to disprove me yet?

[Niiki]

I did not say that Walter was selling items on eBay, but thanks for the information of someone else selling it   There is a person who is selling her items online as Indian made who is a part of this "morning star" group that Walter made up. But I cannot discuss the action being taken.

In an earlier post you did accuse Walter of selling items on ebay:

Now, Al feels that Walter is not hurting anyone, but he, and his group is selling items online as Indian made, that is in violation of the Indian arts and crafts act of 1990.. to which, action is currently being taken, I cannot discuss what all is happening, but I have not sat by with idle hands. So there are people who have purchased items from these people and has been defrauded.

Here Nikki, a link for you to show you these people are doing exactly as I say... selling items online as Indian made which is in violation of the Indian arts and crafts act. I even have private emails from some of these people telling me their work is Indian made...

http://still-wateroriginals.tripod.com/

So yes, people from that group are indeed selling their work online as Indian made... Are you done trying to disprove me yet?

Quote from: Keely on July 19, 2009, 08:11:57 PM
I did not say that Walter was selling items on eBay, but thanks for the information of someone else selling it  Grin There is a person who is selling her items online as Indian made who is a part of this "morning star" group that Walter made up. But I cannot discuss the action being taken.


In an earlier post you did accuse Walter of selling items on ebay:

Now, Al feels that Walter is not hurting anyone, but he, and his group is selling items online as Indian made, that is in violation of the Indian arts and crafts act of 1990.. to which, action is currently being taken, I cannot discuss what all is happening, but I have not sat by with idle hands. So there are people who have purchased items from these people and has been defrauded.
   

[Niiki]

I did not say that Walter was selling items on eBay, but thanks for the information of someone else selling it   There is a person who is selling her items online as Indian made who is a part of this "morning star" group that Walter made up. But I cannot discuss the action being taken.

In an earlier post you did accuse Walter of selling items on ebay:

Now, Al feels that Walter is not hurting anyone, but he, and his group is selling items online as Indian made, that is in violation of the Indian arts and crafts act of 1990.. to which, action is currently being taken, I cannot discuss what all is happening, but I have not sat by with idle hands. So there are people who have purchased items from these people and has been defrauded.

This is too funny!!!

Nikki,

The first person who brought up selling items on eBay was YOU! You wrote that I was accusing Walter of selling items on eBay, you wrote that after you copied and pasted a post I had on indianz about SOMEONE ELSE who is selling items on eBay fraudulantly! That post on indianz had NOTHING to do with Walter Renz!! Do some checking before accusing people of things that you confused yourself with!

Did you see Walters name in that post about the person I directed my indianz post to? No, you didnt, because I didnt accuse him...

Here is the eBay site to the person I directed that post to!

http://stores.shop.ebay.com/Shawnee-Nation-URB__W0QQ_sidZ459876747QQ_trksidZp4634Q2ec0Q2em14?_pgn=2

Now tell me Nikki, what does that seller have to do with Walter Renz?

You keep making false accusations and twisting things into something they are not.. and everytime you do it, I am going to reply with proof and links to people can see what the truth is...

Wrong again Keely! You are the one that made an issue out of Walter and his group selling items on ebay! As you modified and deleted the post in a response to Al. Don't think that we have not made hard copies of our posts.
You think you can pull one over on us. I also have been aware those that have contacted some of your so-called relatives, that these relatives you say are related to don't know you!

[Keely]

I did not say that Walter was selling items on eBay, but thanks for the information of someone else selling it   There is a person who is selling her items online as Indian made who is a part of this "morning star" group that Walter made up. But I cannot discuss the action being taken.

In an earlier post you did accuse Walter of selling items on ebay:

Now, Al feels that Walter is not hurting anyone, but he, and his group is selling items online as Indian made, that is in violation of the Indian arts and crafts act of 1990.. to which, action is currently being taken, I cannot discuss what all is happening, but I have not sat by with idle hands. So there are people who have purchased items from these people and has been defrauded.

Here Nikki, a link for you to show you these people are doing exactly as I say... selling items online as Indian made which is in violation of the Indian arts and crafts act. I even have private emails from some of these people telling me their work is Indian made...

http://still-wateroriginals.tripod.com/

So yes, people from that group are indeed selling their work online as Indian made... Are you done trying to disprove me yet?

Quote from: Keely on July 19, 2009, 08:11:57 PM
I did not say that Walter was selling items on eBay, but thanks for the information of someone else selling it  Grin There is a person who is selling her items online as Indian made who is a part of this "morning star" group that Walter made up. But I cannot discuss the action being taken.


In an earlier post you did accuse Walter of selling items on ebay:

Now, Al feels that Walter is not hurting anyone, but he, and his group is selling items online as Indian made, that is in violation of the Indian arts and crafts act of 1990.. to which, action is currently being taken, I cannot discuss what all is happening, but I have not sat by with idle hands. So there are people who have purchased items from these people and has been defrauded.
   

No Nikki, no where in there did I say Walter was selling items on eBay, I said they are selling them ONLINE as Indian made, and they are, and I did provide a link.
You are trying to force words into something that was never written. You made a assumption that I was saying eBay when I only said items were being sold online...

[Keely]

I did not say that Walter was selling items on eBay, but thanks for the information of someone else selling it   There is a person who is selling her items online as Indian made who is a part of this "morning star" group that Walter made up. But I cannot discuss the action being taken.

In an earlier post you did accuse Walter of selling items on ebay:

Now, Al feels that Walter is not hurting anyone, but he, and his group is selling items online as Indian made, that is in violation of the Indian arts and crafts act of 1990.. to which, action is currently being taken, I cannot discuss what all is happening, but I have not sat by with idle hands. So there are people who have purchased items from these people and has been defrauded.

Here Nikki, a link for you to show you these people are doing exactly as I say... selling items online as Indian made which is in violation of the Indian arts and crafts act. I even have private emails from some of these people telling me their work is Indian made...

http://still-wateroriginals.tripod.com/

So yes, people from that group are indeed selling their work online as Indian made... Are you done trying to disprove me yet?

Quote from: Keely on July 19, 2009, 08:11:57 PM
I did not say that Walter was selling items on eBay, but thanks for the information of someone else selling it  Grin There is a person who is selling her items online as Indian made who is a part of this "morning star" group that Walter made up. But I cannot discuss the action being taken.


In an earlier post you did accuse Walter of selling items on ebay:

Now, Al feels that Walter is not hurting anyone, but he, and his group is selling items online as Indian made, that is in violation of the Indian arts and crafts act of 1990.. to which, action is currently being taken, I cannot discuss what all is happening, but I have not sat by with idle hands. So there are people who have purchased items from these people and has been defrauded.
   

Nikki,

I think you should know, the first time the issue of eBay that comes up in this whole mess of a thread, comes from one of your posts here is what YOU wrote:

Keely has no evidence to back her claims that Walter Renz has ever sold any Native Crafts on Ebay. Anything he has made has been made as gifts and not for sale. He did give something to someone once, and it ended up on ebay. That is totally wrong, for the person who received the gift and then turned around and sold it, to make it look like Walter was selling Native Crafts on ebay. She herself is totally confused about who Walter Renz as well as herself. She has got Walter Renz and his community confused with Hawk Pope and the Shawnee United Remnant Band. For someone to say that they have always lived amoung their people and then of course she actually lived in NYC in 1999, makes her stories not add up.
She also has been found on other blog sites making racist comments about white people, when she in fact herself is married to someone who is Russian. So who's geneology, stories, community recognition and etc,etc, don't add up, it's Keely's , not mine or anyone elses.
 
So everyone who supports Keely and Keely herself need to get their facts straight because none of you do!


Oneh


Niiki from Tyendinaga Mohawk Territory


Now Nikki, who does not have their facts straight? No one has edited my posts, but thanks to your insistance, I have learned this can be done as I do not use this board enough to know it's format, and now I see the "modify" key which is great since my family, who has been reading some of this, would like to remove our family information, as they feel I dont have to prove anything to you about my family history.

[Moma_porcupine]

Reply #26
Quoting myself

I don't know the person this thread is discussing, but generally speaking, if  people know the truth and are living a lie,  anyone who threatens to expose the truth will be seen as an enemy and undermined and discredited. ( Such as someone who really is from the tribe that is being falsly claimed ) Whether or not anyone is seriously hurt all depends on the situation. Vulnerable people can be really seriously impacted by what these people can do to protect their NDN identity from being exposed as a lie.

This discrediting and undermining can happen to individuals or tribal authorities who do not support these peoples imagined identities.

Maybe Niiki is trying to give us an example of the kind of behavior I was reffering to in the quote above.

Sure , on a message board in cyberspace it just looks silly to make all these unfounded accusations , but what if this situation was happening in real life and Keeley and Niiki were relatives or co workers ? What if someone in Keeley's situation was a vulnerable person ? I've seen similar unfounded personal attacks in some pretty fragile situations and it sure isn't harmless .

This thread is about Walter Renz not about Keeley.

Keeley

now I see the "modify" key which is great since my family, who has been reading some of this, would like to remove our family information, as they feel I dont have to prove anything to you about my family history

.

You might want to save the webpages before you change your posts so no one accuses you of removing wierd stuff that was never there .

[Cetan]

Am I logged on to NAFPS or Indianz.combatzone?? Why dont you take your trashing over ther and leave this forum to discuss frauds

[Keely]

Reply #26
Quoting myself

I don't know the person this thread is discussing, but generally speaking, if  people know the truth and are living a lie,  anyone who threatens to expose the truth will be seen as an enemy and undermined and discredited. ( Such as someone who really is from the tribe that is being falsly claimed ) Whether or not anyone is seriously hurt all depends on the situation. Vulnerable people can be really seriously impacted by what these people can do to protect their NDN identity from being exposed as a lie.

This discrediting and undermining can happen to individuals or tribal authorities who do not support these peoples imagined identities.

Maybe Niiki is trying to give us an example of the kind of behavior I was reffering to in the quote above.

Sure , on a message board in cyberspace it just looks silly to make all these unfounded accusations , but what if this situation was happening in real life and Keeley and Niiki were relatives or co workers ? What if someone in Keeley's situation was a vulnerable person ? I've seen similar unfounded personal attacks in some pretty fragile situations and it sure isn't harmless .

This thread is about Walter Renz not about Keeley.

Keeley

now I see the "modify" key which is great since my family, who has been reading some of this, would like to remove our family information, as they feel I dont have to prove anything to you about my family history

.

You might want to save the webpages before you change your posts so no one accuses you of removing wierd stuff that was never there .

I decided to leave them up. Even though my family feels I dont have to prove myself, I have never edited a post here after I have posted it, to edit anything now may just booster Nikki's continous rant about me.

This thread is about Walter Renz, not the Nikki, Keely show. It is getting old isnt it? But I know me, more false accusations will be said by Nikki, and I will continue to set the record straight. I do admitt, though at times I am entertained by Nikki's attempts to discredit me, at the same time it is boring.

[Keely]

Am I logged on to NAFPS or Indianz.combatzone?? Why dont you take your trashing over ther and leave this forum to discuss frauds

Indianz.combatzone... that is funny! And so true! Even I, who may have been voted the meanist, is tired of all that over there.. no one can hold a conversation on that board without someone butting in and causing trouble. I am not pointing fingers, just sayin...

[Niiki]

I did not say that Walter was selling items on eBay, but thanks for the information of someone else selling it   There is a person who is selling her items online as Indian made who is a part of this "morning star" group that Walter made up. But I cannot discuss the action being taken.

In an earlier post you did accuse Walter of selling items on ebay:

Now, Al feels that Walter is not hurting anyone, but he, and his group is selling items online as Indian made, that is in violation of the Indian arts and crafts act of 1990.. to which, action is currently being taken, I cannot discuss what all is happening, but I have not sat by with idle hands. So there are people who have purchased items from these people and has been defrauded.

Here Nikki, a link for you to show you these people are doing exactly as I say... selling items online as Indian made which is in violation of the Indian arts and crafts act. I even have private emails from some of these people telling me their work is Indian made...

http://still-wateroriginals.tripod.com/

So yes, people from that group are indeed selling their work online as Indian made... Are you done trying to disprove me yet?

Quote from: Keely on July 19, 2009, 08:11:57 PM
I did not say that Walter was selling items on eBay, but thanks for the information of someone else selling it  Grin There is a person who is selling her items online as Indian made who is a part of this "morning star" group that Walter made up. But I cannot discuss the action being taken.


In an earlier post you did accuse Walter of selling items on ebay:

Now, Al feels that Walter is not hurting anyone, but he, and his group is selling items online as Indian made, that is in violation of the Indian arts and crafts act of 1990.. to which, action is currently being taken, I cannot discuss what all is happening, but I have not sat by with idle hands. So there are people who have purchased items from these people and has been defrauded.
   

Nikki,

I think you should know, the first time the issue of eBay that comes up in this whole mess of a thread, comes from one of your posts here is what YOU wrote:

Keely has no evidence to back her claims that Walter Renz has ever sold any Native Crafts on Ebay. Anything he has made has been made as gifts and not for sale. He did give something to someone once, and it ended up on ebay. That is totally wrong, for the person who received the gift and then turned around and sold it, to make it look like Walter was selling Native Crafts on ebay. She herself is totally confused about who Walter Renz as well as herself. She has got Walter Renz and his community confused with Hawk Pope and the Shawnee United Remnant Band. For someone to say that they have always lived amoung their people and then of course she actually lived in NYC in 1999, makes her stories not add up.
She also has been found on other blog sites making racist comments about white people, when she in fact herself is married to someone who is Russian. So who's geneology, stories, community recognition and etc,etc, don't add up, it's Keely's , not mine or anyone elses.
 
So everyone who supports Keely and Keely herself need to get their facts straight because none of you do!


Oneh


Niiki from Tyendinaga Mohawk Territory


Now Nikki, who does not have their facts straight? No one has edited my posts, but thanks to your insistance, I have learned this can be done as I do not use this board enough to know it's format, and now I see the "modify" key which is great since my family, who has been reading some of this, would like to remove our family information, as they feel I dont have to prove anything to you about my family history.

  Wrong again it was mentioned by you and others first before I anything about this. I was only trying speak what is the truth about Walters involvement in this. As he is inoccent of any wrong doing as you are accusing him of.