Sizzle Flambé says Hello

[Sizzle Flambé]

Interesting, you edited out some of my comments in what you quoted...

And clearly marked those spots with "/.../", as I wasn't replying to them.

Lines listing links, for instance. Why list them all over again?

You don't quote all my comments every time either, and why should you?

As to your other complaints, what I posted first about "Native American author" David Seals was that he was someone "to whom NAFPS might perhaps pay closer attention."

(NAFPS as a group could have taken some initiative at that point, done your own checking around instead of sitting back on your hind ends waiting to be served on a silver platter, but no.)

Some links and quotes were provided in <http://tinyurl.com/daveseals-faux-indian>, but NOTE: that's addressed to alt.native regulars who deal with Dave Seals all the time and are familiar with his posts. It is not a self-contained compendium of his deceptions and evasions and all the "evidence" thereof. You can read around the newsgroup for the rest, if interested.

(bolding added)

If now you feel that link was not fairly evidential by NAFPS standards, well, it wasn't presented as such.

As for the newsgroup threads you bring up...

Dave Seals and Monica Charles and Betsy Ashby had been slinging around "sauce for the goose" (read: mud) by the bucketful on alt.native, for months -- in Dave's and Monica's cases, for years (Betsy came more recently) -- despite all appeals to truth and conscience. Now if finally they are getting "sauce for the the gander" (read: long-overdue exposés) back in their teeth, eye for an eye  . . . oh? how terrible? how rude? how thavage?

Sorry, lady, I haven't heard you folks complaining any about Dave and Monica's mud-slinging, using their (respectively) "Big Name Native American Author" status and "Elder" status as platforms to dump on "lesser" folks. What I've heard is defenses like that "well respected elder like Monica" BS from Cetan. Are these one-sided double-standard high-hatted stances supposed to persuade me of either your sincerity or your moral superiority?

[Moma_porcupine]

Sizzle

Sorry, lady, I haven't heard you folks complaining any about Dave and Monica's mud-slinging, using their (respectively) "Big Name Native American Author" status and "Elder" status as platforms to dump on "lesser" folks.

But Sizzle, people who post here keep trying to tell you NAFPS members aren't usually interested in intervening in online mud slinging contests . And you yourself are clearly responsible for throwing at least some of it.

I can't speak for other NAFPS members,  but you are the one who has come over here wanting to get people here involved in taking your side in your disputes, and so my comments are directed to you. It's not my business to criticize Monica's personality - even if I disagree with her on some issues.

I'm trying to explain to you that I don't agree with the way you are behaving and because of that i can't provide the support you are requesting, even if I agree with you on some points.

If you hadn't repeatedly tried to get this support, i wouldn't be explaining why i am not comfortable giving it.

Even if someone is a chronic mean and nasty liar, they still don't ever deserve to be accused of a serious crime they didn't commit, and that you would use this woman's murder as a tool for your petty harrassment and retaliation is completely reprehensible to me. I notice you still aren't taking any responsibility for this.

Your excuse that you are just dishing out what was dished out to others is just avoiding your own responsibilty to make sure your own behavior is at all times good and honest. If everyone decides to give up and behave like Betsy Ashby - or the other people we disagree with , how is that going to make the world a better place? I think the saying is if we take an eye for an eye , soon everybody will be blind. Just being as honest and polite as i can manage, seems to work OK for me.

No double standards here. I annoy pretty much everyone with my big mouth.

[Sizzle Flambé]

you are the one who has come over here wanting to get people here involved in taking your side in your disputes

Wrong. I haven't asked anyone to take my side in disputes. Look again. I shared those first links as FYI, part of a self-introduction, no requests involved. People here demanded more info from me; that wasn't my demanding support from them. Even Dave Seals, I just started out saying NAFPS "might perhaps pay closer attention" to him; so see whether he fits your own criteria after your own investigation. At no point did I ask, invite, or suggest that people should come over to alt.native and jump into a mudfight, nor say to join my side of one.

By all means stay out of that. Take the info you need for NAFPS's purposes, leave the rest, and go do your own research on FAKE INDIAN AUTHORS and the like.

But no, you want to burrow further into the ohhh-so-naaassty mudfighting? Dig up those links instead to post here? Well, then, why feign shock and disgust? You made your choice.

But I find it hypocritical that the very thing "well respected elder" Monica is defended for, becomes accusations turned the other way. That is, it was "mud slinging" of me to point out that she'd been mud slinging at other people!

that you would use this woman's murder as a tool for your petty harrassment and retaliation is completely reprehensible to me.

<http://groups.google.com/group/alt.native/msg/7c05d7da34c346dd>

Um, monica... you are the one who dragged alt.native business 'outside'. But how do you really think this makes *you* look? These things you are posting to 'get back' at Sizzle contain words that strongly apply to your own 'morbid fascination' with Anna Mae's death.

It reminds me of the phrase... cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Are you trying another tactic to scare me away from the Anna Mae story daisy mae? Won't work.

Monica is one of Dave Seals's fellow ghouls, you see.

[Cetan]

but you are the one bringing your fight over here, no one else is. We have repeatedly told you what NAFPS is for. As for your comment
"As to your other complaints, what I posted first about "Native American author" David Seals was that he was someone "to whom NAFPS might perhaps pay closer attention."
(NAFPS as a group could have taken some initiative at that point, done your own checking around instead of sitting back on your hind ends waiting to be served on a silver platter, but no.)"
this board is just a group of individuals who post; it is up to the individuals who have questions or information to post a thread, usually in the research needed category outlining their questions/concerns/evidence and then others will respond. So if you are so convinced the someone is a fraud make a thread and present your information and then people will be glad to respond.

[earthw7]

Well said Cetan, if get invovled in she said he said they said it ends without getting to the truth.

It has happen in the past were people bring information from another board here to fight and it always end
in just that he said she said.

Just post the evidence and we will research it

[Sizzle Flambé]

Well said Cetan, if get invovled in she said he said they said it ends without getting to the truth.

It has happen in the past were people bring information from another board here to fight and it always end
in just that he said she said.

Just post the evidence and we will research it

With due respect, earth7, that has not been my experience here.

For instance, in sourced quotes at the link I posted, <http://tinyurl.com/daveseals-faux-indian>, or which you can find by Googling, "Native American author" Seals is variously identified as Huron or Cheyenne (not as "both" in any source), "Cheyenne" when his Cheyenne-character books came out, and "Huron" later on. Then gradually both tribal claims fade away; neither is in his current Wikipedia puff-piece entry. Yet he's still listed among "Native American authors".

No-one here has hinted at researching this oddity or the reason for the shift. (May I suggest the Cheyenne claim simply became untenable first? And then the 1990 Act made such lying-for-profit a federal crime?)

No-one is stopping you from researching the matter!

Don't pretend I'm holding you back by not posting the magic word on the proper forum.

Fire when ready, Gridley!

[Sizzle Flambé]

...that you would use this woman's murder as a tool for your petty harrassment and retaliation...

Have you been looking up how Dave Seals and Monica Charles have used her, literally for years?

And have you found out some of why Anna Mae's daughter complained about it?

Well, here's a more recent example:

<http://groups.google.com/group/alt.native/browse_frm/thread/72a3d50d5f4cf062>

"Ward Churchill in South Dakota, 1975-76"

Yeah... Dave "O'Brien" Seals pins the murder on Ward Churchill....

Likewise, Monica Charles keeps saying that Richard Two Elk (who posts on alt.native) was "the FBI's first choice as the shooter" -- which can be taken two ways, since one of her many conflicting contentions has been that the FBI killed Anna Mae.

And even a newbie walking into the newsgroup can get slapped with Monica's all-purpose accusation that they are part of the FBI coverup of Anna Mae's murder.

So what you are complaining about, Moma, is return fire. Which I'll take about as seriously as anyone does who is returning fire, when you have uttered no reproach to those who opened fire in the first place.

[Cetan]

Well said Cetan, if get invovled in she said he said they said it ends without getting to the truth.

It has happen in the past were people bring information from another board here to fight and it always end
in just that he said she said.

Just post the evidence and we will research it

With due respect, earth7, that has not been my experience here.

For instance, in sourced quotes at the link I posted, <http://tinyurl.com.daveseals-faux-indian>, or which you can find by Googling, "Native American author" Seals is variously identified as Huron or Cheyenne (not as "both" in any source), "Cheyenne" when his Cheyenne-character books came out, and "Huron" later on. Then gradually both tribal claims fade away; neither is in his current Wikipedia puff-piece entry. Yet he's still listed among "Native American authors".

No-one here has hinted at researching this oddity or the reason for the shift. (May I suggest the Cheyenne claim simply became untenable first? And then the 1990 Act made such lying-for-profit a federal crime?)

No-one is stopping you from researching the matter!

Don't pretend I'm holding you back by not posting the magic word on the proper forum.

Fire when ready, Gridley!

the link you posted doesnt work and quite honestly I have no problems with David Seals and you are the first person here who has questioned him

[Sizzle Flambé]

the link you posted doesnt work

Missing slash. Fixed. <http://tinyurl.com/daveseals-faux-indian>

and quite honestly I have no problems with David Seals

I can tell you're a mellow fellow. But personal problems aren't the issue, are they?

and you are the first person here who has questioned him

Someone had to be the first. So, is it engraved in stone that we all sit on our hands now until a second person comes along to question him? Or a third? How many questions does it take to, um, raise the question?

The really big excuse for not even looking at him is that he's not NAFPS's concern at all unless his authorship veers from comedy novels into shamanism, right?

<http://www.examiner.com/x-7919-Phoenix-Native-American-Shamanism-Examiner>
David Seals
Phoenix Native American Shamanism Examiner

Next excuse...?

[Moma_porcupine]

Oh for Petes sake... Ok Ok ...It seems Seals has some unusual ideas and he is a bit confused about where he came from ..... I'm not sure if this makes him a worthy topic for research or not , and personally, I wouldn't bother starting a thread on him based on what I found, but it is more than a little odd .   

Apparently Seals claims his family was abuducted by aliens, their baby boy ( himself ? ) first showed up out of nowhere ? during an alien encounter ( or something ) and these same alien monsters are also blamed for killing his 4 year old sister.

I'm not sure how this fits with his claims to be Huron or Cheyenne... His Mom's Dad is said to be Irish and it sounds like his Dad was in the military, and he grew up partly in Japan. His sister is said to have been blond, though that doesn't prove the family didn't have some native blood ... It's not unusual for mixed blood children to be blond... 

Must be read to be believed... and even then I gotta wonder - did he really write this ?  

http://www.frontierscience.us/article119.html

ABDUCTION AT ROSWELL by David Seals

Maybe all the people you don't like are alien implants...

That would explain a lot ...

If you really think it needs researching start a thread... 

[Sizzle Flambé]

<http://www.frontierscience.us/article119.html>

Journal of Frontier Science: ABDUCTION AT ROSWELL by David Seals

"By the 90s, David was ready to go back to the 40s before he was born, thanks to decades of research, ceremonies with Indians, sessions with psychics, and memories of many hours of conversations with his mother and father. He was confident he had found a realistic way to remember and reconstruct what really happened at Roswell, and, even more challenging, to see it from the point of view of the Enemies!"

Yes, indeedy, David Seals in his family memoir -- straight biography, not comedy -- now tells about alien abductions from the aliens' viewpoint!

No wonder he also knows the whole truth about the Anna Mae Pictou-Aquash murder case, and every other historical mystery!

So as a matter of credibility: would an alien-abduction loon also make up Indian ancestry?

Meanwhile, Monica's doing a cycle of Anna Mae Conspiracy Theory (FBI-did-it) reposts today. Catch some:

<http://groups.google.com/group/alt.native/msg/54f4e74c417ff258>

<http://groups.google.com/group/alt.native/msg/fd0c0e489835cfa0>

<http://groups.google.com/group/alt.native/msg/5b70de65ea4ba683>

And again, compare the remarks by Anna Mae's daughter:

<http://indigenouswomenforjustice.org/seals.html>

[Cetan]

What is so wrong with Monica's posts - unless you dont believe the Feds had anything to do with Anna Mae's murder. Trying to blame the murder on AIM has been one of the fed's tactics since way back, read the history on Cointelpro, they have been trying to discredit AIM since back in the day. Do you believe the Feds now?

[Sizzle Flambé]

What is so wrong with Monica's posts - unless you dont believe the Feds had anything to do with Anna Mae's murder. Trying to blame the murder on AIM has been one of the fed's tactics since way back, read the history on Cointelpro, they have been trying to discredit AIM since back in the day. Do you believe the Feds now?

Draw out your logic for me, Cetan.

"Trying to blame the murder on AIM" -- yeah, Anna Mae had been held prisoner by AIM members, transported by AIM members to Pine Ridge, last seen with AIM members, and then found dead. There's a certain suspicion that grows in most people's minds, cops included, after a chain of events like that.

"Trying to discredit AIM" -- to be sure, and not entirely for the reason above. Some federal agents died too. And on the other side a lot of AIM members. No love lost. But then it's also an honest opinion, isn't it? The FBI really does think AIM shouldn't be trusted as far as its collective membership could be picked up and thrown. (Feeling's mutual, right?)

"The Feds had anything to do with Anna Mae's murder" -- how would this follow?

This sounds more like AIM is trying to discredit the FBI, AIM is trying to blame the murder on the FBI -- and with no equivalent basis, since it wasn't the FBI toting Anna Mae around as a prisoner and up to Pine Ridge and having those meetings. The table doesn't turn around so easy.

No organization pulled the trigger. Some human being did. It's the nature of things that other human beings in the same organization never knew it, and never believed it. So the forensics aren't guided by what the organization members firmly believe to be true or false. I'm sorry that distresses you, Cetan, but there it is.

[Superdog]

Yes, Philbert Bono's just a "mystic" character by David Seals. And Don Juan was just a "mystic" character by Carlos Castaneda -- and Agnes Whistling Elk et alia were just "mystic" characters by Lynn Andrews -- and those were popular too, Moma Porcupine, so where's the harm, really, eh? You have no problem with any of them?

I know I'm coming in way late and all....but have you read Powwow Highway???

I realllllllly don't see the correlation at all.

ok sorry...random I know.  Back to my popcorn.

Superdog

[Sizzle Flambé]

Yes, Superdog, that's a "comedy"... and supposedly this isn't:
<http://www.examiner.com/x-7919-Phoenix-Native-American-Shamanism-Examiner>

David Seals
Phoenix Native American Shamanism Examiner

Are we all caught up now?