Sizzle Flambé says Hello

[bls926]

The FBI was definitely responsible for Anna Mae's death, regardless of who pulled the trigger. Whether an agent committed the murder or a member of AIM, the FBI is to blame. I don't know who did it. I do know that the FBI had created an environment of doubt, fear, mistrust, and paranoia thru their cointelpro operations. THE FBI is the domestic version of the CIA. Their actions at home, especially during the 70's, are no different than the CIA's actions around the world. They create problems where none exist and intensify existing problems. It's time the FBI was held accountable.

[Sizzle Flambé]

The FBI was definitely responsible for Anna Mae's death, regardless of who pulled the trigger. Whether an agent committed the murder or a member of AIM, the FBI is to blame. I don't know who did it. I do know that the FBI had created an environment of doubt, fear, mistrust, and paranoia thru their cointelpro operations. THE FBI is the domestic version of the CIA. Their actions at home, especially during the 70's, are no different than the CIA's actions around the world. They create problems where none exist and intensify existing problems. It's time the FBI was held accountable.

I know just what you mean, bls926 ! Why, I am SO stressed out by the environment of doubt, fear, mistrust, and paranoia right here on this very thread that there's no knowing what *I* may do next! Smash a store window, or pee on a cop, or bite a dog, or something! And when they arrest me, I'll tell them, "NAFPS is to blame!" So pack a little night bag and mark your lawyer's number on your forearm, and be ready to go quietly when they come to your door, okay? And remember these words: "DON'T TAZE ME, BRO!"

[Moma_porcupine]

And so... Sizzle

You came here announcing your tussle with Betsy Ashby brought you here.
 
Your concerns about Ashby seem to have been shelved almost immediately and you moved onto trying to discredit Monica.

Then you began trying to discredit Monica's friend Seals, but you don't seem concerned enough about him somehow violating public trust or misrepresenting Native people to actually start a thread on him.

Apparently your interest in Seals only continues as long as it takes to establish that he is an odd ball , or possibly of extraterestrial descent,  as now  Seals is being used to once again try and discredit Monica by pointing out her questionable judgment in choosing freinds.

And you seem real interested in using this to try and discredit Monica's posts containing information skeptical of the FBI involvement in Anna Mae's murder. You keep coming back to that .

Why ?

Who's interests do you imagine you are serving here ?

Must be one of those illusions of cyberspace but Gosh you do remind me of Betsy Ashby. Quite a bit... I must be loosing my marbles...

[Cetan]

The only sizzle I smell here is bacon, oink oink

[bls926]

The FBI was definitely responsible for Anna Mae's death, regardless of who pulled the trigger. Whether an agent committed the murder or a member of AIM, the FBI is to blame. I don't know who did it. I do know that the FBI had created an environment of doubt, fear, mistrust, and paranoia thru their cointelpro operations. THE FBI is the domestic version of the CIA. Their actions at home, especially during the 70's, are no different than the CIA's actions around the world. They create problems where none exist and intensify existing problems. It's time the FBI was held accountable.

I know just what you mean, bls926 ! Why, I am SO stressed out by the environment of doubt, fear, mistrust, and paranoia right here on this very thread that there's no knowing what *I* may do next! Smash a store window, or pee on a cop, or bite a dog, or something! And when they arrest me, I'll tell them, "NAFPS is to blame!" So pack a little night bag and mark your lawyer's number on your forearm, and be ready to go quietly when they come to your door, okay? And remember these words: "DON'T TAZE ME, BRO!"

Your sarcasm is noted. You may think you're being witty, but you aren't. Your comments are juvenile, immature. All you've accomplished is to show your complete lack of understanding.

Why are you here? 

[Sizzle Flambé]

You came here announcing your tussle with Betsy Ashby brought you here.

Nope.

Joining you at Debbie's invitation, after tussling with Betsy Ashby in the Usenet newsgroup alt.native for a while.

(Post hoc est non propter hoc.)

Your concerns about Ashby seem to have been shelved almost immediately and you moved onto trying to discredit Monica.

You vastly overstate my investment in cause advocacy here. This is my self-introduction thread, so I shared as FYI the sorts of things I've been writing. Poems and "object-library"-type Usenet tidbits. I wasn't asking anyone to DO anything about them!

Some people complain that's not properly evidential. Look again. I wasn't presenting it as an evidential case.

Then you began trying to discredit Monica's friend Seals, but you don't seem concerned enough about him somehow violating public trust or misrepresenting Native people to actually start a thread on him.

How diffident must one *be* to say "NAFPS might perhaps pay closer attention" to Seals?

Am *I* the Boss of *you*?

You are now aware of Seals; of who he is; of what he does.

If you feel no concern whatsoever about him, then my posting to every other forum here, and jumping up and down and screaming, wouldn't make a difference, would it? So what would be the point?

And if you DO feel concern, then you don't need me anyway to take action. Good luck.

Apparently your interest in Seals only continues as long as it takes to establish that he is an odd ball, or possibly of extraterrestrial descent, as now Seals is being used to once again try and discredit Monica by pointing out her questionable judgment in choosing friends.

The Monica-and-Seals-to-Anna-Mae-Conspiracy-Theory links to that stinging rebuke from Anna Mae's daughter exist quite independently of Seals's alien-abduction lunacy. Their ghoulishness doesn't depend on his Little Grey Men.

And you seem real interested in using this to try and discredit Monica's posts containing information skeptical of the FBI involvement in Anna Mae's murder. You keep coming back to that .

Why ?

I pointed you to them without telling you to believe or disbelieve, to laugh or cry.

Recall how you said, "use this woman's murder as a tool for ... petty harrassment and retaliation" ?

Monica Charles sets the stage for the Grand FBI Conspiracy, yes... and then accuses the people she dislikes on the newsgroup of being part of that conspiracy. Senator Joe McCarthy, writ small.

[Sizzle Flambé]

The only sizzle I smell here is bacon, oink oink

And look! There's Roy Cohn!

[Superdog]

Yes, Superdog, that's a "comedy"... and supposedly this isn't:
<http://www.examiner.com/x-7919-Phoenix-Native-American-Shamanism-Examiner>

David Seals
Phoenix Native American Shamanism Examiner

Are we all caught up now?

still not seeing it.....just hard to imagine anyone interpreting Philbert as mystical anything.  If anything, I'd classify the character as a holy fool.  But oh well....I'm just a fan of the book (and movie...Gary Farmer played a great character), don't know much about David Seals, but the book was a great read and if there's anyone in modern times that gets Indian humor in literature he and Sherman Alexie both seem to have a knack for it.  But back to your discussion, i'm sidetracking it.

Superdog

[Moma_porcupine]

Sizzle

This is my self-introduction thread, so I shared as FYI the sorts of things I've been writing. Poems and "object-library"-type Usenet tidbits.

Right, so the question bls926 asked you

Why are you here?

And the question i asked

You seem real interested in using this to try and discredit Monica's posts containing information skeptical of the FBI involvement in Anna Mae's murder. You keep coming back to that .

Why ?

Who's interests do you imagine you are serving here ?

Are entirely relevent to your introduction and explaining who you are, and what you are hoping to accomplish here.

I would add to that

What do you hope to acomplish here? What are your goals?

I find it really odd you keep side steping those direct and relevent questions.

And why are you so anxious for someone else to be responsible to start a thread on Seals?

You obviously do feel some concerns. Why don't you want to take responsibility and take action ? What are you trying to set up?

I'm not sure if I am hearing the sizzle of bacon or the russle of feathers and crashing and bashing you hear when there is a blood crazed weasle in the hen house, but something here isn't adding up.

I wasn't able to do a thorough check of all the posts over at alt.native but it looks like Sizzle showed up there as a regular poster a couple weeks before Besty Ashby AKA Guardian ( last mid May early June ) . Sizzle seems to spend most of their time posting on pagan and wiccan message boards ,and I don't see where they seem to have much interest in anything else ... At least not under that user name. Probably just my over suspisious mind at work, but I gotta wonder just what the connection is between Sizzle and Betsy ....

Sizzle maybe you could explain this?

Sizzle, this is just my own opinion , but if you want to change peoples personalities, the only real hope you have of doing that is by earning their respect and setting a more efficent example and inspiring people. Bashing people into submission never works for very long and takes too much energy.

If you just want to retaliate for some personal injury, that probably isn't going to be welcome here.

If you want to lay out some evidence about how someone might be seriously misleading the public in some way , it seems the way to do this would be to  start a thread. As it is, it seems you are making a lot of  underhanded attacks which aren't very substantial, and you avoid taking responsibility for this "because it is just your introduction thread."

I think you need to clearly define your targets and explain why you feel this is important , and what you hope to do about it by posting here.....

Sizzle

Monica Charles sets the stage for the Grand FBI Conspiracy, yes... and then accuses the people she dislikes on the newsgroup of being part of that conspiracy.

There is lots of reasonable people who have some legitimate questions about the case against members of AIM in the death of Anna Mae.

Even if Monica sometimes discredits herself by engaging in what look like senseless petty personal attacks, and frivolously accusing people of being FBI ...  and even if Dave Seals did write that stuff about alien abductions, the unexplained and seemingly unexplored holes in the case are still there, and appear to be very real.

I see Monic is recomending the book   THE UNQUIET GRAVE by Steve
Hendricks.

There is also a link hear to what sounds like a report of the court case against Arlo Looking Cloud.

http://www.grahamdefense.org/trial1.htm

If this is accurate and not altered, even with Looking Clouds confession,  and assuming this confession wasn't gained under some kind of threat,  it leaves so many unanswered questions to leave them unexplored in a court of law sounds completely negligent.  This wouldn't be the first time i have seen people involved in what happened at Wounded Knee say things that seem to defy logic. I have to wonder if some people don't feel safe to tell the truth. I am not familiar with all the details of the case , or what is known for sure and what may have been fabricated, but there is so many Native people who have very real reasons to mistrust the justice system, it seems like the justice system needs to take the time to explore all possibilities, and make a real effort to be sure everyone involved feels justice has been served. If these questions are not answered i find that completely outrageous and unacceptable.

[Sizzle Flambé]

"Why are you here?" "What do you hope to acomplish here? What are your goals?"

I answered these with my very first words on the forum: "Joining you at Debbie's invitation".

As I'd previously added NAFPS to my Culture Vulture Links and had been vigorously defending NAFPS and Al Carroll from Betsy Ashby's and Monica Charles's "White Nationalist" accusations on alt.native, it was clear I was already aware of NAFPS before that (and kindly inclined), so Debbie extended the invitation. I didn't come hat in hand needing anything from you.

You help further answer your own question below.

I wasn't able to do a thorough check of all the posts over at alt.native but it looks like Sizzle showed up there as a regular poster a couple weeks before Betsy Ashby AKA Guardian ( last mid May early June ) . Sizzle seems to spend most of their time posting on pagan and wiccan message boards ,and I don't see where they seem to have much interest in anything else ... At least not under that user name. Probably just my over suspicious mind at work, but I gotta wonder just what the connection is between Sizzle and Betsy ....

^{(bolding added)}

Very simply, Moma, I'm a poet. I respond to things with poetry. A troll named Sidney Lambe afflicted alt.religion.wicca; I responded with a song/poem cycle, and got other members involved contributing their own pieces to it. Here's the contents/links page: <http://tinyurl.com/sidney-lambe>.

I'd already been on alt.native for a while, hanging with friends, when Betsy Ashby barged in and started bashing people, including Norah RunningWolf, a great lady for whom I'd already developed the greatest respect (and who deserves it). Ooh. Not nice. Here comes a poem about it: "Bashby" <http://tinyurl.com/bashby2>.

But under continued harassment, Norah's husband died, and Norah continued -- still continues! -- being harassed in her time of grief. Monica Charles even made a point of mocking her grief, and *that* is what prompted the poem of "Malica Charnel": <http://tinyurl.com/malica-charnel>.

These are *poems*. Verbal artwork. They don't require anyone to DO anything.

Now, having been invited here, after defending NAFPS publicly, I shared some of my work by way of self-introduction.

That's not waving any banner and shouting "follow me".

That's not presenting "evidence" in any quasi-court proceeding.

As you yourself point out, this isn't the forum for that, anyway.

Sizzle, this is just my own opinion , but if you want to change peoples personalities,...

Whoa! This ain't Orwell's 1984, and I'm not O'Brien!

If you just want to retaliate for some personal injury, that probably isn't going to be welcome here.

I have not been personally injured. I am hale and whole. Outraged at how innocents have been abused, yes, but if you are not, then I pity your shriveled soul.

If you want to lay out some evidence about how someone might be seriously misleading the public in some way, it seems the way to do this would be to start a thread.

Feel free, if that is your strength and skill. You now know where to look.

I see Monic is recomending the book THE UNQUIET GRAVE by Steve Hendricks.

There is also a link hear to what sounds like a report of the court case against Arlo Looking Cloud.

http://www.grahamdefense.org/trial1.htm

If this is accurate and not altered, ...

That's the big "IF".

| [Monica] Charles emerges as one of the few and
| loudest supporters of John Graham in recent years,
| posting discredited and false information online
| and drawing the attention of defense attorneys
| and federal authorities.
  -- News From Indian Country
     <http://tinyurl.com/annie-mae-timeline-iii-3>

| Monica Charles ... becomes "a person of interest"
| and the focus of some investigators because of
| information and statements she posts on the internet
| that appear to be an intentional attempt to create
| confusion in the Aquash and Peltier cases, a commonly
| used tactic by AIM leaders or supporters over the
| years to mislead journalists and the public.
  -- News From Indian Country
     <http://tinyurl.com/annie-mae-timeline-iv-2>

[Sizzle Flambé]

This wouldn't be the first time i have seen people involved in what happened at Wounded Knee say things that seem to defy logic. I have to wonder if some people don't feel safe to tell the truth.

Some don't. But the coverup may not be in the direction you think it is.

Try reading <http://www.aim.org/aim-column/pbs-accused-of-distorting-indian-history/>.

[earthw7]

I still don't understand why this information is here on NAFPS

[Sizzle Flambé]

I still don't understand why this information is here on NAFPS

"Sizzle Flambé says Hello" could have stayed that first single post, a short intro with links to stuff I wrote. But people were interested in discussing it, so the questions/answers and demands/responses went on a bit. A thread is made by its participants. Congratulations, you and I together have now added another two posts to the length of this one.

Betsy Ashby and Monica Charles have attacked NAFPS online; Dave Seals makes common cause with them, has dubiously claimed tribal affiliations^* to be a "Native American Author", and cites his comedy novel about a shaman in his credentials to write about real shamanism. You think that might be of interest?

(Note Dave's own back-cover photo in front of an Apache sweat lodge. Nice beard!)

*_{But evaded answering direct questions whether he's enrolled, with replies like "Are you?" He also still uses the old term "Huron", which the Wyandotte Nation themselves "do not proclaim ourselves to be... in this day and age" -- per email telling me Seals is not enrolled there. But Seals doesn't claim he is Huron-Wendat, from Quebec....}

[earthw7]

So do what does an author have to do with selling ceremonies

[Cetan]

I still don't understand why this information is here on NAFPS

neither does anyone else