Author Topic: Chickamauga Cherokee, March on Washington, Charlie ThunderHawk  (Read 131646 times)

Re: Chickamauga Cherokee, March on Washington, Charlie ThunderHawk
« Reply #15 on: February 16, 2010, 12:09:57 am »
ah. missed the dates.  that is a bit odd though, bit much for pure coincidence of picking the same dates..
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apukjij

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Re: Chickamauga Cherokee, March on Washington, Charlie ThunderHawk
« Reply #16 on: February 16, 2010, 03:58:07 pm »
I heard back from David Cada, he confirmed that he is contact with the Dot Green and the Chickamunga historical club from florida, he feels that this protest they organized is a great starting point and he wants to build on that, he has flooded Facebook with soveran rhetoric inviting people to come march never telling anyone about the dot green and chickamunga connection.....

Offline Moma_porcupine

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Re: Chickamauga Cherokee, March on Washington, Charlie ThunderHawk
« Reply #17 on: February 16, 2010, 05:34:09 pm »
from Reply #8
Quote
We invite all Black Cherokees, all Mixed Blood Cherokees, all Cherokees who have been denied their rights by the Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma

Quote
we have been shoved around by the Federal Recognized Cherokees when we have as much right to be recognized as any of our brothers and sisters in Oklahoma

Quote
Mixed-blood Cherokees and the Cherokee Freedmen have been denied our rights and freedoms by the Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma.


Quote
The CNO continually denies that many of us even exist by saying that ALL Cherokees walked the Trail of Tears during the forced removal of our people by the United States Government. Even history proclaims that many Cherokees hid in the mountains and valleys to escape that dreadful time in our history as a race of people.

How strange...

These people are demanding recognition, but recognition as what, and by who?

If they can prove descent from a person who was Cherokee , are they wanting a note from the President of the United States acknowldging that their genealogy is correct ?

If they can't actually prove one of their ancestors is Cherokee, are they hoping they can get some authoritative people to say their genealogy tracks back to a Cherokee ancestor... and even if they can't prove it, then they don't need to worry about that ?

Are they wanting to see the general requirements for federal recognition as a tribe changed, so that proof of political and cultural continuity is no longer required, and any group of people with any amount of Native blood came claim to be their own Nation?

Is it only the identity of indigenous Nations thats up for grabs, or is the political identity of European Nations such as England , Germany France and Spain on the table to?  Being Queen of one of these countries might be fun and finacially lucrative... Is the position open to any NDN  person who can prove they have ancestry from one of these countries?

Or are they thinking only people who believe they are Cherokee descendents have the privilidge of getting together for a few potluck dinners, and declaring themself an independant Nation ?

If these rights to recognition as a Nation are not a special privilidge held only by people who imagine themselves to be Cherokee descendents, then would this right to declare Nationhood also extend to any small town in America, which has a few families which trace descent from Pocahontas...?

And I see this article mentions the CNO three times as being to blame for not recognizing these people.

If tribal Nations have membership limitations because they feel it isn't practical to try to reintegrate everyone who has some descent, and these people want to criticize this, then why are they repeatedly criticizing the CNO, which has the most inclusive membership criteria?

If these demands were really based on descendents with Cherokee blood being excluded from being enrolled citizens , it seems it would be the tribes with the most exclusive membership policies, like the UKB , who would be criticized most strongly... But it isn't...

It looks more like it's more that the generosity and inclusiveness of the CNO is percieved as easiest barrier to try to bust their way through.

Quote
now the CNO would attempt to strip us of even being able to say that we are Cherokee when may of us have more of that same Blood flowing through our veins than some of those that are on the Rolls that the BIA goes by. I am not saying that anyone having ¼ Indian Blood is anymore Indian that someone who only has 1/8 Indian Blood, but I do believe just as Dragging Canoe said, ‘That if you have one drop of Cherokee Blood, then you are Cherokee through and through.

The importance Cherokee communities seem to put on maintaining relationships with descendents seems like a good thing, but i doubt this inclusiveness was ever in response to a large group of people who popped up out of nowhere, with no connection to any living Cherokee families, who were claiming the right to all resources belonging to Cherokee people...

I have to wonder what privilidges these people imagine they would have, if they were enrolled in the CNO, that an unenrolled descendent would be denied?

I'm not at all clear what it is they are demanding...?
« Last Edit: February 16, 2010, 05:37:59 pm by Moma_porcupine »

Offline Superdog

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Re: Chickamauga Cherokee, March on Washington, Charlie ThunderHawk
« Reply #18 on: February 16, 2010, 05:43:16 pm »
It might make you feel better to know that, even while trying to shamelessly capitalize on the Freedmen issue, the march will likely be a huge flop few people will notice. Green Dot For Earth seems to be one guy, a very naive guy (who never even says his name on the site) talking about Gandhi and Nostradamus and who knows what else in one huge confused mess of random ideas. His blog shows little activity, and his fundraising acvtivities for the march show a call for $100,000 of which they've raised...zero. Not a single penny from a single person.

In his own words:

"My life has not been all that honorable and there are those who will investigate me to embarrass me before you to discredit this movement any means possible. No complaints, just facts for you to know that I am human like you are and I have no agenda other than the one you see here. I am the voice of your hearts and as such, I am an enormous threat to what the establishment needs to keep the world as it is today."

I actually feel sorry for him. The so called Chickamaugas should be ashamed for taking advantage of him.

The so called Chickamaugas include at least one leader who claims to be not Cherokee, but a Melungeon looking for his roots "with a Cherokee connection somewhere" he'd heard.
http://74.125.113.132/search?q=cache:c6GExRUEB-EJ:genforum.genealogy.com/melungeon/+%22Kermit+Manis&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

His facebook page. Put down anything you're drinking before you look at this. I couldn't help but think of the drummer from Cheap Trick. (OK, showing my age there.)
http://www.facebook.com/people/Kermit-Manis/1649702257

It's also pretty amusing this bunch invents a quote from Draggin Canoe about the Trail of Tear. He died more than 40 years before it.

Actually the Green Dot for Earth site is operated by a man named Terry Nichols (not Terry Lynn Nichols of the Oklahoma bombing...just being clear) who "discovered" that he was Native American and then went on a vision quest with some unnamed "shaman" and thinks this is the fulfillment of his vision.

http://www.greendotforearth.org/about.htm

But I definitely agree...very naive.
Both sites, the Chickimauga site and the Green Dot for Earth site, give very different reasons for their "march" in August.  One talks about being denied rights by the Cherokee Nation, the other is talking about rights for all Natives....I don't think they have their stories straight at all.

I also agree that this will be a flop although they have a lot of propaganda on both sites claiming they have so much support they had to increase the event to two days, there will be other protests in state capitols all over the US, as well as worldwide, etc, etc.

I saw a petition where they are asking for a million people to commit....so far...70.  When you read it...they're all kind of lost people who have no clue.

The common ground both sites seem to share is a shameless exploitation for what they're about.  They both have online stores with various items...clothes, coffee cups, underwear....all for sale, all with the same "patch" somehow incorporated.

IMHO, they're shooting their "ruse" in the foot by putting on this big show and I hope they try to carry it out all the way so they become truly exposed for what they are....opportunists rewriting history for their own benefit.

Superdog

Re: Chickamauga Cherokee, March on Washington, Charlie ThunderHawk
« Reply #19 on: February 16, 2010, 05:46:05 pm »

I'm not at all clear what it is they are demanding...?

I believe they are demanding this:

Are they wanting to see the general requirements for federal recognition as a tribe changed, so that proof of political and cultural continuity is no longer required, and any group of people with any amount of Native blood came claim to be their own Nation?
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apukjij

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Re: Chickamauga Cherokee, March on Washington, Charlie ThunderHawk
« Reply #20 on: February 16, 2010, 06:40:03 pm »
i agree, this groups claims are dubious bordering on spurious, and takes away from those legitimate groups fighting for status, the Qalipu First Nation is a good example of that, where-by to get status by the canadian govt, you have to prove direct ancestry to a relation that is listed as L'nu on the 1945 Census. i think that a separate thread is needed here.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2010, 03:38:29 am by apukjij »

Offline BlackWolf

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Re: Chickamauga Cherokee, March on Washington, Charlie ThunderHawk
« Reply #21 on: February 16, 2010, 08:40:32 pm »

Critter said
Quote
It's confusing to me, because they don't mention in this march to Washington that it is about getting accepted by tribe for their 'heritage', which is what the first march to Washington (that was posted) was obviously about.

This is what I don't understand either.  How is it exactly that they want to get accepted or have the right to practice their alledged Cherokee heritage??? Do they want Principle Chief Smith to go in front of the media and make an offical proclamation and say its "OK" for them to practice their Cherokee  heritage?  Do they want to show up in Oklahoma and get the Red Carpet Treatment and for everyone there to treat them as if they are Cherokee???  I don't understand what they want?  If anybody should be ticked off, its enrolled Cherokees having these people misrepresent us all the time!

There's no law saying they can't learn about Cherokee culture, cook Cherokee food, learn how to shoot a blowgun, take clases on how to grow Traditional Cherokee food, etc.  As far as I know nobody is going to show up at their doorstep and demand that they stop doing this.  Their demands are very elusive.  I get the feeling that they don't even know what they want.

Offline Defend the Sacred

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Re: Chickamauga Cherokee, March on Washington, Charlie ThunderHawk
« Reply #22 on: February 16, 2010, 09:37:37 pm »
As the thread is still short, and the posts on "Thunderhawk" and the background info on the "Chickamuaga Cherokee" are relevant, I've just retitled this thread rather than split it.

I wrote Dave Cada and he confirmed that "No Moccasins" is one of the DC organizers. I don't think he knew that she was advertising this as being about gaining "rights" for "Cherokee" heritage groups. He said he's spoken to her about this being a general protest/rally/performance and the need to present it as such. (ETA: However, as of this edit, the Chickamauga websites have not been changed to reflect any of this.)

Some of the people involved are also calling this: NATIVE BLOOD DRIVE AUGUST 18-19, LINCOLN MEMORIAL

This is another page "No Moccasins" has set up about it:
http://www.facebook.com/pages/NATIVE-BLOOD-DRIVE-AUGUST-18-19-LINCOLN-MEMORIAL/455081800014

They are looking for "Native and Non-Native" performers to appear at the event. Here's a picture of one of the groups who are slated to appear: Thunder with the Hands Drum Group

Photo posted by: William Lawson who also belongs to the Chickamauga Cherokee Teaching Council on facebook.

Here they assert that the Sweat Lodge is part of their religion: http://www.facebook.com/notes/chickamauga-cherokee-teaching-council/the-sweat-bathsweat-lodge/310536243356

Some on the page express frustration that a rumoured gggrandmother is not enough for them to enroll in a Nation. Some in this thread express concern that legal protections for traditional ceremonies are preventing, or could prevent, those with distant, or rumoured Cherokee heritage from holding sweat lodges. This response was interesting:

Quote
Chickamauga Cherokee Teaching Council
osiyo...there is a large group of us who are trying to change many of these things, so that, Native Americans have equal rights under the Law. Check out the efforts of 100's of groups, tnes of thousands of people:
http://www.facebook.com/pages/NATIVE-BLOOD-DRIVE-AUGUST-18-19-LINCOLN-MEMORIAL/455081800014?ref=ts#!/pages/NATIVE-BLOOD-DRIVE-AUGUST-18-19-LINCOLN-MEMORIAL/455081800014
4 hours ago
« Last Edit: July 18, 2014, 10:50:26 pm by Kathryn »

Offline Paul123

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Re: Chickamauga Cherokee, March on Washington, Charlie ThunderHawk
« Reply #23 on: February 17, 2010, 01:51:22 am »
They even have their own policeforce if you can beleive that. 
http://www.chickamaugacherokee.org/HTMLFILES/welcome.htm

It seems to me like that would be considered illegal to do ( Police Impersonation ) under federal and state law, especially since the public over there probably doesn't know that their not a legit tribe and that they are not real police officers.  I can only imagine what their so called police officers actually do. Many Real tribes do have their own police force and thats where the confusion might come into play.

As you can see on their website, they are very serious about what they are doing. 




I had looked (on the web) at this Police dept. about 6 months ago and wondered the same thing.
Now the link showing the "Tribal Officers" is not working.
I did a Google earth for their address and wondered if their Police dept. only has jurisdiction at that address. Also the names of most all of their "Officers" have the same last name. Hummm a family living in a typical Florida neighborhood that are ALL Tribal Police Officers. I wondered if any of them would be dumb enough to flash their really cool looking badge to a REAL cop if they got caught speeding???

 http://maps.google.com/maps?q=1352+East+Lombardy+Drive,+Deltona,+FL+32725&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hq=&hnear=1352+E+Lombardy+Dr,+Deltona,+FL+32725&gl=us&ei=z0d7S6_qD9CztgfftqXPCg&sa=X&oi=geocode_result&ct=title&resnum=1&ved=0CAgQ8gEwAA

Just to be clear.
This group is a prime example of the fakes that I have said all a long that the "Task Force" should be going after.





Offline lostcherokee

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Re: Chickamauga Cherokee, March on Washington, Charlie ThunderHawk
« Reply #24 on: February 17, 2010, 07:04:38 am »
"No Moccasins" is or was briefly mentioned a few times in a thread here by myself.She is/was a member of the (SCN)The Southern Cherokee Nation of Ky.Was the one that had the petition in Texas for the Governor to recognize the (SCN)..

http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=931.0


Lost
« Last Edit: February 17, 2010, 07:09:01 am by lostcherokee »

Offline Unegv Waya

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Re: Chickamauga Cherokee, March on Washington, Charlie ThunderHawk
« Reply #25 on: February 17, 2010, 05:10:22 pm »
One question I've asked a few congressional reps about but never got a real to is why hasn't the feds recognized the Freedmen who do not have Cherokee blood as their own unique group/people.  Someone set me straight if I am wrong about this but as I understand it part of the reason the feds wanted the CN to take in several of the former slaves following the civil war was because the feds did not want to repatriate any of them or acknowledge them as US citizens.

I also understand that the CN was basically given "stewardship", for lack of a better term, over the Freedmen and the resources allocated for them because the feds at the time (back in 1866) did not believe that the Freedmen were capable of managing their own affairs.  At least, that's the impression I got from the few Freedmen I ever met.

I sent a letter to Rep. Watson about HR 2824 and HR 2761, asking her what had been done to assist the Freedmen with any difficulties they are experiencing due to their change in CN citizen status.  I never got a reply.  Since then I have looked at a lot of the business that has been presented to the congress and never once found even a proposal to do anything to assist the Freedmen directly.  Seems the only thing that ever went to congress were the two bills Watson submitted to punish the CN.   

In my mind that says that the sponsors of those bills were not acting in the Freedmen's best interest as they, the sponsors, are trying to portray.

Again, if I've got this wrong please set me straight.

wado
nvwatohiyadv

Offline BlackWolf

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Re: Chickamauga Cherokee, March on Washington, Charlie ThunderHawk
« Reply #26 on: February 17, 2010, 07:40:20 pm »
Whitewolf said

Quote
I sent a letter to Rep. Watson about HR 2824 and HR 2761, asking her what had been done to assist the Freedmen with any difficulties they are experiencing due to their change in CN citizen status.  I never got a reply.  Since then I have looked at a lot of the business that has been presented to the congress and never once found even a proposal to do anything to assist the Freedmen directly.  Seems the only thing that ever went to congress were the two bills Watson submitted to punish the CN.   

In my mind that says that the sponsors of those bills were not acting in the Freedmen's best interest as they, the sponsors, are trying to portray.

Again, if I've got this wrong please set me straight.

wado

But Whitewolf, what would make the Freedmen descendents any different from the millions of other descendents of slaves in this country?

Offline Defend the Sacred

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Re: Chickamauga Cherokee, March on Washington, Charlie ThunderHawk
« Reply #27 on: February 18, 2010, 10:33:34 pm »
I wrote Dave Cada and he confirmed that "No Moccasins" is one of the DC organizers. I don't think he knew that she was advertising this as being about gaining "rights" for "Cherokee" heritage groups. He said he's spoken to her about this being a general protest/rally/performance and the need to present it as such. (ETA: However, as of this edit, the Chickamauga websites have not been changed to reflect any of this.)

Websites still not changed. The march is still being represented as a protest against the CNO for not accepting heritage/hobbyist groups as Cherokee, claiming the CNO and other recognized tribes are oppressing them. Actually, they appear to have expanded the site since Cada spoke to them, posting pictures of people they expect to come. If you go to the rally page here: http://chickamaugacherokee.org/blood/ and click on Board of Directors, this is the page you get: http://chickamaugacherokee.org/council/ 

The picture of their "shaman" has been removed from the page, but the file name remains: "deerclanmother.jpg".  I found a cached version here:

I looked at "No Moccasins" photos on Facebook.
Particularly this one and this one.
Here she signs a post with:

"No Moccasins
With respect, I ask each of you viewing this page to go to the link provided and sign our Cherokee Petition for Federal Recognition.
www.chickamaugacherokee.org
Wado!
Mother No Moccasins, Shaman
April 3, 2009 at 3:20pm · Report"

Given that post, and the resemblance between the photographs, I'd say "No Moccasins" is the unnamed "Shaman", advertised in their bulletins as the one who will "bless the grounds" in Washington.



Additional confirmation found here: http://chickamaugacherokee.org/headmother/
----------------------------quote----------------------

HEAD MOTHER
MOTHER JEANIE  MCKILLIP
NO MOCCISAN WOMAN
---------------------------end quote-------------------
« Last Edit: July 18, 2014, 10:51:11 pm by Kathryn »

Offline softwind

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Re: Chickamauga Cherokee, March on Washington, Charlie ThunderHawk
« Reply #28 on: February 19, 2010, 06:18:42 pm »
I was just introduced to this web site today and am trying to bring my self up to date with what has been going on.
I do have information that I feel will be helpful with the Chickamauga group in FL.

I would like to bring everyone's attention to this web site:

Chickamaugacherokee.org

I would like to add some insight and information to this group, as I personally know some of the members of this so-called 'tribe'.

At the bottom of the web page you will find a single photo of a large drum. Under the drum it reads:
"Chief Night Hunter (Scott Mitchell) and his family will be drum at the event in Washington DC".

I know Scott. I have been to his home. He came by that drum last spring, by trading his small boat for it!
He knows no songs; he has no teacher to share the drum teachings.
He learns (if you can call it that) songs from CDs that he picks up at Pow Wows.
He showed up to an event in Ohio last summer as a paid drum group: he was a group of ONE!!!!
he carried the drum in, sat down next to some real drums, and began to sing.
Needless to say he was stopped! He alone sat there and tried to sing.

This man has no clue what he is doing, and now he is going to go to Washington DC with the Chickamauga Cherokee group, and will be portraying himself as a Chief, and a Deputy Sheriff no less.

Yes-- that's right; he is calling himself ( as well as others from this group), Deputy Sheriff. Please see link below.

http://chickamaugacherokee.org/police/

It only gets better! His wife is listed as Clan Mother. She is a white woman who knows nothing about native life.
If you were to ask her for moon teachings, she would say: " Well, it comes up every night, and sets every morning".

She has no clue what the heck she is talking about. She (nor her husband) have ever been to a real ceremony-- they don't know their own history or any of the true Cherokee ways.

Scott is Cherokee, but refuses to go t the real people of Cherokee to become registered, or to ask for help and teachings.
He refuses to learn the true ways of his ancestry. Even if this Chickamauga Cherokee band was the real deal, everything they have done and said discredits them completely.

Scott was asked not long ago how it was that he became Chief of this Clan. His response: "There was no one to fill the spot, so they asked me".

He has never meet the people in FL. his only contact with them has been by phone.
He was part of the group in KY. but left when he felt his kids were being miss treated.
Shortly after leaving this group in KY No Moccasin Women who was also a part of the KY. group left and went to FL.
She called him and asked him to join in FL.

Now Scott's wife has become Clan Mother of said Clan for the same reason-- guess they are keeping it in the family!
The country needs to know about these fake wing nuts! This march in Washington DC is a shame, and true native people are getting wrapped up in it.

Get the word out--it's a fake tribe with a real agenda, and it's not a good one!
As the day's go by I will post more of what I know I think all of you will find it unbelievable.

 

Offline Defend the Sacred

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Re: Chickamauga Cherokee, March on Washington, Charlie ThunderHawk
« Reply #29 on: February 19, 2010, 06:29:31 pm »
Inquiring minds want to know: OK, you don't have to be NDN to join their "tribe". But if you join, are you required to wear their seal on your butt? http://www.cafepress.com/chickamagua.430556309

And what if thongs make you uncomfortable when you're sitting at your drum? http://www.cafepress.com/chickamagua.430556310

Will those marching in Washington be required to wear the official tribal thongs?