Dang,, discussing what the definition of "is" is with you guys is more fun than discussing the Bible with a Jehovah's Witness and an Latter Days Saint at the same time.
Nope not really. BLS926 and I did say the exact same thing, but said it in different ways. I think BLS926 kept it short and sweet with you.
bls926
Nation and Tribe are interchangeable. EBCI, CNO, and UKB are Nations; you can also use Tribe. A Tribe has a common history, a continuous community, a nation-to-nation relationship with not only the Federal Government but with other Indian Nations.
Rattlebone
In reality referring to our nations as tribes is a misnomer, and I often times cringe at even using the word "tribe" in speaking of our nations. Referring to our nations as "tribes" to me belittles our confederacies, tribal governments etc that existed long before the coming of Europeans.
You know people call us Indians, and we even refer to ourselves as Indians; thing is are any of us from India?
In my opinion the colonial powers referred to us as tribes because they didn't want to fully accept us as sovereign powers even if they were signing treaties with us. This of course was carried on by the US government. Of course take into consideration they didn't even consider us human beings. In fact we were considered less then the African slaves they were bringing over here because we had no value to them. If you want to see just how NON human they seen us, try checking out the history of California and the "Indian shoots" they used to have here, that would wipe out entire tribes.
So in short, we can say Indian interchangeably with Native American. We can say tribe interchangeably with Nation. The thing here is that one is more correct then the other, and there are specific reasons why that is so, even if those terms are used interchangeably.
And to think, you guys told me that I am miss-informed (well I think ignorant was the term) as to what the definition of a Tribe is because I posted the USG's definition of it. ROFL
Well it was me that said you were ignorant of this
issue, but I was not saying you were an ignorant person.
The definition of ignorant is:
1. lacking in knowledge or training; unlearned: an ignorant man.
2. lacking knowledge or information as to a particular subject or fact: ignorant of quantum physics.
3. uninformed; unaware.
4. due to or showing lack of knowledge or training: an ignorant statement. When you made the statement that the Echota were a
tribe because they are not recognized, and would be a
nation when they were, did show ignorance on the definition of both issues no matter what side of the argument you want to take on this issue.
One thing about myself, is that I was at one time a student of Wendy Rose, who is a very well known and respected Native educator among a few other things. Though this does not make me any sort of expert on topics like this, I do feel I am more knowledgeable on certain things then other people because of it.
So when I point out things about my view points on things such as words and concepts such as tribes, nations etc; often times this comes from things I learned from Wendy Rose, and many other educators I have actually known in my life, or who's works I have studied.
I did this in an attempt to give you a greater understanding of certain things, and did so trying to use the best of my memory of what I was taught about such things.
I use this approach with people both NON NDN and NDN, along side of traditional things I have learned in person from elders and other traditional people I was blessed to have in my life.
What I see here is that there are many of us who have knowledge and experience of such things as being discussed here, but it seems to me that you try to discount what we try to tell you. It is almost as if you don't want answers, but rather want us to simply agree with you.
I do admit I don't always agree with everyone in this thread, but nobody here is out to prevent you or anyone else from acknowledging what ancestry you may have or honoring it by living as such. The only thing being pointed out here is that it should be done so without stepping over boundaries that might be harmful to legitimate tribes and NDN people. In this regards it seems as if the Echota are trying to step over those boundaries, and that is where the core problem is.
Through out this thread you guys keep saying things like "You just can't form a tribe". It has been said over and over in several different ways. But that still doesn't change the FACT that this has ALREADY been done. You just keep refusing to admit it by trying to convince me that they SHOULDN'T have done it.
Prove one instance where it has been done in which the federal government recognized the tribe as legitimate.
