Is this group for real? AIM PA

[taraverti]

Greetings.
I am new here, but I follow this topic for a while. And, to be honest, it was quiet amusing to read all this.
First of all I have to admit that I know these people from A.I.M. PA. Well, not very close, but good enough.
Roy Robertson aka Redthunder 1891 aka The Real Crazy Horse.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8j6q0KN4noU&feature=related


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZY4q2Z7W3Vk
http://www.youtube.com/user/crazyhorse1891
http://www.myspace.com/wanbligleska67

That means, you had a conversation with the head man of "A.I.M. PA", not very surprising that he talked nice about this group.
Roy claims to be Lakotha, but his ancestry is more on the "italien" side. He is not a skin. His only connection to what he calls Oyate are some of his friends.
There is not one skin in this "group", but therefor white people playing Indian. They feel very empowered with this A.I.M. title, but as a Grandfather of mine said, they act like a bunch of Boy Scouts going wild.
This group is a disgrace for the real A.I.M. and what it is all about, as well as for the native People here in this part of the country.
 Best regards
  Wacipi

That's been my impression, but I'm just a lowly PODIA , so my opinion don't count for much.

I won't be supporting them, though. IMHO, my energy is best spent elswhere.

[bls926]

I personally think whats going on here is that first everyone doubted AIM Pa,it gave everyone something to gossip about and it worked for a while but then when you found out they were legit,you looked like a bunch of idiots. So out of desperation to try and make yourselves look good again you decided to pick at Gene,Who i think we all can agree that besides the fact that he humorously and jokingly calls his kids "Little savages" is a respectable goodhearted guy.

So enclosing i must wonder who is the better people AIM or the people on this thread,you dont hear of AIM attacking anyones children and family,which isnt a smart thing to do,which shows the intellegnce level of everyone here besides Red Thunder and Corrine,they showed more intellegence and maturity here.One has to wonder,if they didnt know any of us and after looking at this thread,would have to wonder how can so many people trying to smash one guy,who they know nothing about,make themselves look so damn stupid and think that they are more intellegent that a simple..........Rodent.

I'm sitting here shaking my head. Y'all really don't get it. This isn't about making ourselves look good or anyone else look bad.

No one is picking at Gene. No one has attacked Gene's children or his family. Just making observations. There is nothing humorous about someone calling their kids "little savages". What is funny about that? Do you think the University of Illinois should reinstate Chief Illiniwek? Should the University of North Dakota keep the Fighting Sioux? And what about that professional football team in Washington DC? You don't see a problem with the Redskins? After hundreds of years of racism, you think it's humorous to refer to your children as "little savages"? I question his insensitivity. If you think it's something to joke about, I question yours. Where is you brain? Where is your heart?

How can someone so unaware of the real-life issues facing Indians, be a member of AIM? There is more to being part of the American Indian Movement than braids and shades. There's more to life than powwows and frybread. Indians have serious problems. No one needs an AIM chapter who is all fluff.

[educatedindian]

I personally think whats going on here is that first everyone doubted AIM Pa,it gave everyone something to gossip about and it worked for a while but then when you found out they were legit,you looked like a bunch of idiots. So out of desperation to try and make yourselves look good again you decided to pick at Gene,Who i think we all can agree that besides the fact that he humorously and jokingly calls his kids "Little savages" is a respectable goodhearted guy.

So enclosing i must wonder who is the better people AIM or the people on this thread,you dont hear of AIM attacking anyones children and family,which isnt a smart thing to do,which shows the intellegnce level of everyone here besides Red Thunder and Corrine,they showed more intellegence and maturity here.One has to wonder,if they didnt know any of us and after looking at this thread,would have to wonder how can so many people trying to smash one guy,who they know nothing about,make themselves look so damn stupid and think that they are more intellegent that a simple..........Rodent.

Try learning to actually read before making yourself look foolish repeatedly. You keep shooting the whole chapter and all of your friends in the foot with that shotgun that doubles for your mouth.

This thread started off with concern some young kids might be getting used by being made into a chapter by someone without that right. That issue is done. Then you and Roy/Redthunder had to throw fits again and because of that, other concerns have been raised. Good going, smart guys....

Some day if you learn to pick your targets you might be able to do some good for NDNs. Until then, I hope you learn from the example of a real AIMster who just tried to help you several posts back, Sky Davis, a longtime NAFPS member.

[Trad Dancer]

Again,and i obviously have to keep repeating myself,cuz apparently its not getting thru to everyone here,whos still talking about this......The question was,Aim-pa,are these guys for real?
   The answer has been given,yes they are legit,why is everyone dwelling on this,move on! grow up! Stop wasting everyones time!

[bls926]

Again,and i obviously have to keep repeating myself,cuz apparently its not getting thru to everyone here,whos still talking about this......The question was,Aim-pa,are these guys for real?
   The answer has been given,yes they are legit,why is everyone dwelling on this,move on! grow up! Stop wasting everyones time!

Trad Dancer, are you ignoring everything that's been said here? Obviously, you are. While it has been determined (at least by some) that Chinka Whitekiller had the authority/ability/right to authorize an AIM chapter in Pennsylvania, nowhere in this thread has it been established that any of y'all are legit. Seems like there's a whole lot of questions. And, as Al said, the more you and Roy keep running your mouths, the more questions arise. I question your sincerity. Some question your methods, your rationale, the things y'all say and do. Some are questioning whether y'all are even Indian. This matter is far from closed.

[Rattlebone]

Again,and i obviously have to keep repeating myself,cuz apparently its not getting thru to everyone here,whos still talking about this......The question was,Aim-pa,are these guys for real?
   The answer has been given,yes they are legit,why is everyone dwelling on this,move on! grow up! Stop wasting everyones time!

 Are you aware that calling an NDN person a "savage" is no different in the eyes of many then calling a black person the N word, or calling some other ethnic group some seriously offensive name?

 Now it is true that some people will engage in this behavior, or are not against words like Redskin, and fully support it being used for sports teams. However these people are usually in the minority. Plus those who say such words, do so tongue in cheek as jokes, but typically those who I see make such jokes are often close to full blooded people and nobody would really see them stereo typing NDN's in a bad light.

 Now when I do see somebody use such words and they are claiming to be "Mixed blood" or the whole "part Indian" schtick; often times they are not saying such things tongue in cheek as a joke, but say so with a more stereo typical attitude that borders on racism and ignornace. For example I know a guy who claims the whole "part Cherokee" thing, and blames his bad drinking habits on a claim to NDN blood he has no proof of, and while he has no connection to any NDN community.

 So a person of light skin should seriously think twice about calling their children "savages," especially when they are claiming to be AIM and are supposed to be doing battle against such things being used.

In my opinion such things as Redskins, Savages, etc do harm to NDN people, and especially our children. I have friends that live on reservations such as Spirit Lake, and I swear I would have to comfort them on a nearly weekly basis when they cried over hearing another young person had committed suicide. Such things play heavy on my mind every day.

If you are legitimate as you claim to be, then I would seriously think you would get informed, and refrain from using words like "savages" on your own children while claiming to be supporting and fighting for NDN children and NDN people in general. *edit to add here* That I feel mascots and words like savages and things of that nature play a part in teen suicide amongst NDN children because such things are factors in breaking down feelings of self worth and add to general feelings of despair.
 

[Trad Dancer]

Here we go again,u guys are all nothing but a broken record,saying the same things over and over,even saying alot of things in a European sense,German? maybe?
Makes me wonder how many people here are twinkies.
As an example,Roy is not a member of the Lakotha tribe, as far as i know i never heard of the Lakotha people,which is a word that has been mispelled quite a few times,but no disrespect there huh?And its clear that some people here need english language spelling lessons,as well.
Also,as far as AIM not being "Skins",4 of them are full bloods,2 are "Halfbloods" so i dont know where you all get your information but you should probably consider new sources,Wacipi,or whatever your name is,i dont think you know or know of these guys like you say you do.
This Autonomous AIM chapter is sponsored by Chinka Whitekiller,who is legit,hence they are legit.Thats the end of the conversation,whether you like it or not,I will pray for all of you people here who are sceptic of this,as you do need it.

[bls926]

Here we go again,u guys are all nothing but a broken record,saying the same things over and over,even saying alot of things in a European sense,German? maybe?
Makes me wonder how many people here are twinkies.

You really need to start reading what we've written. Not just read it, but try to understand what we're saying. European sense? German? Twinkies? Yeah, right.
 

As an example,Roy is not a member of the Lakotha tribe, as far as i know i never heard of the Lakotha people,which is a word that has been mispelled quite a few times,but no disrespect there huh?And its clear that some people here need english language spelling lessons,as well.

Wacipi misspelled Lakota; he misspelled Italian, too. Not a big deal. We knew what he meant. We need spelling lessons? If I were you, I wouldn't throw stones.

Also,as far as AIM not being "Skins",4 of them are full bloods,2 are "Halfbloods" so i dont know where you all get your information but you should probably consider new sources,Wacipi,or whatever your name is,i dont think you know or know of these guys like you say you do.

Four full-bloods and two half-bloods? You may be able to convince the people at Allentown, Muddy Run, or Indian Steps, but then maybe not. I don't believe it. You forget some of us know people in Chester and Lancaster County. Don't make claims you can't back up. You know, it really isn't that important whether y'all are full-blood or little-to-none-at-all. What's important is being honest about it.

This Autonomous AIM chapter is sponsored by Chinka Whitekiller,who is legit,hence they are legit.Thats the end of the conversation,whether you like it or not,I will pray for all of you people here who are sceptic of this,as you do need it.

Talk about a eurocentric attitude. You're right and we're wrong; therefore, the conversation is ended.

You still don't get it. There is so much more to being a member of the American Indian Movement than braids and shades.

[HollowBone]

Hi there.
I have to apologize first. I was in here as Wacipi and tried to change my e-mail information. Somehow I made a mistake and never got the confirmation message, because the E-mail address is not valid (of course not with a spelling mistake). I tried, but couldn't get back in anymore. So I had to come back with another nick. Well, here I am.
First, the comment from Rattlebone brings it to the point. Thanks Rattlebone. He took the words out of my mouth, just better. My concern too is, how will someone like that know, what needs the Native Community has? How will someone like that understand what we are about? How will they represent us, when they don't know us, our ways, our feelings, our needs. How could you ever think, savage is a funny word. I can remember back what riot it was when TV came up with Tonto. But this was about TV, savage is about reality and history, death and blood. It is about "Only a dead Indian is a good Indian". Will you really take someone for real and serious in "efforts" for AIM and with that for our People? Will you really support people like that, feeding the wrong wolf? For me, I am sorry, these people are totally unacceptable.
I have to ask even more. What became of AIM? They tolerate groups like that, using the name AIM and what it stands for, for... what? Personal empowerment? Tolerating groups like Whitekiller's as legit? Why is nobody reacting on all that? Not reacting on this is acting against the people, because we tolerate with that a attack on our ways, let them make a choke out of it. Autonomous or not, they still use A.I.M. and their logos. Set a sign.
Now a word to Trad Dancer. I know these people well my friend. Years back we were used to be friends. Roy himself told me about his italien ancestry. He asked Gene how he managed it to get a card, because he badly want one. What he didn't know is, that Gene's card is from a twinky Tribe. They already fooled me years back with that non sense and I believed 'em. Well, at the beginning. Is not Ringo Roy's Lakota buddy and is not Vicky his girlfriend in the moment? Doesn't Roy drive a Chevy Van now and Gene a green Mountaineer? Who da heck shall be the Full Bloods? Not Roy for sure as well not Gene. Who is left? Dan? He claims to be adopted from a family in Pine Ridge, which is not lie. I can proof that too if neccessary. He is pure white if I may say so. Who else? Dan, Gene's buddy? A white guy who found out recently that he has NDN ancestry (lol). Come on, give us a break. You know and I know that these guys are far away from what they claim to be. With that they are unacceptable to run a AIM Chapter. Don't you think?

[HollowBone]

I apologize for spelling mistakes. Mea culpa. Well, I was not fortune enough to get a good education, I had to support my family. So sometimes I just write it as I feel it is right. But I can speak my mothers tongue, my native language fluently. Can you too? The value of your education always depends on where you live. Where I come from "your" education was good for nothing. We were busy to survive.

[HollowBone]

Little spell check on yours Trad Dancer:
  Re: Is this group for real? AIM PA, Leonard Peltier's son
« Reply #60 on: October 19, 2009, 07:28:50 PM » Quote 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I personally think whats going on here is that first everyone doubted AIM Pa,it gave everyone something to gossip about and it worked for a while but then when you found out they were legit,you looked like a bunch of idiots. So out of desperation to try and make yourselves look good again you decided to pick at Gene,Who i think we all can agree that besides the fact that he humorously and jokingly calls his kids "Little savages" is a respectable goodhearted guy.

So enclosing i must wonder who is the better people AIM or the people on this thread,you dont hear of AIM attacking anyones children and family,which isnt a smart thing to do,which shows the intellegnce level of everyone here besides Red Thunder and Corrine,they showed more intellegence and maturity here.One has to wonder,if they didnt know any of us and after looking at this thread,would have to wonder how can so many people trying to smash one guy,who they know nothing about,make themselves look so damn stupid and think that they are more intellegent that a simple..........Rodent.
 
You need more?

[bls926]

I apologize for spelling mistakes. Mea culpa. Well, I was not fortune enough to get a good education, I had to support my family. So sometimes I just write it as I feel it is right. But I can speak my mothers tongue, my native language fluently. Can you too? The value of your education always depends on where you live. Where I come from "your" education was good for nothing. We were busy to survive.

Don't worry about your spelling mistakes; we all knew exactly what you were saying. With all the misspelled words in Trad Dancer's posts, she's the last person who should be criticizing anyone's spelling. She's got that superiority thing going on; thinks she's right and we're all wrong.

[Trad Dancer]

Hollow bone,
When i said full and half blood earlier a wasnt talkin about Roy,Gene,or those two Dan guys you were talkin about,they have recruited and gotten new members.
As for the spelling thing,you were compairing apples to oranges,Those words Lakotha and Italein were just misspelled as the ones you highlighted were just run together,but ok.
I think instead of us all wasting our time arguing about all this,maybe we should be workin together.Our time would be better spent by that.

[taraverti]

Hollow bone,
When i said full and half blood earlier a wasnt talkin about Roy,Gene,or those two Dan guys you were talkin about,they have recruited and gotten new members.
As for the spelling thing,you were compairing apples to oranges,Those words Lakotha and Italein were just misspelled as the ones you highlighted were just run together,but ok.
I think instead of us all wasting our time arguing about all this,maybe we should be workin together.Our time would be better spent by that.

So are we supposed to believe that the pretendians went and recruited real Indians? Somehow I doubt it.


I'm sorry, you may mean well, but I just cannot see this group as credible.  Perhaps over time you will prove yourselves, so far you've not done so, for me anyway.


Edited to apologize for that snarky first sentence. I'm leaving it though, because it feels dishonest to edit it out. I wrote it, I'll own it.

[critter - a white non-ndn person]

I'm sorry to butt in here, as I really know nothing at all about AIM.  But I do know intelligence is spelled with an i.  

Trad, you insulted a group of people, perhaps not intentionally at first, but then went on to defend it.  Then when it was explained clearly why it is insulting, you completely ignored it and instead focused on HollowBone's spelling.  Even now, you completely ignore what was said, and post again in regards to .. spelling?  Come on.  Get real.  Who cares if a word is misspelled, it doesn't matter, it makes no difference.  The messages came through very clear regardless of any words misspelled..  

And yet..  look what you have done Trad.. here I sit, writing a paragraph on the importance of spelling?  Again I will state .. you have completely not seen what is clear, but distract from the issue by picking on someone's spelling.  

Please know there are people like myself, who read these forums, perhaps not fully aware of all the issues but learning, and sometimes, sitting a little outside the circle one has a more objective view.

And what I am seeing is B.S. on your part.  And I find it insulting. Spelling..  LOL  right.  Get a grip, read what has been written and stop fussing about and distracting the attention of the real issues. All you're really doing is 'adding' insult to insult.

And I apologize for adding to the distraction, or taking away from the 'real' issue here..  I just wanted to speak up.

Thank you.

Edited to add:  Trad just really pissed me off on this.  HollowBone's messages were very good and that you come here and try to take them down because of some words spelling just really makes me mad.  If that's the way you judge and treat people, then I can have no respect for you.  

And if this AIM chapter is some group in support of ndn ways, well, I'd think twice about having THAT kind of reflection on it.  Seriously, I may not know exactly what AIM is, but I can tell you all, that if I.. being without knowledge.. met some group reportedly supporting ndn ways and was treated with that kind of BS I would form a very negative opinion about AIM..  so you should be careful on who you have representing you..  and I think that is what this thread is about.  And that's my 2cents even if I don't have the right to vote, I can voice my opinion.  Up until this whole 'spelling' thing.. I really didn't know what to think...

Sorry, I'm rambling.. but I'm MAD..  how dare he insult someone based on 'spelling' and not even address the message which was clear as could be??  And he is part of a group 'representing' NDN's?   I wouldn't want him representing ANY part of me in ANY way!!  

Edited for one last thing... as someone who has come to suicide more than once in my life time, that you, Trad, would follow a post that speaks of such a thing with some tripped up nonsense pointing out spelling errors?  Talk about a side stepping of the issues...