Author Topic: Michael Spisak AKA Hawk Goodfire  (Read 113868 times)

Offline ComesWithFire

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Re: Michael Spisak AKA Hawk Goodfire & Rev Susan Ferraro
« Reply #60 on: December 14, 2009, 03:36:30 am »
This was printed in a local newspaper................so if you have a problem then maybe you should contact the newspaper and Ginger Brown who wrote the article and who is also the government relations officer for the Cherokee nation.  
the truth is the truth.
no one is desperate here just letting everyone know what is being put out for the public.
Now you never did put out the statements of the people who reviewed and dissmissed your actions of causing injury to a person during one of your sweat lodges.
Where are these statements?
« Last Edit: December 14, 2009, 03:46:14 am by ComesWithFire »
If you cannot run with the big dogs then stay under the porch with the puppies

Offline ComesWithFire

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Re: Michael Spisak AKA Hawk Goodfire & Rev Susan Ferraro
« Reply #61 on: December 14, 2009, 03:40:11 am »
The link is below for the story
« Last Edit: December 14, 2009, 10:42:51 am by ComesWithFire »
If you cannot run with the big dogs then stay under the porch with the puppies

Offline ComesWithFire

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Re: Michael Spisak AKA Hawk Goodfire & Rev Susan Ferraro
« Reply #62 on: December 14, 2009, 04:34:39 am »
here is the website link I also have a hard copy of the news paper article
http://www.heraldstandard.com/news_detail/article/1737/2009/december/13/cherokee-nation-official-warns-of-fradulent-groups.html

Cherokee Nation official warns of fradulent groups
By: GINGER BROWN Herald Standard

I read with great interest the story "Ceremony held for White Buffalo" published recently about the so-called elder member and ambassador of the Sovereign Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma. I thought you might want to be made aware that this individual is not affiliated in any way with the real Cherokee Nation or with the other two federally recognized Cherokee tribes.

Fraudulent groups and individuals passing themselves off as Native American have become big business over the past two decades, with more than 200 groups that claim to be some sort of Cherokee tribe.

There are also hundreds of individuals who claim to be Cherokee or from the Cherokee Nation and offer services that range from teaching culture to spiritual advice. The Cherokee Nation does not question anyone's claims of heritage or ancestry, but merely points out the significant difference between claiming heritage and having citizenship in a federally recognized Indian tribe. There are only three federally recognized Cherokee tribes: the Cherokee Nation and the United Keetoowah Band of Cherokee Indians both located in Oklahoma and the Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians located in North Carolina. No group outside of North Carolina and Oklahoma has ever been recognized as a legitimate Cherokee sovereign.

The "Eastern Cherokee Nation" and "Western Cherokee Nation," including the "old settlers" and "late immigrants," joined together in an Act of Union on July 12, 1839. There are no "lost" Cherokee tribes or splinter groups that hid out or dropped off the Trail of Tears.

Those who have Native American ancestry but are not eligible for citizenship in a federally recognized Indian tribe should participate in the culture through heritage groups and associations, but not groups that call themselves "tribes" or "nations."

Fake tribes and individuals with unverifiable ties to Native American citizenship often claim to be passing on Cherokee cultural knowledge and traditional arts. But the reality is that these groups and individuals dilute true Indian culture and identity. Many of them pass along cultural information that is incorrect or that perpetuates harmful stereotypes.

When seeking authentic information about tribal culture, history, traditions, genealogy and government, we urge you to look carefully into claims made by groups that are not recognized by the federal government, especially those that claim to represent the Cherokee Nation or another tribe. The Cherokee Nation is alive and well in Tahlequah, Okla., as it has been for 170 years. Cherokee language and culture still thrive here, as well as in North Carolina with the Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians. Those looking for knowledge should turn to historic, legitimate Indian tribes for such information. For further information with regard to dispelling myths and exposing frauds, call the Cherokee Nation (918) 453-5000 or the Bureau of Indian Affairs at (202) 513-7650 for a list of legitimate nations, tribes and bands. For more information about the Cherokee Nation, visit our Web site at www.cherokee.org and tribalrecognition.cherokee.org

.

Ginger Brown is the government relations officer for the Cherokee Nation.

« Last Edit: December 14, 2009, 05:02:23 am by ComesWithFire »
If you cannot run with the big dogs then stay under the porch with the puppies

Offline hawkgoodfire

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Re: Michael Spisak AKA Hawk Goodfire & Rev Susan Ferraro
« Reply #63 on: December 14, 2009, 11:49:38 am »
ok, so Ginger Brown says she has no affiliation. My apologies to you. Yet, Nagi carries the endorsed credentials. Sounds like something that needs to be handled by the Cherokee. What does this have to do with me? Other than the obvious of course. That you are using it to somehow discredit me. Nagi is a wonderful person. Very respectful and very traditional. I know many Elders who emulate her. I know many more who should.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2009, 12:21:33 pm by hawkgoodfire »

Offline hawkgoodfire

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Re: Michael Spisak AKA Hawk Goodfire & Rev Susan Ferraro
« Reply #64 on: December 14, 2009, 03:38:21 pm »
Nagi has been contacted and spoken with. She will be contacting Ms. Brown to rectify this situation. Yes, the wording was incorrect. Nagi is the official ambassador of the Elders Council of Locust Grove, Oklahoma. My apologies for any confusion this may have caused or misrepresentation by previous wording. This is no way takes away from Nagis' credibility or validity. Nagi is a highly respected, venerated, recognized Elder of the Cherokee Nation. An official statement is forthcoming. When it is received, it will be posted accordingly. The Herald Standard is being contacted, and a retraction will be formally requested.

Offline hawkgoodfire

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Re: Michael Spisak AKA Hawk Goodfire & Rev Susan Ferraro
« Reply #65 on: December 14, 2009, 04:08:08 pm »
any questions regarding the credibility of Nagi White Owl should be directed to the Cherokee Elders Council, telephone: (800) 337 9084 They are aware of this situation and are correcting it. The Secretaries name is Audrey Selken.

Offline Superdog

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Re: Michael Spisak AKA Hawk Goodfire & Rev Susan Ferraro
« Reply #66 on: December 14, 2009, 04:23:41 pm »
I'm not debating the legitimacy of one person, I'm only contributing this from the Cherokee Elders Council Website where Nagi is listed as a sponsor.  Her hometown is listed as Parsons, Kansas, however, the council themselves are not a governmental body of the Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma so Ginger Brown's statement that she doesn't represent CNO appears to be correct.

-------------------------------------------------
from their website Mission page:
http://cherokeeelderscouncil.cherokee.org/Mission/tabid/2014/Default.aspx

The Cherokee Elders Council promotes and preserves the Cherokee language, culture, and traditions through teaching and community involvement. 

Cherokee Elders Council is a 501(c)3 non-profit corporation, composed of action oriented, not politically affiliated, Cherokees 55 years and older.

Chief Elder, Jack Hummingbird 
---------------------------------------------------

They do a lot of great things but I don't see any indication where they sanction ambassadors of the Cherokee Nation.  In fact, they would seem to shy away from that according to the info from their site.

Came across her name as a presenter for the Gathering of Eagles in 2002.  That particular event calls Sun Bear and Brooke Medicine Eagle as great wisdom keepers and touts the legitimacy of Wallace Black Elk.  Can't really read much into that other than she was listed as a presenter and leader of the Wolf Clan with tribal affiliations from Cherokee, Lakota and Osage.

I'm not debating any of that info, (I'm not Cherokee...it's really up to them and the other tribes to say something if they have a problem with that), but she shows up alongside several dubious characters in different pay to pray types of situations with that listing at the Gathering of Eagles.  Maybe it was a mistake, but it does make her appear to support individuals like Brooke Medicine Eagle and others who are known frauds.  Can you enlighten us Michael on what Nagi's take is on that event...giving her an open door to say her part and put things to rest if she likes.

Superdog

Offline hawkgoodfire

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Re: Michael Spisak AKA Hawk Goodfire & Rev Susan Ferraro
« Reply #67 on: December 14, 2009, 04:33:58 pm »

I'm not debating any of that info, (I'm not Cherokee...it's really up to them and the other tribes to say something if they have a problem with that), but she shows up alongside several dubious characters in different pay to pray types of situations with that listing at the Gathering of Eagles.  Maybe it was a mistake, but it does make her appear to support individuals like Brooke Medicine Eagle and others who are known frauds.  Can you enlighten us Michael on what Nagi's take is on that event...giving her an open door to say her part and put things to rest if she likes.

Superdog

No, my friend, I cannot speak as Nagi. However, you are welcome to speak with her directly about it. Nagi is a wonderful person, very traditional, who goes above and beyond to provide for her people. I know her as an intelligent, outspoken individual who does not mince words or say anything she isnt willing to back up. I would suggest calling the Elders Council to hear from them first hand who she is, what she does, and to ascertain her credibility and standing in the community. You will find she is regarded highly, with much respect and love. As for who she may have known or been at an event with, this is well beyond my ability to speak about. I can say, from the person I know, she would never condone a "pay to pray" situation, in any context. From Audrey Selken, in its entirety:

Dear Mr Goodfire.
I am deeply troubled by the mis-information that has been circulating about Nagi Whiteowl.This was a terrible mistake on the part of The Herald Standard. She in no way represented herself as an ambassador for the Cherokee Nation.
Nagi Whiteowl is a valued member of the Cherokee Elders Council of Locust Grove ,Oklahoma.and indeed an ambassador for us. She helps us in our endeavor to aid all people in need in our comunities. Because of her help we are able to feed and find clothing and other goods for over 15,000 people in need every year.
I truly hope that this awful mistake can be corrected immediately.
 
Audrey Selken   Treasurer  Cherokee Elders Council, Inc.
 
« Last Edit: December 14, 2009, 04:37:08 pm by hawkgoodfire »

Offline Superdog

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Re: Michael Spisak AKA Hawk Goodfire & Rev Susan Ferraro
« Reply #68 on: December 14, 2009, 06:45:38 pm »

I'm not debating any of that info, (I'm not Cherokee...it's really up to them and the other tribes to say something if they have a problem with that), but she shows up alongside several dubious characters in different pay to pray types of situations with that listing at the Gathering of Eagles.  Maybe it was a mistake, but it does make her appear to support individuals like Brooke Medicine Eagle and others who are known frauds.  Can you enlighten us Michael on what Nagi's take is on that event...giving her an open door to say her part and put things to rest if she likes.

Superdog

No, my friend, I cannot speak as Nagi. However, you are welcome to speak with her directly about it. Nagi is a wonderful person, very traditional, who goes above and beyond to provide for her people. I know her as an intelligent, outspoken individual who does not mince words or say anything she isnt willing to back up. I would suggest calling the Elders Council to hear from them first hand who she is, what she does, and to ascertain her credibility and standing in the community. You will find she is regarded highly, with much respect and love. As for who she may have known or been at an event with, this is well beyond my ability to speak about. I can say, from the person I know, she would never condone a "pay to pray" situation, in any context. From Audrey Selken, in its entirety:

Dear Mr Goodfire.
I am deeply troubled by the mis-information that has been circulating about Nagi Whiteowl.This was a terrible mistake on the part of The Herald Standard. She in no way represented herself as an ambassador for the Cherokee Nation.
Nagi Whiteowl is a valued member of the Cherokee Elders Council of Locust Grove ,Oklahoma.and indeed an ambassador for us. She helps us in our endeavor to aid all people in need in our comunities. Because of her help we are able to feed and find clothing and other goods for over 15,000 people in need every year.
I truly hope that this awful mistake can be corrected immediately.
 
Audrey Selken   Treasurer  Cherokee Elders Council, Inc.
 

Ok...I'm just trying to head off the witch hunt on her before it goes any further.  It's pretty easy to gather that she is a charitable person and there is no evidence of any fraudulent behavior on her part IMHO.  Non-Indian media will frequently misrepresent the information about a person and tend to throw in their own ideas and the jump from representing the Elders Council of Locust Grove to representing the Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma just because she said she's Cherokee is something non-Indian journalists would commonly do and the misrepresentation is not out of the ordinary. 

My take on her is that she is who she says she is and she's someone whose only trying to help.  If she's got any faults it may be that she's too trusting as she's given some support to one or two internet shamans...or at the very least they use words attributed to her as selling points for what they got going on.

Probably time to move on from her.  She's free to weigh in on these issues herself or through you Michael, but I don't think it's truly necessary.

Superdog

Offline hawkgoodfire

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Re: Michael Spisak AKA Hawk Goodfire & Rev Susan Ferraro
« Reply #69 on: December 14, 2009, 08:32:00 pm »
thank you

Offline ComesWithFire

  • Posts: 39
Re: Michael Spisak AKA Hawk Goodfire & Rev Susan Ferraro
« Reply #70 on: December 14, 2009, 09:51:20 pm »
This is the Invitation for the Wopila Ceremony from the Buffalo Messengers website. As you can clearly see it states Nagi White Owl Ambassador, Sovereign Cherokee Nation , Oklahoma .
So if thats a mistake then Buffalo Messengers and whoever put together the invitation are the ones who need to apologize for giving out the wrong information.
Heres the weblink
http://www.buffalomessengers.org/images/invite-3.jpg

P.S. if this weblink suddenly disapears then please email me I have it copied in full and would be gladly to send it.
If you cannot run with the big dogs then stay under the porch with the puppies

Offline hawkgoodfire

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Re: Michael Spisak AKA Hawk Goodfire & Rev Susan Ferraro
« Reply #71 on: December 14, 2009, 09:58:04 pm »
This is the Invitation for the Wopila Ceremony from the Buffalo Messengers website. As you can clearly see it states Nagi White Owl Ambassador, Sovereign Cherokee Nation , Oklahoma .
So if thats a mistake then Buffalo Messengers and whoever put together the invitation are the ones who need to apologize for giving out the wrong information.
Heres the weblink
http://www.buffalomessengers.org/images/invite-3.jpg

P.S. if this weblink suddenly disapears then please email me I have it copied in full and would be gladly to send it.

this has obviously been done already, much earlier in the day. See « Reply #64 on: Today at 08:38:21 AM »

Offline ComesWithFire

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Re: Michael Spisak AKA Hawk Goodfire & Rev Susan Ferraro
« Reply #72 on: December 14, 2009, 10:07:57 pm »
Hopefuly  the Herald Standard will hear the real story about how someone made the mistake of putting wrong information out for the public to see. That should be printed.
If you cannot run with the big dogs then stay under the porch with the puppies

Offline hawkgoodfire

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Re: Michael Spisak AKA Hawk Goodfire & Rev Susan Ferraro
« Reply #73 on: December 14, 2009, 10:16:36 pm »
Hopefuly  the Herald Standard will hear the real story about how someone made the mistake of putting wrong information out for the public to see. That should be printed.

that too is being handled...by the Cherokee. As it should be.

Offline ComesWithFire

  • Posts: 39
Re: Michael Spisak AKA Hawk Goodfire & Rev Susan Ferraro
« Reply #74 on: December 14, 2009, 10:19:48 pm »
As long as the real story about how it was written on your website. For this is how it was started.
The Herald standard did not make a mistake. it was the information that was placed on Micheal Spisak;s website that started this whole thing. Hopefuly that truth will come out. It should come out we shall see.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2009, 11:03:46 pm by ComesWithFire »
If you cannot run with the big dogs then stay under the porch with the puppies