Hi, I'm Unegv Waya and I'm new here

[Unegv Waya]

First, thank you to the administrators for accepting my request to join this board.

I wish to make it clear that though I have some documented linage to the Cherokee, I am not an enrolled member of the nation.  It seems my ancestors were among those who did not reply to the final roles though a couple of them do appear on the early rolls. 

I have spent considerable time with native peoples from various NA nations including, needless to say, the Cherokee and the Creek.  My mother was born Mary Frances Gibson and she was one quarter native and 3 quarters white.  My maternal grandmother was 1/2 Cherokee by blood quantum and my maternal grandfather was 1/4 Cherokee and the rest was Scots/Irish.  It was an Elder with the Echota of Alabama who told me what rolls to look at to find my great uncle and great aunt.

FWIW, I've learned to speak a bit of Tsalagi and, at the approval of members of both the Eastern and Western bands, have facilitated classes at our public library on the Cherokee  language.  I've also filled in as the A.D. at a few dozen powwows in central Florida and from those experiences met many great whannabe and plastic shamans.  Involving Cherokee language and culture, I've recorded some songs, written in Tsalagi and, along with a Cherokee man from the Eastern band, have performed these for the general public and elders of both bands.

That's about all there is except to say that I am pleased to find this site and am thrilled that you are exposing the frauds.  If you want to know anything more about me, just ask.

donadagohvi nvwatohiyadv

Unegv Waya

p.s. My 1st name is Mike so feel free to address me as such.

[BlackWolf]

FWIW, I've learned to speak a bit of Tsalagi and, at the approval of members of both the Eastern and Western bands, have facilitated classes at our public library on the Cherokee  language.

Mike, What do you mean by "a bit"  Are you fluent in Cherokee?  And if so, where did you learn the Cherokee language?  Did you grow up speaking it?  Was your family speakers of the language? 

When you say approval, are you saying that individual enrolled members of the Cherokee Nation and Eastern Band approve of your teaching these classes?

[Unegv Waya]

FWIW, I've learned to speak a bit of Tsalagi and, at the approval of members of both the Eastern and Western bands, have facilitated classes at our public library on the Cherokee  language.

Mike, What do you mean by "a bit"  Are you fluent in Cherokee?  And if so, where did you learn the Cherokee language?  Did you grow up speaking it?  Was your family speakers of the language? 

When you say approval, are you saying that individual enrolled members of the Cherokee Nation and Eastern Band approve of your teaching these classes?

Hi there, Black Wolf,

I do not consider myself as being fluent because I do not know enough of the words and phrases to hold a running conversation in Tsalagi.  I can up to a point but I still can get lost and have to refer to a dictionary.

I first started learning Tsalagi from some Cherokee I knew through the work I was doing.  It started out simple with my picking up a few words like: osiyo, dohitsu, dohiquu, equa, usti, utsati, hilvsgi, etc..  I guess since I could pick up those words a few of my co-workers taught me a bit more about the language.  Over the years I got to the point where I could pretty much follow a conversation in Tsalagi.  As they taught me I would say usti goliga tsalagi - I understand a little Cherokee.

Then some years passed and I was not around anyone who spoke the language so, save for a few words and phrases, I forgot a lot of it due to simple lack of using it.

It was six years ago when I found out a culture center up near Stark, Florida offered classes in the language and I started attending them.  After the first set of sessions the person facilitating the class was going to move and the center asked me to take it over because I already knew some of the language and I had experience as an instructor at one time.  I did so until they found someone who was fluent.

A year later I was asked to start a class here in Citrus county.  That was when I spoke with the few members of either band that I ran across on occasion if my doing so would be considered and insult to the Cherokee or any other native peoples since I was not an enrolled member of any tribe.  They all told me that what I speak of Tsalagi I speak well enough and that there should be no concerns about my giving some basic lessons as long as I do not misrepresent who I am.  I considered that being them expressing their approval about my facilitating the class.

If I missed anything you were asking please let me know.

donadagohvi

[BlackWolf]

I do not consider myself as being fluent because I do not know enough of the words and phrases to hold a running conversation in Tsalagi.  I can up to a point but I still can get lost and have to refer to a dictionary.

This tells me right there you shouldn't be teaching it.  Theres also a lot of cultural issues and protocols in teaching a language that you wouldn't know.  If you say that you can follow a conversation in Cherokee.  Then I seriously doubt you just picked it up.  Language,especially the Cherokee languge, isn't something you can just pick up from buddies at work.  Nor could you become fluent taken online or self study classes.  It just isn't possible.  I'm sure a lot of Indians on this site would say the same thing.  You'd pretty much have to live with a fluent speaker and actually use it on a daily basis.  And even in this case, fluency is even difficult to achieve for adult learners.  North Eastern University in Oklahoma, and Western Carolina University has 4 year degree programs in the Cherokee language.  I know people in these programs and even they will tell you the difficulty it takes to become fluent. 

And if you just know some basic words and phrases, then you shouldt be teaching it.  Especially to the public.  I also know some basic Cherokee words and phrases.  I've taken some online classes offered by the Cherokee Nation over the years, and I  have also  picked up some words and expressions from fluent speakers when I can over the years.  I had a family member who passed on that could understand it because it was spoken to them as a child.  But because I picked up a little over the years, and have taken some online classes, I wouldnt even begin to  think that I have the right or knowledge to teach it. 

And if your in Florida, I would question who your teaching Cherokee to? Are you teaching the languge to a group of white people?  Or are you teachng the languge to Cheroekes?   I would assume its the former.  I don't think you should even be teaching the basics.   Also just because a few enrolled members of the Eastern Band and Cherokee Nation told you they didn't have any concerns doesn't really mean much.

[Unegv Waya]

I do understand your concerns and respect your POV on this, Black Wolf.  The classes I facilitate are listed as being basic, introductory classes only.  Those who wish to continue their study of it are referenced to the language classes and materials listed on the official CN's websites..  I never represent the classes as containing the substance that would be required for one to learn the language to the point of being fluent.  If I were to ever describe the classes as anything other than basic and introductory in nature then I would be both unqualified and misrepresenting what those in attendance should expect.

I know several Cherokee who don't speak a word of Tsalagi.  A couple of them moved down here to Florida and attend the classes on occasion.  There are also white and mixed bloods who attend.  Every one of them know that I am not fluent and can only show them what I know which includes basic vocabulary for most common day items and how to form questions and make statements involving who, what where, when, why and how.  One of my primary resources is the language center in Talequah.  They know what I am doing in my classes and have said they have no problem with it as long as I keep it basic and refer those interested in learning more to their resource centers and people.  I do exactly that and no more.

FWIW, it wasn't just picking up a few words from some buddies at work.  It sort of started that way but before long a couple of them  had me come to their homes where they taught me quite a bit about the language and its protocols.  For about 2 years after that I was fortunate enough to be around them on a daily basis and while in their homes would only speak Tsalagi.  No doubt I made some errors that would usually result in everyone having a good belly laugh but for that time I was around those who spoke the language fluently.  After being away from it for over a decade a lot of it seems to escaped my memory thus the reason I started attending the classes offered.

I wholehearted agree with you that if an official Cherokee language class were presented, one that would present the language and its protocols in full along with the cultural explanations for some of those protocols and expressions, then the presenter would have to be 100% fluent in the language and either be an enrolled member of the nation or have the full approval of the current council.

If you want to ask some people in the nation about me feel free to contact Rick Bird (Bird Chopper Family Drum) or Earl Yona Taylor (All Nations Warrior Drum) both are from the eastern band.  Tell them my 1st name and let them know I'm the other half of the Duct Tape Song duet.  They'll know who are talking about then.

nvwatohiyadv

[BlackWolf]

One of my primary resources is the language center in Talequah. They know what I am doing in my classes and have said they have no problem with it as long as I keep it basic and refer those interested in learning more to their resource centers and people.

Are you talking about the Cherokee Nation Cultural Resource Center?  Who did you talk to there?  Anna Huckaby?  Gloria Sly?  I seriously doubt they or others there would approve of a non Cherokee citizen, UKB member or EB member teaching “even basic” Cherokee in a public institution or forum ( a public library ).   Or at the very least someone who has been through the Cherokee degree program at North Eastern. 

I know several Cherokee who don't speak a word of Tsalagi. A couple of them moved down here to Florida and attend the classes on occasion. There are also white and mixed bloods who attend.

Where were these Cherokees from?  You might have a few real Cherokees ( I don’t know), but it sounds more like your teaching Wannabees.

If you want to ask some people in the nation about me feel free to contact Rick Bird (Bird Chopper Drum) or Earl Yona Taylor (All Nations Warrior Drum) both are from the eastern band. Tell them my 1st name and let them know I'm the other half of the Duct Tape Song duet. They'll know who are talking about then.

Rick Bird from the Bird Chopper Drum and Yona Taylor from his drum are paid performers on the Powwow Trail in Florida and the South East.  Probably over half the powwows they do are Wannabee Powwows. Their job is to make money, smile and sometimes perform for  Wannabees and maybe even tell them what they want to hear.  Nothing against them drumming and giving people basic info about Cherokee culture, which can be a good thing, just making a point, that their audiance is in many cases , actually most cases cases, non Cherokees, and non Indians.  I’d like to know what the consensus is from Cherokee communities in NC on what your doing.  But, I’m certain a lot of people from Traditional communities in Oklahoma would be against what your doing. 

[Unegv Waya]

Some of those I refer to are from Cherokee, NC and some are from Talequah and surrounding communities.  I don't ask to see someone's blue card so if they are not enrolled members then they lied to me and to others.

Yes, Rick and Earl do perform at all sorts of powwows and gatherings and some of them are not exactly traditional.  As for either of them telling people what they want to hear - I strongly disagree as I have heard what they have had to say to those who come to them with wannabe BS.  They may perform at some gatherings that are not quite right but when someone does or says anything disrespectful they set that person straight.  I know this first hand.


Would you say the same about Joanne Shenandoa?  She has attended and performed at some of the very same gatherings.  I've never seen anything she's done that would encourage any sort of wannabe anything.  Or have I missed something?

Last time I was in communication with the cultural resource center was about a year ago.  Since then I have changed PCs so this one does not have my old contact list on it.  Once I hook up the external drive I used to back up my old data I'll tell you with whom I communicated.  We never spoke over the phone - it was all via email.  I seem to recall it was a male with whom I exchanged emails. 

In those emails I outlined what I was presenting, what materials were being used and where the classes were conducted.  I made it clear that those in attendance know that this is not an official class from the nation and that nothing involving culture or ceremony or anything like that is to be presented.  So, when I get my old contact list up and going I'll write them again and post their reply right here, if you wish.

Perhaps some of your concerns stem from the simple fact that I am down here in Florida - wannabe capital of the U.S.A..  If you lived here, you'd likely be even more concerned as this place seems to have the strongest concentration of those who fit this site's purpose than anywhere else I've ever lived.  I was here 10 years before I even let it be known to a few people I found I could trust that I had any native anything in my life.

nvwatohiyadv

[Unegv Waya]

p.s. If you think I have these classes for $$ or the like know this - it is voluntary and I accept nothing for giving my time to this. 

[BlackWolf]

Would you say the same about Joanne Shenandoa?  She has attended and performed at some of the very same gatherings.  I've never seen anything she's done that would encourage any sort of wannabe anything.  Or have I missed something?

She's just a musical performer.  She gets paid and she performs. I have no idea of how she interacts with people at Powwows.  Whether it be with Indians or non Indians.  The only reason I mentioned Ric Bird and Yona, is because you seem to be saying that they approve of your Cherokee language classes.  The point I want to make is that they are both paid performers who deal with Wannabees on a regular basis. 

That was when I spoke with the few members of either band that I ran across on occasion if my doing so would be considered and insult to the Cherokee or any other native peoples since I was not an enrolled member of any tribe.  They all told me that what I speak of Tsalagi I speak well enough and that there should be no concerns about my giving some basic lessons as long as I do not misrepresent who I am.  I considered that being them expressing their approval about my facilitating the class.

Just because they are both enrolled EB members doesn't mean they speak for the EB or Cherokee people as a whole.  I still say most Cherokees in Oklahoma and probably NC wouldn't approve of a non enrolled member teaching Cherokee to a group of mostly Wannabees in a public institution.  You say your a Cherokee and thats all well and good.  But I question why someone would be teaching basic Cherokee to a group of mosly non Indians.  Especially someone who admits that they themselves only know the basics.  And yeah your right, Florida does seem to be full of Wannabees.  Especially Wannabee Cherokees. 

[BlackWolf]

In those emails I outlined what I was presenting, what materials were being used and where the classes were conducted.  I made it clear that those in attendance know that this is not an official class from the nation and that nothing involving culture or ceremony or anything like that is to be presented.  So, when I get my old contact list up and going I'll write them again and post their reply right here, if you wish.

Yes, I'd like to see that. 

Perhaps some of your concerns stem from the simple fact that I am down here in Florida - wannabe capital of the U.S.A..  If you lived here, you'd likely be even more concerned as this place seems to have the strongest concentration of those who fit this site's purpose than anywhere else I've ever lived.  I was here 10 years before I even let it be known to a few people I found I could trust that I had any native anything in my life.

Your probably right about it being the Wannabee capital of the USA.  There's some major misrepresentation of Indians (mostly Cherokees) going on in Florida.  You also have an enrolled citizen of the Cherokee Nation running around Florida doing so called Moon Ceremonies, and giving workshops on Walking the Red Path and making salves and lineaments.  He caters to the Wannabees and is active in the Wannabee powwows scene.  He even gave himself the typical stereotypical Plains Indian sounding name thats not part of Cherokee culture.   People in Oklahoma know about what he's doing.  The only reason he hasn't been exposed on this site is because of relationships and the embarrassment it would cause his relations in Oklahoma.

[Unegv Waya]

Black Wolf, I truly do understand what you are saying and why.  In my heart I agree with you that too many have misrepresented too much in all of native culture.  It is a sad thing, indeed.

You ask why I would want to facilitate such a class.  I can assure you it is not for money or for ego or for any other such purpose.  My reasons are deeply personal in part but also I was somewhat motivated by the fact that there were several people in the area, some native, some white and some mixed, who really wanted to have a group where they could get together to practice and learn a little bit of the language.  There were places that would do that for them but they were also doing things like training in faux ceremony and also charge $$ to attend their language classes.  I wanted to provide an alternate choice for them so that they were not exposed to the fakery but were given something of a language introduction with no agenda and no $$.

I know that you do not know me, Black Wolf, but I say here and before all creation that I have nothing but the most sincere respect and gratitude for native peoples in general and Cherokee in particular.  It was Cherokee, and on a couple of other occasions Sioux, people who helped me in ways I can not begin to detail.  Their open hearts and homes were something I will never forget.  

I was never made any sort of blood anything nor was I ever adopted by some family or anything like that ever.  I was, however, accepted and treated with both respect and kindness at times when I needed it most even though I didn't realize it.  A few times I was accepted by some Dine' and Hopi.  All of these were not wannabes or someone I came across in Florida or elsewhere, I was with these people on their respective reservations.  I learned respect for who and what they are.  So, if my facilitating one intro class in Tsalagi took the people who attend it away from those who would teach them other things that are wrong and dsirespectful to native peoples, I don't see where it is necessarily a bad thing.

All this being said, if the officials in Talequah ever ask me to cease the class, I will do so,

nvwatohiyadv

[Unegv Waya]

We sort of cross posted.  OMG, I know of whom you speak regarding the moon ceremonies.  Please, what can you tell me about this?

[flyaway]

Just wanted to know are part of the United Cherokee nation of Florida? I do know You belong or belonged to a group or band, I could be wrong. This Yona means Chief, who is he Chief of? Thanks

[Unegv Waya]

I'm not a member of any group or lodge, Flyaway.  The only Cherokee band I know of that is legit here in Florida is not a band but a satellite community called Cherokees of Central Florida and their web address is: http://centralflorida.cherokee.org/

In the Overhill dialect I know yona means bear - not chief.  In what dialect does yona mean chief?

nvwatohiyadv

[bls926]

Just wanted to know are part of the United Cherokee nation of Florida? I do know You belong or belonged to a group or band, I could be wrong. This Yona means Chief, who is he Chief of? Thanks

Yona means bear.


Welcome to NAFPS, Mike.