Passing as Native Musicians

[educatedindian]

A woman in the audience in Eskilstuna brought this up. And another person called out " We want a list! Now!" It got a big laugh, and made a would-be "chief" in the audience pretty nervous. Then again, so did my whole speech...

The only name of an imposter in the music business I could give them was Douglas Spotted Eagle. I know there's some others, people have been complaining about the faked winning NAMMY awards for years. Who else have others heard about as phonies?

Almost forgot-WTF! Willliam Two Feathers.

And Debbie's link in news and announcements points out Yeagley has a music CD out, but he's not NDN. His adopted mother was.

[ironhead]

I am of the opinion that anybody with a modicum of musical talent, if they had a bent to, can buy a CD of native music, study the melodies, and the beat, then buy native type garb and bead themselves up and display themselves in all their glory on a stage and tell anything they can dream up to a crowd. People who do this kind of thing have no conscience, so why should they concern themselves with being "exposed", when they long ago ran off with the money.

[BlackWolf]

educatedindian said

Who else have others heard about as phonies?

John Two Hawks

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kL5VjT002DM

I've been in contact with some pretty reliable sources that tell me this man is NOT known to be Lakota.  No one knows him as a Lakota, nor has anyone ever heard of his family in Lakota communites in North Dakota, South Dakota, etc.  He's been known to show up every now and then in some of the Lakota communities out there but thats about it.  The fraud is traveling around Europe presenting himself as "Lakota" and is misappropriating the Lakota name.  In that video I posted, he performed in Finland in front of 12,000 people and has done numerous public interviews speaking as an authority on Lakota culture and history.  This man is a fraud presenting himself as something he is not.

[Unegv Waya]

I must confess that I am ignorant about Douglas Spotted Eagle.  I've heard his music but had no idea he was misrepresenting himself until a few years ago when I heard some rumors that he was but no one told me how he was doing this or could offer anything that showed he was a fraud.  So, please educate me about DSE.

Wado

[Diana]

Here's a paragraph from Douglas spotted eagle,s website. It's from a 2001 statement where he is defending himself for winning a grammy in the American Indian catagory and for winning two Nammys. He admits he has no Native blood. My bold.


http://www.spottedeagle.com/gramstat.htm


Lastly, it was brought up by Herman Begay that Indian America is less-than-satisfied with my adoption by Lakota family 26 years ago and marriage into a Dine’ family as being or not being valid enough to have received a Grammy™ in the Native American category. To cut to the core of this point, the Grammy™’s are colorblind. It’s a music industry award, not a race award, not a color, religion, sexual preference, or cultural award. For years, people of various cultures have received Grammy™’s for their work on projects related to music divergent from their own culture. The producers of ALL Grammy™ nominated recordings in 2000 are non-Native, so at some level, this issue would be raised. For what it’s worth, I was dancing at powwow before the age of 13.  My family and I are proud that Tom and I were the recipients of the first-ever Native American Category Grammy™. I make no apology to anyone who is not satisfied with the voting of the 12,000 members of NARAS. I make no apology for the fact that while I was raised Native, I'm not of Native blood. If my person, skin color, or appearance don't meet with someone's prejudices, I offer no apology.  Readers also should clearly understand that at some very near point, it's likely a non-Native will win the Grammy™ in this category as a solo artist. It's ironic that if there had never been a Grammy™ Award, none of this would have ever been an issue. Be grateful everyone, for this terrific opportunity.


Lim lemtsh


Diana

[Unegv Waya]

Hm . . .

What he posted about how the award is given to the producers if no one artist on a release has at least 51% of the credit is correct.  That is how the industry does things.  He is also correct about the requirements, or lack thereof, to record, produce and submit music in any genre.  For example, one does not have to have black ancestry to be in the Soul genre.  The same is true for any of the indigenous or World genre music.  If a native artist wanted to record and produce a Reggae release there would be nothing to prevent his/her doing so or prevent the artist from being nominated for or receiving an award in that genre.  Those are the industry standards.

This is why I've advised some young native artists to look hard at the industry standards and the contractual obligations that even touring as a front group entails.  Some of the things that are SOP in the industry do not quite complement some traditions.

I don't know DSE.  Never met him either but those who I know in the industry who have worked with him have always said he never claims to be native by blood.  Thus, I still don't see where he is misrepresenting himself.

You see, when I saw this topic I thought he may have switched his format and was claiming he was native or was getting involved with endorsing some sort of wannbe ceremonial group or something like that.  Unless I've missed something, I don't see where he is making the claims that earmark a fraud.

[tawodi]

Douglas Wallentine (Douglas Spotted Eagle) has only been honest about having no blood in the last few years since his claim of "Lakota" was disproved.  When I first met him, he claimed Lakota but said his BQ was too low to enroll.  If you have ever seen him perform, he blatantly tries to give the impression that he is NDN to his audiences.  Now, he claims "adopted" and "raised" as Lakota.  Believe me, he was raised white and Mormon.  Many real Indians have worked with him over the years and he sucks credibility off them.  Some are still his friends and supporters.  Many are not.

[bls926]

I agree with Waya; if Douglas Spotted Eagle doesn't claim to be Native, why is he being called a fraud? Anyone, any race and/or ethnicity, can sing any type of music. These awards aren't given for the race/ethnicity of the performer, but for the type of music.

Was he adopted by a Lakota family twenty-six years ago? Was he dancing at powwows when he was thirteen? Is he married to a Dine woman? Seems like he's accepted by many Native people.


Switching "subjects" . . . John Two-Hawks . . . Does anyone know for a fact that he is not Lakota? Before we label him a fraud, I think more investigation is needed. I know there's a thread on Two-Hawks in Research Needed, but now he's been called a fraud on this thread. It seems that Two-Hawks has been doing what he does for quite a few years and has been accepted by many. He performed some of the music in HBO's Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee. There's pictures of Two-Hawks with Adam Beach on his website, as well as pictures with Lakota and Mvskoke. This doesn't necessarily prove he's Native, but it's something to think about. Yes, he conducts seminars and has written some questionable books, but that doesn't make him a fraud either. I know of enrolled Lakota who aren't above selling a ceremony or two from time to time. It isn't right, but it doesn't make them frauds. I think we should know, without a doubt, that someone is lying about who and what they are before we call them a fraud.

[Unegv Waya]

If he made that claim to you then that does put a different light on it, Tawodi.  I never knew that he had ever claimed to be native; only that he was raised in a native community.  As we have discussed here in other topics, being adopted by a native family does not mean one is a member of that tribe.

[BlackWolf]

If people want to present their music as Native inspired, then that’s all well and good.  But by people identifying as Native American Musicians, when from what’s know, they probably aren’t, this is nothing more then CULTURAL THEFT and they are STEALING one of the only things that Native people have left that they can claim. These people and people like them can win all the Nammys they want and identify as Indians all they want, but that’s NEVER going to make them Indian.  INDIAN BLOOD makes you Indian, not Nammy awards, not dressing up in buckskin, and not learning to speak Native languages.

bls926 said
 

It seems that Two-Hawks has been doing what he does for quite a few years and has been accepted by many. He performed some of the music in HBO's Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee. There's pictures of Two-Hawks with Adam Beach on his website, as well as pictures with Lakota and Mvskoke. This doesn't necessarily prove he's Native, but it's something to think about.

For me its not really something to think about.  All thats never going to make them Indian.  Just because he's accepted, is a talented musician, and has taken pictures with Indians doesn't really mean much as far as being Indian goes.

[critter - a white non-ndn person]

My 2cents. As an avid music lover.  Yes, I've heard DSE and I even have 1 maybe 2 of his cd's.. packed in a box somewhere or I'd dig them out and look them over.. maybe I will anyway, just take me a day or two to go through the boxes..

Anyway, thing is, is if I had looked at the cd in the store, and saw it was some white guy playing Native flute, I would not have bought it.  So, he had to have had *something* in there to make me think I was buying Native flute player music. 

I'm a little picky about my music, not saying a white person couldn't or wouldn't be able to play Native 'style' flute, because I do believe 'music' has a certain 'calling'..  but, I wouldn't buy without hearing it first, as I would be more inclined to buy without hearing if I believed the player was Native.  However, having said that..  I do like the cd I have, and am glad I purchased it.

However, I would not have without hearing it first if I'd known he was not Native.  Because, I believe 'music' is in some ways, like 'spirits' and in this context, in what I'd read earlier on the board, of 'spirits' 'belonging' to one or another culture, the spirit of the music does as well.  Doesn't mean I don't believe they (music and spirits) cannot be with some other, .. I mean, who am I to say what a music or spirit is going to choose to do?  But, I would not buy Native flute music played by a white guy unless I'd heard it first.

I'm picky about my music. I think most of the radio music these days is void of anything but a lot of noise.  To me, music, real music, comes through when no one is looking, or acting the part, it is a humble player who plays for the music, and not for the audience.

So, if you look at in the regard that I purchased because I believed he was Native, then it was fraud.  But I'll have to dig out the cd (it's an old one) and take another look.  Maybe I missed something on it.. 

[BlackWolf]

I think the Nammys ( Native American Music Awards ) uses the Self Identification Criteria.   So basically anyone can learn to play a Native American flute, get good enough at it and win a Native American Music Award..  Considering the fact that virtually every white person in the South Eastern United States claims to be part Cherokee, than we're talking about A LOT of people that would qualify under the self identification criteria. . I think if people want to identify as a Native American Musician, then it should be based on some reasonable evidence.  Not necessarily that you have to be enrolled with a Federally Recognized Tribe, but at least that one can REASONABLY say that your Indian.  I think in a sense, all of these questionable claims have really tarnished the industry.

Critter said
 

Anyway, thing is, is if I had looked at the cd in the store, and saw it was some white guy playing Native flute, I would not have bought it.  So, he had to have had *something* in there to make me think I was buying Native flute player music.

 

I think Critter has a very good point and I don't think that she is the only one that thinks this way either.  When someone walks into a Music Store or somewhere else, and they want to buy Native American Music, then I would assume that they want music that is actually performed by a Native American Musician.  Its just like if I wanted to purchase authentic Tibetan Music, I would want that music to be performed by actual Tibetan people.  Even though others could probably replicate Tibetan Music fairly accurately, it would never be the same thing as listening to the “Real Thing”.  The other part of it, is that I know cases of Real Indians, who come from Traditional Comminutes who are being cut out of the market by these questionable “Native American Musicians”. 

[Diana]

I looked up the membership application and nomination submission form on the nammy website and there is nothing specific about nominee's being Indian. But on the entry forms, page 3, it does ask for Tribal Affiliation and a Tribal Community Reference. I also noticed on page 6 under catagory guidelines at the bottom it has this: NATIVE HEART For an artist of non-native heritage who has contributed to an eligible recording.

It seems a little confusing, hmmm.





http://www.nativeamericanmusicawards.com/howtonominate.cfm

http://content.bandzoogle.com/users/wwwnativeamericanmusicawardsco/files/NAMA11-Submission-membership-forms.pdf



Lim lemtsh,

Diana

[critter - a white non-ndn person]

Well, as far as 'nammys' and 'grammys'..  that's the music industry.. and I think they have a different look at it in terms of sales, more or less. Some very talented people will never see an award, because they aren't on the music charts.  I personally have a itch about the entire music industry and how they exploit music to the point that half the stuff 'available' to people is canned and modeled and many times it's just replication of what sold before..  once in a great while a real music will surface in the industry and make the charts..  but not often enough for my tastes.  

So, it is not surprising to me that anyone who can 'sell' their music can get an award.  It doesn't matter if the person playing is white, native, black, or whatever.. what matters is that the 'consensus' among the industry and industry followers agree that it's the best and gets the award.  

I've heard crap music get such awards and I can't believe it.  Therefore, I never watch the grammys, nammys or any such shows anymore.  Not when I've heard music that blows them out of the water.. but is never played on the 'charts' because well, you have to pay people to play your music on the radio, and if they play it a lot, then the general public thinks it must be a good song because it's played 30 times a day..  ho hum.. Sorry, my rant.. just don't like the industry.  And I don't put much credit on what they 'sell' with their awards..


edit:  I should add that I throw the 'nammys' in here with the 'grammy' type shows because I'm so turned off from these types of shows.. however, I can't say I ever saw the 'nammys' so maybe it is a different setup and not about the dollar and mass public brainwashing... 

[bls926]

BlackWolf, I'm not saying that hanging out with Indians, dressing like an Indian, getting your picture taken with Indians, will make you Indian. The point I was trying to make is that we don't know that John Two-Hawks isn't Lakota and obviously there are many who do accept him. Before we label someone a liar and a fraud, we need facts. So far, we have none.