Author Topic: Passing as Native Musicians  (Read 146197 times)

Offline Rattlebone

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Re: Passing as Native Musicians
« Reply #75 on: February 18, 2010, 02:00:37 am »

Personally I would choose number 1 and number 8.


 Both of those can possibly make to where people in situations 2 through 7 can be to some degree recognized as NDN for whatever purposes necessary since for the most part they are situations with people  having legitimate claims.

 When the UKB though Churchill was going to be an asset to them, they sorta did 1 & 8 even though his claims can not be proven.

Offline Rattlebone

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Re: Passing as Native Musicians
« Reply #76 on: February 18, 2010, 02:37:01 am »
 post deleted to not derail thread
« Last Edit: February 18, 2010, 04:39:31 am by Rattlebone »

Offline Moma_porcupine

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Re: Passing as Native Musicians
« Reply #77 on: February 18, 2010, 03:31:55 am »
Rattlebone
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I too do not believe in the concept of "being part Indian." You either are Indian or you are not, and to me that is usually determined by the community around you.

Well apparently you don't feel secure enough in your own identity to be able to allow others to have a discussion about unenrolled people who have some Native heritage being in a different situation, when it comes to their rights and responsibilites, than people who are enrolled in a federally recognized community or are close to 1/2 of Native descent.... . It seems almost every time people try to discuss what may be appropriate boundaries for distant descensents to respect, you feel it is a threat to your own identity, and you get personally defensive or offensive.

Rattlebone
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No, I have defended people with legitimate claims. It's my understanding that the word PODIA is just a simple way to say somebody has a great grandma story they can't prove.

So , when there is a conflict , it sounds like you feel anyone with any amount of Native blood who is a member of what they decide is a Native community, has rights that are just as important to defend as   continuosly existing indigenous Nations rights to control maintain and benifit from their own resources and culture?

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It's my understanding that the word PODIA is just a simple way to say somebody has a great grandma story they can't prove.

According to my rule book ( heh   8)) thats a wannabe .. My definition of a PODIA is people who are less than 1/4 - 1/8 BQ OR more than 2 generations removed from an ancestor who lived in a visible recognized Native community.

But Rattlebone ...a lot of what you are wanting to dispute  doesn't even seem to belong in this thread.  I guess we have all wandered a bit...
 
I still think it would be interesting if we could start a thread to discuss what is the characteristics of  a Native community that has the right to  recognize other people as NDN , and what is just some wannabes or PODIAs getting together and yelling " yes we are !!!"....
« Last Edit: February 18, 2010, 03:45:50 am by Moma_porcupine »

Offline bls926

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Re: Passing as Native Musicians
« Reply #78 on: February 18, 2010, 05:14:36 am »
post deleted to not derail thread

« Last Edit: Today at 10:39:31 PM by Rattlebone »


Good decision, Rattle.

Offline BlackWolf

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Re: Passing as Native Musicians
« Reply #79 on: February 18, 2010, 08:21:50 pm »
I was wondering how this sort of thing works with First Nations People in Canada.  Would Arvel Bird be considered a Native American Musician over here because of his enrolled Metis status in Canada?  He claims to be Paiute Heritage but isn't enrolled with them, but he is enrolled with a Metis Nation in Canada.

Offline Ric_Richardson

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Re: Passing as Native Musicians
« Reply #80 on: February 18, 2010, 09:43:02 pm »
Tansi;

Having looked at some of the websites that speak of Arvel Bird being registered as Metis, I believe that he may have paid his money to become a member of the Ontario Metis Aboriginal Association (OMAA), an organization that has no standards other than the ability to pay for membership.  We do not have a "Metis Tribe" in Canada.

The Metis Nation of Ontario, an affiliate of the Metis National Council (MNC) has strict criteria, in order to be able to become a member and I do not believe that this extends to people who are not descended from the historic Metis Nation.

The fact that a number of organizations have come about, in order to take advantage of various Rights, recognized by the Canadian Constitution Act 1982, for Metis people, is one of the factors in the decision to develop registries of Metis people, which include proof of geneological connection to the Metis Nation.

We hope, someday, to have a registry of Metis families and people, in order to avoid this type of confusion, and are currently working toward this.
Ric

Offline BlackWolf

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Re: Passing as Native Musicians
« Reply #81 on: February 18, 2010, 10:09:03 pm »
Quote
Posted by: Ric_Richardson 
Insert Quote
Tansi;

Having looked at some of the websites that speak of Arvel Bird being registered as Metis, I believe that he may have paid his money to become a member of the Ontario Metis Aboriginal Association (OMAA), an organization that has no standards other than the ability to pay for membership.  We do not have a "Metis Tribe" in Canada.

The Metis Nation of Ontario, an affiliate of the Metis National Council (MNC) has strict criteria, in order to be able to become a member and I do not believe that this extends to people who are not descended from the historic Metis Nation.

The fact that a number of organizations have come about, in order to take advantage of various Rights, recognized by the Canadian Constitution Act 1982, for Metis people, is one of the factors in the decision to develop registries of Metis people, which include proof of geneological connection to the Metis Nation.

We hope, someday, to have a registry of Metis families and people, in order to avoid this type of confusion, and are currently working toward this.
Ric 


Thanks for clearing that up Ric.  I know when he ( Arvel Bird ) does his performance he claims that he is Southern Paiute but can't enroll, but then he always says he's enrolled Metis of Canada.  I would assume that this means his parent or grandparents were also enrolled Metis.  If he has no connection to Canada or Metis people I don't know why he would claim this?  Other then maybe to make himself look more impressive then he really is?

Offline Defend the Sacred

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Re: Passing as Native Musicians
« Reply #82 on: February 18, 2010, 10:22:41 pm »
Well, we get more and more people all the time who seem to think "Metis" simply means "mixed blood". All sorts of PODIAs, or nons with a rumoured gggg-something calling themselves "Metis". It's a real problem.

Offline BlackWolf

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Re: Passing as Native Musicians
« Reply #83 on: February 18, 2010, 11:53:38 pm »
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Well, we get more and more people all the time who seem to think "Metis" simply means "mixed blood".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCXkSthGM7Q

On this video interview when he's in the canoe, he says " I'm Metis, or mixed blood of Paitue and....."  If someone isn't from Canada, I wonder why they would use this term "Metis" as opposed to Mixed Blood? 

Offline Defend the Sacred

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Re: Passing as Native Musicians
« Reply #84 on: February 18, 2010, 11:59:54 pm »
Because it sounds more "exotic".  :-[  A lot of the clueless Americans who call themselves "Metis" don't even know there's such a thing as a Canadian Metis Nation.

Offline tachia

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Re: Passing as Native Musicians
« Reply #85 on: February 19, 2010, 01:29:02 am »
wondering .. perhaps part of the "clueless american" use of the word Metis comes from confusing it with the word Mestizo .. or perhaps more aptly, mangling the word Mestizo into the word Metis .. i have met entirely clueless people who think they are the same word, think that Mestizo is just spanish for Metis .. .. lol .. ..

Offline flyingdust

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Re: Passing as Native Musicians
« Reply #86 on: February 19, 2010, 04:33:26 am »
Let me throw my dog into the fight.  First, here's a joke:  How can you tell a native musician has made it in the music industry?  All his backups are white musicians.  lol.  About 10 years ago I heard a radio interview of well known and respected old timer in the music industry in Canada who was asked, what is the next big music trend in North America? His answer was: Native American music.  We've seen the trends go from rock to hip hop, for example, and now people are looking for something new.  We are beginning to see a Native American music trend emerging today in the Americas and in parts of Europe.  But along with that we are seeing many non-native musicians jumping on the band wagon, so-to-speak, claiming to be Indians (and mainly Cherokee) and exploiting the growing fascination with our Indigenous music.

The Native American music that's getting the most attention in the music Industry is the type that blends traditional Native American instruments and melody with contemporary music like rock and hip hop. The artist or band that does this best and sells the most CDs gets the music awards.  That's how the music industry works.  But so far, I have not heard any Native American hybrid music that does anything for me ...I'm waiting.

I saw John Two Hawks’ on the You tube that Blackwolf posted.  I was impressed by his talent and performance.  I think this was due in part to the really great world stage calibre musicians he had backing him up.  He did well in blending traditional Native American melody with rock.  Still, his music sounds mainstream new age, you know, noble savage-like.  Further, I was disappointed and a bit offended that here was a guy who is clearly non-native passing himself off as a native musician garb and all.

However, I saw the video of Arvil Bird that BlackWolf presented in his post.  I think he is who he says he is – a mixed blood.  Don’t ask me why I just sense that he is.  Métis is a French word and in Canada Métis people go by different names, including Mixed Blood, Half Breed, and Country Born. These terms are used interchangeably.  In general, Métis can also mean someone born or descended from the union of a European and an Amerindian.  There are many Métis in Canada who are not signed up as members of a Métis organization.  I agree, it is very difficult to tell or determine who is Métis or Indian nowadays, as some (registered and unregistered alike) look totally white for all intents and purposes.

Seems to me the confusion about who should produce and perform Native American music is further exasperated by the so-called Native American or Aboriginal music awards in North America, while they themselves are at best cheap glitz and glam imitations of the Grammies or the Juno Awards.  People are given awards for emulating best country, rock, and hip hop, all genres that are not originally Native American.   Pow wow and possibly round dance are exceptions, but they’re relegated to lesser important categories.  This is classic colonized behaviour.

Despite all the fake Native musicians and native awards in the music industry, there are real Native American musicians making their way onto the music scene.  These musicians are sincere, creative, experienced and well versed in traditional Native American and contemporary music alike, and they are producing music that's true to the Spirit of life and true to themselves as Indigenous Americans.  But right now they’re still doing their thing in pow wows and round dances, and in basements and garages.  8)

Offline Defend the Sacred

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Re: Passing as Native Musicians
« Reply #87 on: February 19, 2010, 04:45:44 am »
flyingdust, your post makes me think of the band in Sherman Alexie's Reservation Blues, the music biz executives, and the ones who eventually become famous as "Indian Musicians".

Offline BlackWolf

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Re: Passing as Native Musicians
« Reply #88 on: February 19, 2010, 04:37:57 pm »
flying dust said

Quote
However, I saw the video of Arvil Bird that BlackWolf presented in his post.  I think he is who he says he is – a mixed blood.  Don’t ask me why I just sense that he is.  Métis is a French word and in Canada Métis people go by different names, including Mixed Blood, Half Breed, and Country Born. These terms are used interchangeably.  In general, Métis can also mean someone born or descended from the union of a European and an Amerindian.  There are many Métis in Canada who are not signed up as members of a Métis organization.  I agree, it is very difficult to tell or determine who is Métis or Indian nowadays, as some (registered and unregistered alike) look totally white for all intents and purposes.


I can see what you’re saying flying dust.  And of course no one really knows his true status as a Métis, but according to Ric_Ricardson, there are so called Métis organizations in Canada that are really no more than heritage clubs.  And if he himself is basing this "Métis" identity on his being of Paiute heritage from the United States, and based on that “mixed blood” status he enrolled with a Metis organization in Canada that has no strict standards for enrollment, then he is being misleading.  And as Kathryn points out, some use this term because it appears more exotic.  And as I pointed out, he POSSIBLY could be using the term to make himself look more impressive.  Also, as in the case of the Fake Cherokee Tribes diluting the identity of the authentic ones, I believe if he did join one of these Métis orgs that don't require any kind of proof of descent from authentic Métis people, then that is just diluting the identity of the Métis organizations that are the authentic. 

Ric_Ricardson said
Quote
Having looked at some of the websites that speak of Arvel Bird being registered as Métis, I believe that he may have paid his money to become a member of the Ontario Métis Aboriginal Association (OMAA), an organization that has no standards other than the ability to pay for membership.

Offline Adept

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Re: Passing as Native Musicians
« Reply #89 on: February 20, 2010, 02:12:00 am »
I just stumbled about John Two-Feather on this websides:

Hey gang!  If you don't know me, I'm a regular at Native Web on the boards, and have been for a while.  I'm just a simple Lakota dude who Creator-God, Wakantanka, has been very good to.  I travel the country to concert halls, colleges, schools, museums, camps and churches- to share with all people the power of diversity, the truth of America's history, and the importance of mending and healing the sacred hoop of the Nations of the world.  I am a poet, a musician, a teacher and a stage and film actor. 
I also write free-lance for a magazine and try my very best at being a good husband and daddy!
http://user.tninet.se/~tqw855l/fam_gallery/photogallery/two_hawks/twohawks.htm

Born of Native blood, they ride the wind, releasing their songs from the deep places....
http://thebadlanders.com/
http://www.manataka.org/page776.html

Individuals Operating In Arkansas:
The following individuals, who either live in Arkansas or travel to the state for various events, are suspected to either exploit, misappropriate, or otherwise mislead the public on their backgrounds or qualifications.  Not included in this list are the numerous officers and officials of the suspect "tribes" and organizations found in the state.  It is advised that before you have any dealings or associations with these individuals, check their claims carefully and in depth.
Johnny "Two Hawks" Hill (Eureka Springs, AR area).....
http://www.aihsc.info/ARMO_fraud.htm

Also in addition found a webpage who selling music cd´s in the opinion to provide original made by Native American musicians (but I guess this webside holder from Germany not know all scamster):
http://www.indianermusik.de