finding relatives (was: something i wish was real)

[dabosijigwokush]

a blood test kit to tell if you are native or not
i want one to go to every pow wow
and lets see how many will refuse to take it
and how many fail



_{[changed title of thread -k]}

[Yiwah]

a blood test kit to tell if you are native or not
i want one to go to every pow wow
and lets see how many will refuse to take it
and how many fail

Ha, aren't there all sorts of DNA kits you can buy online in the US?

Your context might be different...where I`m from, non-natives are too damn scared of the Reserves to show up to a pow-wow, and everyone knows everyone.  If there are non-natives brave enough to participate, they`re usually welcomed. 

[nemesis]

I would love to take such a test as my family has a lot of stories about ancestors that I have no idea are true.

We had an interesting TV programme about this kind of genetic testing where various public figures and members of the public were tested.  One interesting result was that a well known bigoted newspaper columnist, Gary Bushell, was shown to be 10% African and a racist white woman was shown to be of gypsy ancestry.  her reaction to the news was priceless, sadly I can't find a video

http://www.martinfrost.ws/htmlfiles/nov2006/you_think.html

[critter - a white non-ndn person]

I'd love to do this 'genetic journey' to find my oldest genetic relatives.

https://genographic.nationalgeographic.com/genographic/lan/en/journey.html

[earthw7]

a blood test kit to tell if you are native or not
i want one to go to every pow wow
and lets see how many will refuse to take it
and how many fail

Ha, aren't there all sorts of DNA kits you can buy online in the US?

Your context might be different...where I`m from, non-natives are too damn scared of the Reserves to show up to a pow-wow, and everyone knows everyone.  If there are non-natives brave enough to participate, they`re usually welcomed. 

Too funny it is true here on my reservation too, the people who live around us would die if they found out they had native blood. It is they people who live away from the reservation who are always claiming to have a great great great great grandma who is native.

[Defend the Sacred]

There are lots of "white" southerners who have Black ancestors.  A lot of them refuse to admit it.  I'm pretty sure the small percentage of my ancestry that's not documented has some Black lines in there. (My great aunt was a genealogist, so I'm ridiculously documented.)

When I was growing up in Illinois, I just assumed everyone whose family has been here for awhile has some NDN ancestors. In my case, the side of my family that isn't made up of recent Irish immigrants has a couple branches of the family tree with darker people of unclear origins. Add in family stories about various NDN friends and neighbors, all mixed in with the stories about blood ancestors and I grew up assuming some of my ancestors were NDN.

Then about ten years ago we found out that line of the family wasn't NDN... they were Jews! Ha! Jews who married Irish people and hung out with NDNs, but... Jews.

It didn't change anything for me. Since they fully assimilated into the Irish family they married into, no one really knew what their culture had been. While it's sad they had to hide who they were, I also think it's oddly funny. I could be an Adult Onset Jew! ... Nah.

On another branch I have Ross and Harris ancestry, so I have a ton of NDN *relatives*, but it's unclear whether I have any NDN *ancestry*.  The names of my ancestors that are on the Dawes rolls are really common names. (William and Mary Ross), and there are multiple people with those names who were the right age. While it's interesting, I haven't really pursued it because, again, I didn't grow up in any NDN culture and neither did my parents, grandparents, or great-grandparents.

I'm glad I grew up assuming I had some NDN ancestors. I think it gave me a feeling of responsibility to support NDN political causes, and a sense of solidarity with Indigenous struggles. But I always knew I wasn't NDN. And I think people who believe they can change their ethnicity are pretty bizarre. 

[critter - a white non-ndn person]

That's interesting Kathryn.  I would like to do that National Geographic gene journey because my family history is not really that traceable.. even if I were able to get to Lithuania, I doubt anyone there would really be able to tell me anything with the very scant information I have on my gm and gf..  I'm 2nd generation in America on both sides (I believe.. possible 3rd on my mom's side from one or another gparent) I know my mom's dad was from Germany, and I've always just believed my mom's mom was also immigrant from Germany.. making me a 2nd generation here. 

But I would find it fascinating if that gene journey could locate the origins of my maternal and paternal side.. I know there's no ndn, but I wouldn't be surprised to find Mongolian perhaps..  I don't know how spiritual things or ancestors line up with genetics.. none on my dad's side are religious.. and most seem to lean, if they lean at all, towards a more Buddhist approach to life. Most of the cousins I know of from that side were raised to some degree into Christian beliefs, since my dad's brother's married women who were Christian.. My mom's side I don't feel kinship with, but a gene journey may surprise me and perhaps what I know as my own spiritual way comes from them, but I just doubt that.  I believe it comes from my dad's side.  My personal family however, my parents, didn't teach us any spiritual ideologies at all. 

So, the big question in my life has always been.. 'so where did all this come from that is inside of me?'  I have no clue.. it's been a long life of learning a belief from within that I'm not even sure has any real roots anywhere.. ?

I was never 'drawn' to ndn ways until I needed healing at a deep emotional level and then it just sort of fell into my lap.. so to speak.. and the people who welcomed me were quite generous and *real* and I would never betray them.  I have a high ethical level within me that some complain is too high, but sorry.. there are some things that are just "law" to me.. and one of those things is being loyal and true to my word. I don't step on people nor use them.

Yes, I read the Castaneda books, but it didn't have me running around looking for ndn's to teach me..

Another part of me that I was raised with was the knowing that the spiritual is not for sale. Period.  I actually tried when I was facing being homeless.. but I could never quite 'sell' my life like that.. to me, selling ones spirit is akin to being a whore.  jmo.

Supporting the indigenous peoples right to keep their spiritual ways sacred and safe is just something 'in' me.. I see it as rape and am disgusted by it.  I don't need to get anything for or out of lending my voice or my support towards the health and security of another people's spiritual ground and life. I do it because it's the right thing to do.  My life isn't anything like the ndn's nor is my spiritual beliefs..  I have no desire to change who I am.. I just want to know where I came from..

[Laurel]

There are lots of "white" southerners who have Black ancestors.  A lot of them refuse to admit it. 

I doubt you could find a white person in the US who doesn't have "one drop" of "black blood"--which used to be enough to enslave a person if it was proven.

Being adopted and having a first mother who won't tell me who my father is means I'll never know, but I'd bet money on there being some African-American in this Southern white woman.

[Yiwah]

Too funny it is true here on my reservation too, the people who live around us would die if they found out they had native blood. It is they people who live away from the reservation who are always claiming to have a great great great great grandma who is native.

Yeah...I didn't encounter my first 'wannabe' until I moved to the city.  And that person was from Toronto... I mean even the cities on the Prairies are full of people who would be ashamed to find out they had a native or even half-native grandma/grandpa.  I see it a lot more out east here, and yeah I think it's distance from the Rez that really does do it, for whatever reason.

[bls926]

My thoughts on DNA testing . . . If the only way you can "prove" you're Indian is thru a DNA test, then you aren't Indian. So what if you have one or two drops of Indian blood. That doesn't make you Indian. If you don't know you're Indian, the damn test isn't going to make you one, regardless of what the results are.

[critter - a white non-ndn person]

My thoughts on DNA testing . . . If the only way you can "prove" you're Indian is thru a DNA test, then you aren't Indian. So what if you have one or two drops of Indian blood. That doesn't make you Indian. If you don't know you're Indian, the damn test isn't going to make you one, regardless of what the results are.

I agree.  I'm not ndn, and whatever my dna would say wouldn't change who I am.. but, I would really like to know just where my family came from.    eh.. out of context of the conversation, perhaps, but there may be people who just want to know where they came form.. of course.. for the tons who wannabe.. I agree completely with you Bls. 

[earthw7]

There are lots of "white" southerners who have Black ancestors.  A lot of them refuse to admit it.  I'm pretty sure the small percentage of my ancestry that's not documented has some Black lines in there. (My great aunt was a genealogist, so I'm ridiculously documented.)

When I was growing up in Illinois, I just assumed everyone whose family has been here for awhile has some NDN ancestors. In my case, the side of my family that isn't made up of recent Irish immigrants has a couple branches of the family tree with darker people of unclear origins. Add in family stories about various NDN friends and neighbors, all mixed in with the stories about blood ancestors and I grew up assuming some of my ancestors were NDN.

Then about ten years ago we found out that line of the family wasn't NDN... they were Jews! Ha! Jews who married Irish people and hung out with NDNs, but... Jews.

It didn't change anything for me. Since they fully assimilated into the Irish family they married into, no one really knew what their culture had been. While it's sad they had to hide who they were, I also think it's oddly funny. I could be an Adult Onset Jew! ... Nah.

On another branch I have Ross and Harris ancestry, so I have a ton of NDN *relatives*, but it's unclear whether I have any NDN *ancestry*.  The names of my ancestors that are on the Dawes rolls are really common names. (William and Mary Ross), and there are multiple people with those names who were the right age. While it's interesting, I haven't really pursued it because, again, I didn't grow up in any NDN culture and neither did my parents, grandparents, or great-grandparents.

I'm glad I grew up assuming I had some NDN ancestors. I think it gave me a feeling of responsibility to support NDN political causes, and a sense of solidarity with Indigenous struggles. But I always knew I wasn't NDN. And I think people who believe they can change their ethnicity are pretty bizarre. 

I hate to say this but maybe you could be related to me!! I have a branch of my family who came from Michigan who are Harris,

[Defend the Sacred]

HA! I'll turn up on your doorstep and call you "cousin"

Apparently one of my Harris ancestors, who was a blacksmith, moved out to Montana quite a few generations ago, and has descendants among a few of the plains tribes. I haven't heard of any L/D/N relatives, but it's possible.

The family was huge and I'm unclear which Harrises stayed in Indiana and which went west. The blacksmith/gunsmith in Indiana (Charles Trussel Harris b. 1/17/1797, d. 7/21/1880) was a bit controversial among the other white people because he made guns for the NDNs (family records do not say which tribes). His daughter, Nancy Harris (b. 5/27/1833, d. 6/16/1910, Fountain Co. IN), my ggg-grandmother, was a midwife and healer. She had over a dozen children. She was harassed by the law for "practicing medicine without a license" (!) As if they'd give rural healer women a license in those days, even if they were white. The doctors didn't like the competition. I've sometimes wondered if their friendships and trade with the NDNs is one of the reasons she was hassled.

I've got my great-aunt's musty old, handwritten journals here, and can dig up more names and PM them if you like.

[dabosijigwokush]

looks like i started a genealogy page lol

[earthw7]

wow, not geneology just finding relatives