My recent post was moved to a separate thread here:
http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=2722.0In that thread, I asked about sticking with the original thread, and Superdog wrote:
you can reply in the Trueblood thread if it's on topic. However, be more clear as your questions appear to be "baiting" of some sort.
To be clear, then, my first post addressed educatedindian's statement about Sequoyah that
He's doing pay to pray ceremonies of traditions he has no right to teach anyway since the ceremonies he claims to do aren't Cherokee or Choctaw.
In response to my post seeking clarification, Superdog wrote:
He's saying he's doing pay to pray ceremonies that are based on other tribes traditions (not Cherokee/Choctaw) and he has no right to do so since Trueblood is Cherokee/Choctaw and not from those tribes.
It seemed to me that, in addition to the issue of money, Superdog's statement implied two things:
- A specific set of circumstances in regard to Sequoyah's background, on the one hand, and his ceremonies, on the other
- A general principle according to which this specific set of circumstances is deemed unethical
My subsequent posts were directed toward clarifying these two interrelated points. In the new thread (see link above), I asked Superdog if his view is that "One can only legitimately do ceremonies based on the traditions of the people into which one is born." In response, he clarified that:
[this] question is more difficult to answer as it is the standards of the community and land where spiritual ways originate that would dictate the answer to that one and answers may conflict from community to community.
Now, I would like to continue the discussion with the goal of clarifying both the ethical principles being applied and the specific circumstances (involving Sequoyah) to which they are being applied.
Given Superdog's clarification that different communities may have different opinions on whether someone from another community can practice their ceremonies, it seems to me that his original statement should be modified. Originally, he said that Sequoyah "has no right" to do "ceremonies that are based on other tribes traditions" because he "is Cherokee/Choctaw and not from those tribes". So in this original statement, it seemed that Superdog was suggesting a categorical rule, but now it seems that we have agreed that it cannot be stated as a categorical rule. Based on Superdog's recent post, it would seem that the question of whether Sequoyah can legitimately practice ceremonies from another community would have to be answered by members of that community (although of course there may be conflicting opinions even within a given community).
As for the specific ceremonies that Sequoyah conducts and where they come from, Superdog wrote:
vision quests and pipe ceremonies are not Cherokee/Choctaw ways
So the question, then, if I understand correctly, would be what sort of permission (if any) Sequoyah received from whoever taught him these ceremonies. But that's a different issue than simply stating that Sequoyah cannot practice them because he is "not from those tribes".
Superdog also wrote:
the interpretations of aliens and the "spirit canoe" are not from any tribes traditions, yet he says they are.
Are you saying that the idea of a "spirit canoe" is not from any tribes' traditions, or just that Sequoyah's interpretation is wrong? If the former, then what about the Coast Salish spirit-canoe, for instance? And if the latter, then what are you saying is Sequoyah's interpretation?
As for aliens, are you saying that Sequoyah says his alien teachings are Indian teachings? If yes, what specifically did he say in that regard? If no, then what's the problem with talking about aliens based on one's own (alleged) experiences?
