a question about sweat lodges

[nemesis]

I have never attended a sweat lodge and my entire knowledge about them has been gained from this website but I am curious about them having recently watched a film about the No Mind festival in Sweden where they do have sweat lodges.

The sweat lodge they showed in the film was full of white people, many of whom were coughing and choking when the hot stones were placed inside.

I have enjoyed saunas and steam rooms so I know what it is like to be in a very hot place, but surely smoke inside a sweat lodge or sauna is not a good thing?

Is it usual for people to be coughing inside a sweat lodge?

The entire festival looked insane to be fair.

There were some very obvious frauds there including one man whose ridiculous demonstration of no touch martial arts (PMSL) left a woman injured and in pain when he crashed into her by accident.

Also lots footage of white people of chanting.  Haya haya haya etc.

It was horrible.

In fact a few short clips might be interesting to post when I have a moment.

Genuine questions re the sweat lodge.  Is it usually smoky inside?

[critter - a white non-ndn person]

I never noticed any smoke, nor did I cough.

[earthw7]

No in our ceremonies there is no smoke that comes from people
not knowing what they are doing, we do not chant but sing song with words
in our language

[nemesis]

Thank you for the replies, I very much appreciate them.

My main concern is about safety.

A lot of the people attending seemed quite naive and overly trusting and I am concerned about these sweat lodges given what happened in Sedona.

I'm not sure when I will be able to do it but I'm sure I can rip a few minutes of the film for review purposes as I would be interested to hear what others think about how they are doing things.

There are some clips on youtube about the film, which is called Three Miles North of Molkom

here is a trailer

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4CSP3WR9duw

and here is a clip that is very interesting

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NlhIuJ-y8k&feature=related

There are other short videos about the festival on youtube, a search for  Ängsbacka + "no mind" will bring them up.  I have not had a chance to check them out yet but there may be some clips of their sweat lodges there.

[Defend the Sacred]

There are lots of people who go to these sorts of festivals and lead fake sweats. Often they've only read books, or attended fake sweats with people who attended a real one, but were never actually trained in how to do it. Often they think that it's to their credit that they change the ceremony around, add new things, call it by a different name. They think if they alter it they will avoid people like us calling them pretendians. But they are ignorant about safety protocols (physical and spiritual) and so they endanger themselves with their bad rituals, as well as anyone naive enough to trust them.

And usually the non-Natives are totally ignorant about the training and authorization required to lead a ceremony. Nons show up at these things wearing pilfered regalia, spouting nonsense about "My many Native teachers" and the nons have no idea there's anything wrong. ("Wow. He learned from REAL INDIANS. Cool.")

Pretty much every Neopagan gathering has one of these going on. There are people who claim to be against exploitation of ceremony who attend these things, and just look the other way, because it feeds their egos and lines their pockets to be hired as a presenter.

[Superdog]

The movie looks hilarious.  It's called Three Miles North of Molkom and appears to a be a fake comedic documentary along the lines of Spinal Tap, Fear of a Black Hat, etc.

The second clip you posted was great, I couldn't stop laughing.  These appears to be a film lightly mocking the new agers and I wouldn't put too much stock in it.  Didn't see the clip you mentioned earlier, but I'd guess the coughing et al was added in for comedic purposes.

Superdog

[Defend the Sacred]

I'm still watching the clips, but like listening to Wishbone Ash or Uriah Heap after watching Spinal Tap - and not being able to stop laughing - the satire is soooo close to the reality. I swear, I've met those people.

[nemesis]

The movie is hilarious in parts but it is a factual documentary and all the hippies are real people.

The weirdo instructor with the plummy English accent is a real person who teaches "inversion therapy" (hanging upside down), tantra (surprise surprise), shamanism (yawn) and a variety of fake martial arts. 

The skeptical Aussie guy is a real star and his comments are really refreshing and often very funny, however half way through the documentary he hooks up with a hippy girl and unfortunately he turns into one of them.

Depending on your life experience and where you stand the film is either a heart warming account of how an uptight young man learns to become open to emotional and spiritual experiences, or a chilling account of how a mental healthy, normal, skeptical young man can be transformed into a deluded hippy over the course of a week, simply by peer pressure and constant expose to crazy and unreal experiences.

Personally I favour the latter description. 

[critter - a white non-ndn person]

I'm sort of surprised the MTV people didn't come forward and state their Dudesons was a comedy on the 'wannabe'.. making fun of the wannabe and how stupid, misinformed, and gullible the wannbe is.. 

Personally, I can't watch much of either of these..  if this North to Molkom is supposed to be a comedy, it's not my sense of
humor.. nor was Spinal Tap for that matter..

[emeraldsunsets]

I work in a facility, I can't say much about it due to it being a government agency, but the native americans have a sweat lodge. I, too, have seen it get smoky and they cough, but because they put an herb (lobelia?) on the fire to help with one of their members with asthma. Also it gets extremely hot in there...over 130 degrees or more. It can't be very safe, and they always complain that I am a woman, so I cannot open up the flap, or tread on their ground to check on them.

[Rattlebone]

It can't be very safe,

 Huh?

Sweats can be unsafe if they are being ran by somebody who doesn't know what they are doing and should not be running them in the first place. Most often the only times when they are unsafe is when they are being ran by some NON native who is just running them because they are an exploiter and do not know what they are doing.

 As far as them not wanting you in there because you are a woman. There are religious beliefs behind that, and so they have a very good reason to not want you there.

 I am sure you didn't mean to, but to me your post here almost comes across as disrespectful to the religious beliefs of others whom you don't understand.

[Defend the Sacred]

The prisons haven't always been good about making sure the "Native Americans" who lead sweats are Native, let alone trained and qualified to lead a sweat properly. There have even been problems where non-Natives have gotten in good with the prison administration, and led bizarre rituals they tell people are Native, while the actual Native people in the facility are left out in the cold with no rights (or rites).

I can't speak to the use of Lobelia in sweat ceremonies, or its effects when burned in quantity in that setting, but it's an herb to be careful with. It is possible to overdose on it in tea form, with cardiac symptoms resulting. I would be very careful about making sure someone using it knows what they are doing.

[emeraldsunsets]

I was not being disrespectful, nor was I generalizing about just any sweat lodge ritual, I was just simply offering an answer to the first post..."are sweat lodges supposed to be smoky."

I never claimed to be native, nor did it say you have to be native to post here.
I never claimed I knew everything either. I was simply offering guidance.

[emeraldsunsets]

Yes Kathryn, sadly, a few of them actually know what they are doing, but alot of them are paper indians, and just follow along with whoever is conducting the ceremony. Alot of it may be due to be able to smoke tobacco, since the facility has a smoke ban.

[Rattlebone]

I was not being disrespectful, nor was I generalizing about just any sweat lodge ritual, I was just simply offering an answer to the first post..."are sweat lodges supposed to be smoky."

I never claimed to be native, nor did it say you have to be native to post here.
I never claimed I knew everything either. I was simply offering guidance.

To answer your question, yes they can be smokey.

I apologize but I can't to feel that you are somebody who works for the prison industry and really does have issues with natives practicing their religion within the prison system when it comes to sweats and things. If I am wrong, please explain your position on that so that I may stand corrected.

 The attitude that it is not a real religion to be given respect that Christianity gets, is in fact a problem with the prison system in many states. It has been well documented over the years that many NDN inmates have to fight very hard to be able to practice their sacred ways while incarcerated.

 

but alot of them are paper indians

 The term paper indian usually means somebody who is "enrolled in their tribe" but are not practicing the tribal culture, has no ties to the people and so and and so forth.

 So I don't know what you mean by "paper Indian" in this regards, but if a person was actually going to sweats and what not, I am not sure if the term paper Indian would be applicable since they are participating in native ways to some degree.

 Perhaps prior to incarceration they were only "indian on paper," but how many times do we see Christians, Muslims etc turning to God while in prison, or even going through tough times in their life.

 Furthermore in my life I have known NON NDN's who have participated in sweats in a good way, and two actually did get started in the prison system. I don't see an issue with that, especially if the medicine from  sweats improved their lives and turned them around.

 I am not trying to be rude or confrontational with you, so please do not take it that way. I just see you making the statements you have made and even one where you said you were "offering guidance" on the topic. If you do not sweat, and really don't know anything about them other then that which is superficial, then I do not see how you can give guidance when it is filled with criticism of things you don't seem to understand yourself.