Ignorant woman performs striptease on sacred Australian aboriginal land

[nemesis]

Wayne

I have read all you posts here

I do not believe that you are being malicious or that you intend to offend people, yet your posts are, for the most part, offensive.  Not because they display hatred or malice, but because they clearly demonstrate your inherent sense of your own goodness and correctness at the same time that your words  show that you have a lot to learn about the very things you claim to know so much about.

You do not yet seem to possess the humility necessary to listen to others or to bother to read about the views, values and opinions of native people before posting here.

If you had bothered to read instead or write and listen instead of talk, and you had actually thought about the issues, then you would not have written what you did.

Just for example

You say this

Imagine.... i would have the money to go to down-under.
There's this tourguide who is selling the Uluru-tour.
I would ask him if there is a native guide, if so i would want to talk to him and ask him about the holiness of the place.
I would bet that he would say he'd rather have no whities around uluru, then i would not go.
Stating, that i respect the customs out loud, so i would make other tourists uneasy to go.

While, from what you say, your heart seems to be in the right place (a very important thing), if you had spent even a little while reading the boards here you would know that asking tour guides about whether or not there is a native guide present would probably count for nothing because it is very common for tour guides to employ actors to play the roles of native guides.

You could easily end up being "given permission" to walk on sacred ground / sell ceremony / some other thing by someone pretending to be native.  It happens all the time, as you would know if you were familiar with the issues.

I understand that it must feel difficult for you to take these criticisms on board, and I am not saying what I am saying just to attack you.

When you come to a forum like this one, that is owned by native people, you could think of it as though you are a guest in someone else's house.

You need to be very considerate and respectful in how you behave.

You should ask yourself whether entering the house and making all kinds of proclamations about your own perceived expertise is the right thing to do, or perhaps whether it is better to be humble and to listen, to learn and try to be helpful.

If you have a powerful wish to try to connect with native people, maybe in some way to give something back or make amends for the many years of genocide and colonialism, perhaps it might be better to humbly try to learn what kind of gifts and gestures might be appreciated rather than to offer your opinions as though they were gifts of great value.

There is an excellent thread here that might be a good place for you to start to learn

http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=2365.0

[Wayne]

Read the mentioned post........... still learning 
Thanks.

Many blessings,

Wayne

[critter - a white non-ndn person]

not only that nemesis.. but also as though the aboriginal is part of a souvenir shop or something. i mean, when i read: I would ask him if there is a native guide, if so i would want to talk to him and ask him about the holiness of the place.

i felt like there's a souvenir shop near by and tourist wants to go get a trinket.  that's how offensive it is i found his words here to be.

[nemesis]

not only that nemesis.. but also as though the aboriginal is part of a souvenir shop or something. i mean, when i read: I would ask him if there is a native guide, if so i would want to talk to him and ask him about the holiness of the place.

i felt like there's a souvenir shop near by and tourist wants to go get a trinket.  that's how offensive it is i found his words here to be.

I hear you critter and I know exactly what you mean.

I was referring to this in a earlier post when I said that Wayne seems to imagine that native people exist only as actors in the theatre of his imagination or aspirations, or something.

I think that, for many white people (possibly for all people) it is extremely easy to project our own fantasies onto others and to see them as symbols of our own desires rather than as people with rights and their own lives to lead.

Let's face it this tendency is central to racism, colonialism and probably lots of other isms too.  It is probably part of the human condition, but something that manifests itself most obviously around issues of racism and white privilege.

I say this as a white person who does not consider myself immune to this tendency, just as someone who is on guard for it in myself.

Having said that, at least Wayne has read the thread I suggested and hopefully he will learn to listen more and talk less.

I was extremely stupid and insensitive when I was young and I still have my moments now and I think that the best that any of us can do it to try to examine our prejudices and privileges and try to know ourselves and not to harm others.

[critter - a white non-ndn person]

i agree nemesis.. i'm on guard as well for the nuances of 'white privilege' in my own
actions and thoughts.. along with other oddities of being human that causes distress.

live and learn..

[Defend the Sacred]

I thank all of you who've responded to Mosher for your wise comments here. Nemesis, you hit the nail on the head regarding Wayne Mosher's objectification of people of color. We saw this type of racism again in the other thread regarding the photograph of the Indigenous man on Mosher's social networking page. I feel it was also kneejerk racism (and a sign he hadn't read much of anything here) for him to accuse us of just hating white people. Yup, just hatin' on whitey... No whites allowed here. < / sarcasm >

[Freija]

Wayne - I´m European, just like you.
I can understand the wish to go to sacred places, whatever cultures they belong to, because those places are beautiful.
And some of them are open to anyone, some of them are closed - not always with a fence....
To avoid tourguide-actors and "pay-me-and-you-can-go-there!" people, there is a better way....

Work in and with Native communities.
Raise money, help elders and children.
Spread information among non-Natives about the wrongdoings, the exploitation, the abuse
Get involved in Native American/Australian political issues where you can make a difference
And then, after ten years or so, maybe - maybeeeee - a genuine, traditional Native person one day will say: "I´ll show you a special place" and take you there.

It will not be "payment for your work"
And it is nothing you ever can expect - because if your pretend to give help in order to achieve something else, the traditionalists will see through you faster than lightening! Believe me...!

So it pretty much goes back to what everyone in here have already said, make a change in your heart and mind, talk less, listen to genuine traditionalist and act in silence. And then after some years you will probably find that wishing to gain information about sacred ceremonies and visiting sites seem far less important. And then you´ll know you´re on the right track.

[apukjij]

http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=1161.0

IMO i think thats why the Elders in kkkanada reacted so vehemently to their first exposure to the false medicine wheel teachings, they saw it as racist, this view of the 4 colours of man, endgenders discrimination in its adherents, it compartmentalizes the many many colours of humankind, as well as perverts true L'nu awareness.
the fact is this medicine wheel is a false ideology, invented by the whites, imposed on our People as another tool of colonialization, and unfort worked. Recently I had my well-being threatened for blogging in Mi'kmaw country on the dangers of the medicine wheel, thats wat andrea was alluding to:
..."The sad irony is that anyone who now voices objections to the medicine wheel as tradition is generally condemned for "messing" with tradition."...
i saw my fellow L'nu come back from conferences and start giving medicine wheel workshops (for a fee), i saw a group of L'nu Traditionalists, create a secret Medicine Wheel Group, devoted to studying these teachings, which lead to a clique forming, which was very narrow minded in its acceptance of others.

the medicine wheel trains its adherents to fracture the Spirituality and Ideology of many of the Aboriginal People in the western hemisphere, imposing a sinister sense of entitlement leaving its adherents convinced they have a right to do this.

which leaves people like wayne, thinking they are entitled to hold Sweats, for what they call purification, and personal well-being. and most tragically their idea of what a Sweat is the most vile form of corruption.
i cannot speak about the other Nations, but i am humbled to share that i have been invited to Lakota, Cree, Wampanoag, Maliseet and Mi'kmaq Sweats. But i have never heard one Sweat Lodge Conductor mention purification and personal well-being. the simple fact that these non-natives cannot assimilate is that we Suffer for the Good Of The People! we do not Sweat for ourselves, in fact there is an unspoken inhibition to even not Pray for yourself in the Lodge, we Pray for our Families, the People, the Communities, our Leaders, the other Nations, to our Ancestors, for the well-being of the creatures that inhabit the forest and waterways and the Medicines, i cant remember the last time i heard someone pray for themself a regular  Lodge. if there are issues in your life, and you need help the protocol is to approach the Conductor and ask for a Lodge to be done in your honour to help following certain protocols, then we get together and pray with and for that person.
For the Mi'kmaq People, the Lodge was given to us by our messiah Kluskap. He constructed the first Lodge, to Honour His Grandmother, Nukimijinen, (you can find the Mi'kmaq Creation Story all over the Net, its one of the few times a member of the Mi'kmaq Grand Council shared their ancient knowledge on the internet). this awareness has nothing to do with wayne and his followers. i hope he cancels his sweat, and any charges he incurs is a small price to pay for the pearl of awareness his journey in our Forum has given him.