Wm Fredrick Posey AKA Turtle Heart - "Ojibwe Indian Priest" living in Italy

[Epiphany]

Turtle Heart = William Fredrick Posey

His father Paul W Posey born Indiana is white in census 1920, 1930, 1940 - military records - death.

Paul W. Posey's father is William Louis Posey, born Indiana 1891, white in all census and military. Both William Louis Posey's  parents from Indiana.

If Turtle Heart/Fred Posey's father and grandfather were truly enrolled, we would have found records like this:

William Posey

Date of Birth: abt 1888
Age:1
Gender:Male
Relation to Head of Household: Son
Tribe: Ojibwe (Ojibbeway)
Agency: La Pointe
State:Wisconsin
Census Date: 7 Sep 1889

But his people are not Ojibwe from Wisconsin, they are white from Indiana.

[educatedindian]

I asked Posey to give his side. He sent a series of angry emails in less than a day, the usual excuses, defenses, claims of persecution, and even implied threats (I have a lawyer, I know who you are etc) we've all seen before. I'll post all of his emails whole, and then my responses in another post.

-------

trash tossed around by strangers is inevitable.
My long life speaks for itself from people who actually know me personally. I have no idea and no interest at all in who you are or your agenda. Bitter and angry people feed their bitterness and anger just so. Pay attention. My life is measured in reality not the projection of strangers looking for someone to trash.

Best Regards

------

Dear Dwellers In the Trash,


I wrote a document Blood Quantum, Tribal Enrollment and Platic Indians which is my studied response to an organization like yours.

I would be happy to send you a copy for free.

here…click this link to download it….

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/350526/Blood%20Quantum%2C%20Enrollment%2C%20Imaginary%20Indians%20and%20Plastic%20Shamans%20-%20a%20knol%20by%20Turtle%20Heart.pdf

Your group exists by accusation and inferences that rarely, as far as I can tell, involve any direct knowledge or experience with the subjects of your slander. Sometimes you seem to get it right, many times you seem to get it wrong.

While I share your concerns about ethics, I have no interest and no need to defend my long life to an organization as lacking in credibility. I have written widely acorss many platforms about the errors and frauds pepetuated by new age groups, including yours.

Publishing accusations randomly submitted by strangers is what sort of activity?

I know very well who the bitter and lost person who is making statements to you about me. My life is in the hands and history of my long work around this mother earth. My conscious and my actual history are clear and sweet.

You are self appointed people. You have no authority, no voice, and no credibility in the real world, certainly none whatsoever with American Indian communities.

You have the freedom to publish whatever you like. It is not up to me to encourage or deny you the privelage to publish slander sent to you by strangers. You make your own choices every day.

My choice is not to participate in your exercise. I have no fear of the truth, absolutely, and none whatsoever of your group, whose work is far more hyped in your own minds than in the real world. Make things up about me and publish them as you may choose.

Turtle Heart
Ojibwe Artist
aka William Fredric Posey
aka Keeper of the Four Directions Unity Bundle
aka Keeper of the Sacred Pipes of the Eastern Gate

------

Best regards, my final though on your blunt and mannerless email:

I do not mind saying, for the public record, I have had no contact with my birth or marriage family for more than 35 years. I was
married and had a child, we divorced, she married another man, in common law or legally I am not sure and I never heard from my so-called family ever in all those years, more than 35.

One could write poetry, pen operas and make movies about all the could have been, should have been, might have been with families.

During the time I was with my family, my ex-wife passed away some years ago, I treated them very well and worked hard. After the divorce we all lost touch, until now. I have a clear conscious.

Occasionally I get messages of rage from someone in my old family. I am not the fist or last person to loose all contact with a dysfunctional family.

My belief is that you are being "rope.a-doped" by an angry family member of my ex-wife, not my family, who has recently emerged full of rage and crazy thoughts and acusations that I was never in the army, that I am some sort of criminal, threatening to tell the whole world. I think this woman is a child of my late ex-wife's previous marriage. I have not seen that person since they were 6 or 7 years old.

I would hope you would consider validating your information and not publishing things that are just made up from angry people without names.

Don't you ever get suspicious about people who "turn other people in"?

In some ways, i expect you think you are doing something good. From here you look like bullies. You have no mandate to question my
life, or any person's life. In another way, I am not afraid of or ashamed of my life. I have lived my adult life in service to tribal elders
who know me, teach me, guide me and who saved me from the life of bitterness and paranoia demonstrated in these accusations. It is stressful being accosted by strangers on the internet…and to what purose?

I have no criminal record, I have certified copies of my military service. I have worked for and with tribal communities all across the United States.

The only legal authority to question any aspect of my life resides with tribal elders. (Aside from the justice department if a person violtes the law. I have not.)

No other person or agency has any authorty or privilege in this regards. I have and remain on good terms with a circle of American Indian elders who know and approve my work, every day. I do not make a profit from my work, usually I have to pay the costs, or most of them. I am an artist and a student of the tribal elders of the American earth. My ancestors were catabwa (edisto), ojibwe and celtic. I
did the research and found that out and went in their direction and found those teachers. I do not hide my mixed-racial ancestry from anyone. Many people have Indians or other nationalities in their families and never do anything about it. I did something about it after my marrage went away decades ago. I found those old Indians that once were my ancestors and rebuilt my connection to, my love
for, and my life-long commitment to them. I celebrate that fact every day and in long memories of ceremonies, corrections, purifications, face to face with my tribal elders and tecahers….face to face and breath to breath, eyes wide open.


I presently live in Italy. In Italy personal privacy is a very serious matter. Publishing false information about a resident or citizen of Italy (I am married to an Italian woman) is a serious crime, punishable by prison time.

In the USA you have some liscense to publish and write about people, but theire are limits to both reason and law. I hope you will not
just make things up. Freedom of Speech does not mean free from liability, even in the USA.

Pay attention. This is my final word for your mannerless email to me. Don't make things up. I know who you are. I share with you what I hope is a mutual respect for the truth.

Becoming an agent for a hysterical and angry relative with a 40 year old personal grudge and bitterness might not be the most sound basis on which to develop an accusation agenda. Respectfully,

Turtle Heart, Ojibwe Artist
ccs:legal (S.Orlando, Palermo)
ccs:Silvia Santi

-----
Evidence? Evidence is as evidence does. You are strangers who spend your time with your imaginations and little else. i was generous
to tell you anything at all. Clearly you are just going to make things up and spin them to your agenda, so have at it.

I don't care. You are strangers, litle more than a self-sustaining hate group, and clearly no patience, credibility or power to discover very much about who anyone is. However your white racist foundations are clear enough.

Telling? Let me tell you, nothing else.

Everone gets on your bullshit forum sooner or later I guess it is my turn.

So post that. barking dogs and ghosts in your own lives, have at it.-

[educatedindian]

My emails to him. The link referred to is in the previous post,, his long ramble about blood quantum and defense of plastic shame ons.

--------
Hello,

I received an account about you that I'd like to hear your side of. It was just posted on nafps.

I did not post the allegations of criminal activity, and won't until and unless I receive definitive proof. The claim was of a long history of...deception about your ancestry, and no contact with family because of scamming them for decades.

-------

All the evidence we have found shows that your family is entirely of European ancestry. There is no evidence of you having any contact with elders except your word, or having any credibility amongst actual Native communities. There is also no evidence of military service or any art of yours at the Smithsonian.

It is also quite telling that your link defends some notorious frauds as authentic, that you describe with pride disrupting a meeting of actual Natives with a New Age imitation of Buddhist ceremony, and that you mistakenly imagine this is about blood quantum or enrollment. Neither of the last two matter to as as we have many members who are unenrolled or mixed. The silly accusation from  you is the stock argument of New Age exploiters who have never experienced true prejudice.

I will post your responses, but you remain welcome to respond yourself at the forum.

------
If we were truly as vicious as you fantasize, why didn't we post the accusations of your [deleted]?

Unlike you, we take care  with our words and back up what we say with proof.

It is amusing to see your pseudo spiritual front completely fall away.

We have your genealogy posted and it shows every last ancestor as white, that you made up claims of where you lived, who you met, and what you've done.

Bluster won't change that, and neither will cursing like a 12 year old who mistakenly think that makes him sound tough.

I'll post your last response as well, and any future ones.

[Epiphany]

I found those old Indians that once were my ancestors and rebuilt my connection to

This is a quote from Posey's email above. He writes of "old Indians" really often. It's his catch phrase. I'd noticed it before and wondered why he seems to be speaking of living cultures most often as "old Indians". Nothing wrong with old, and he often now writes of feeling his own age, but the way he writes "old Indians" seems like someone who learns mostly from books written by outsiders. Below is just a sample from his writings online:

The old Indians always told me that, my friend, whatever you need is not far away. Many of the old Indians and their children are on the move these days.

To the old American Indians, an equinox or solstice is considered a gateway, an opening.

He even seems to trust them….more than he trusts the old Indians

These ancient ceremonies are called “Correction Ceremonies” by the old Indians.

It is my life…to keep my promises to the old Indians.

No matter what the old Indians have to say on the matter,

Omissions of correct behavior about what the sweat lodge is and to whom it belongs is of great concern to the old Indians.

These old Indians I knew, if you spent time with them, these kind of questions never came up

He's now also positioned himself to be the "old Indian" where he lives.

[Epiphany]

More of his claims:

8.First reburial ceremony of American Indian remains in the world. The first official tribal reburial ceremony, of bones repatriated by a museum under the NAGPRA, to the Five Tribes of Connecticut was conducted by Turtle Heart. The ceremony took place on land donated by the state and included representatives of all Five Tribes, as well as the tribes of Massachusetts in the re-naming and reburial of five Tunxis American Indians.

9.First formally established prison program for American Indian inmates in prisons. This was negotiated with and agreed upon by the state of Connecticut. That program is still going with two full time and one part time employee. Turtle Heart established the items, procedures and program required for inter tribal religious worship in Federal and State prisons. All existing programs in fifty states still follow this model.

He also says he's been giving out names:

6.Tribal name ceremonies to tribal children. In Connecticut, Massachusetts, New Mexico and Washington State.

http://www.aicap.org/accomplish.html

[loudcrow]

From sacredpipe.org website:

"The Long River Sacred Pipe was created by a Lakota family, a multi-generational family of pipe makers. It was blessed by tribal councils of many tribes of American Indians. It was formally blessed and recognized as a gift for the Five Tribes. It went in a circle around Turtle Island being blessed and cleansed by a large circle of tribal elders from many tribes. It was carried around this circle by an Ojibwe man who at that time was an artist, a keeper of ceremonies, a maker of ceremonial objects. It was and is very rare for so many ceremonial people to share in the creation and hope for one ceremonial pipe, one sacred tribal object."

I know NAFPS has members who can ask around about this pipe that was given to the Five Tribes by Mr. Poser. I'd be interested to hear if there's any truth to this
although I highly doubt it.

[Superdog]

This is the story of his pipe written in his own words.  Basically, he's more a romanticist of where he really is.  The story he tells is interesting, but I'd like to point a few things out.  It only talks about "ceremonies" involving the state recognized tribes in CT.  Nowhere else.  He calls himself a sacred pipe carrier of the Eastern gate, which is odd....there's more tribes in the east than in CT.  So...that's a bit of fluff.  I only recognize Slow Turtle out of the names he mentions, who was Wampanoag (if this is the same person we're both talking about.)  So...he fluffs himself and the story up quite a bit, but what it boils down to is a few individuals including Posey and some members of the state recognized CT tribes.  Not much else.  Claiming to be a priest is a bit much.  I do like some of your art though. 

http://www.aicap.org/sacredpipe/narrative1.html

Superdog

[Smart Mule]

The Sherman mentioned was Sherman Paul.  He crossed in 2011 and was from Tobique (Maliseet reserve in NB).  Mikki Aganstata was Sherman's wife, I'm not sure of her tribal affiliation.  She was the head of Commission on Indian Affairs in CT.  She lives in Florida now.  Big Eagle was Aurelius H. Piper of the Golden Hill Paugussett, he crossed in 2008.

ETA - I am assuming that when he refers to the five tribes, Mr. Posey is talking about the Wabanaki Confederacy.  I'm wondering why anyone aside from Sherm was involved with his pipe thingie.  I'm thinking that my Wabanaki friends will be displeased to know the confederacy is being associated with  Mr. Posey and that in Mr. Posey's mind he had to bring ceremony back to them...ummm...yeah.  It's also a little strange that he didn't know Sherm's last name but called him Sherman Maliseet instead.  If he was as close to Mr. Paul as he insinuates he would have called him Sherm

[Superdog]

I am assuming that when he refers to the five tribes, Mr. Posey is talking about the Wabanaki Confederacy. 

I'd disagree.  Before the Mashantuckets and Mohegans gained federal recognition they were organized as wards of the state of CT along with the Golden Hill Paugussetts, Eastern Pequot, Pawcatuck, Schgaticokes etc were organized under an agreement with the state.  A commission on Indian affairs for the state of CT (for some reason the name eludes me).   After the Mashantuckets and Mohegans gained federal recognition they walked away from this commission leaving it without a quorum.  The commission still exists, but is unable to function in the govt to govt relationship it was meant to be without those tribes sending reps (which they still could, but for some reason haven't).  I don't see any relationship to the Wabanaki confederacy other than some individuals who were from those tribes. 

However...something that might of interest.  There's some good research coming out of the Mashantucket museum that shows how the need to work and live (as their land granted by treaties was summarily reduced to less than a quarter of their original territories) moved many tribes in CT/RI/MA to have mixed Native neighborhoods in the coastal towns (whaling was a big industry back in the day in this area and many Natives worked in it, even owning their own ships and crews).  These neighborhoods nearly always coincided with poorer sides of towns and were mixed with Italian and African-American neighborhoods (where for a few centuries some natural mixing happened).  From the colonial period through statehood, colonial/state authorities maintained control of identity of what was a Native.  The colonials/state governments also engaged in a yearly counting of Native people on their reservations.  People who mixed with other tribes were recorded as "colored" and "mulatto" rather than "Indian" in an effort to destroy their identities.  It's also through the 1700's and into the 1800's that several people were written about in publications as "The Last of (whatever tribe they were writing about) leading the non-Indians to believe these people didn't exist anymore.  Eventually they did organize a relationship with the state which is the council that exists today. 

So for me, he's referring to CT or New England tribes and the fact that he ended up in Italy....is not a surprise as a lot of Italians in communities (throughout different pockets of the US even) self-identified as Native sometimes (i.e. Iron Eyes Cody (Sicilian born parents) and Chief Jay Strongbow (Italian born parents)).

So, I don't think Posey is necessarily lying....he's romanticizing his life story to make it more interesting.  Wabanaki tribes have no "sacred pipe" tradition.  Everyone had pipes...sharing tobacco (especially high quality tobacco) was as much social as it was spiritual and sharing a pipe was similar to sharing a meal in most instances.  There is no recognized "Sacred Pipe of the Eastern Gate"....that sounds to me like it's more of a Lakota tradition that's was applied in a foreign land (CT), which did happen quite a bit around this time of his story.

(adding something else)...the title of Posey's account in the link I posted is named:  "The story of the arrival of a Sacred Pipe,
blessed by many American Indian elders and ceremonies,
to the Five Tribes of Connecticut (short version)"

Superdog

[Smart Mule]

My misunderstanding came from "That the Five Tribes are presently the eastern-most located of the American Indians in the USA.", which would be the Confederacy 

[Superdog]

I can see that.  Around the 70's to the 90's a lot of southern New England tribes referred to themselves and traditions as "Eastern" without regard to tribes that were actually further East or the East coast tribes to the south of them.  Posey seems to be a product of that time period.

Superdog

[educatedindian]

....So for me, he's referring to CT or New England tribes and the fact that he ended up in Italy....is not a surprise as a lot of Italians in communities (throughout different pockets of the US even) self-identified as Native sometimes (i.e. Iron Eyes Cody (Sicilian born parents) and Chief Jay Strongbow (Italian born parents)).

So, I don't think Posey is necessarily lying....he's romanticizing his life story to make it more interesting.  Wabanaki tribes have no "sacred pipe" tradition.  Everyone had pipes...sharing tobacco (especially high quality tobacco) was as much social as it was spiritual and sharing a pipe was similar to sharing a meal in most instances.  There is no recognized "Sacred Pipe of the Eastern Gate"....that sounds to me like it's more of a Lakota tradition that's was applied in a foreign land (CT), which did happen quite a bit around this time of his story.

(adding something else)...the title of Posey's account in the link I posted is named:  "The story of the arrival of a Sacred Pipe,
blessed by many American Indian elders and ceremonies,
to the Five Tribes of Connecticut (short version)"

Superdog

Posey's site is the only place I see online that refer to "5 Tribes of CT" as though they were a group comparable to Iroquois Confderacy. Like you point out, it's just a very brief political association, not even around anymore. And these tribes were highly intermarried and often had to hide for centuries. I saw a woman set up as a "Pequot astrologer" at a powwow in Rhode Island.

Posey doesn't claim to be from one of the CT tribes though, nor Italian. He claims he's Ojibwe (later adding in also Catawba) who was handed a Lakota pipe by unnamed elders who somehow wound up doing Lakota-style pipe ceremonies for CT tribes with mostly unnamed elders...and then was told by them to go to Italy and run a bed and breafast spiritual tourism business while doing ceremony and public appearances in regalia.

Even his claims about who he is keep changing. Doesn't seem to have taken the name Turtle Heart until about 10 years ago, before that using Posey.  Sometimes claiming he had contact with family, but then in his angry emails admitted he hadn't seen any family for 35 years. Sometimes saying his father was Ojibwe, but then also claiming his grandfather was a spiritual leader.

All of these, even if his own words are true and every last written document showing all family were whites from Indiana are somehow false...it adds up to very tenous connections at best. How believable is it for a spirchul guy to have no contact for that long and then set yourself up as a priest in Italy?

The one thing I do believe that he said was that he likely doesn't make much money from any of this. The art does show he's immersed himself in some aspects of the culture, though there are obvious Nuage tendencies like doing a Nuage knockoff of a Buddhist ceremony. I agree with you that in some ways he's more like "Iron Eyes Cody" playing a role he starts to believe himself.

[Epiphany]

Turtle Heart Born 03 February 1949

http://www.aicap.org/turtle-heart/?page_id=2

William F. Posey and his family in 1956 traveled to England together, his father was in the military.

Attached here are clips from the records. Same exact birthdate. This is the same family we've been researching  all along.

(Source Information: Ancestry.com. UK Incoming Passenger Lists, 1878-1960 [database on-line]. Provo, UT, USA: Ancestry.com Operations Inc, 2008.)

[loudcrow]

According to the information at sacredpipe.org, he used to go by the name "Winterstone".

[Epiphany]

Loudcrow, Posey says in this book on page 182 that his first comp was an IBM 8086, around 1981. He says he was visiting Manhattan and then stayed for 4 years.

http://books.google.com/books?id=Q7dgWYaDHTUC&lpg=PP1&pg=PA182#v=onepage&q&f=false