Hey from Saga :)

[Saga]

I have to say that I had never thought about it much... this "plastic shaman" thing, since for me what the people are saying is more important than their backgrounds... After reading around in here, it did dawn on me tho. It is really unethical to support a message or cause with false claims to get more money out of it just because it happens to be a "trend" to "be" a shaman or claim to be one.

I admire indigenous cultures, so I am one of those who easily fall in messages from all kinds of indigenous people. But I actually want to know more of authentic culture, not the new age-ish stuff, that I can research in other places, if I wish... It seems to be harder and harder to find the real information behind all these frauds and I am sad about that. So in a way, I have a little conflict view to this site, since it mostly proves that almost all I have found this far is fraud and gives not much info about the authentic culture, but I am thankful anyway. Actually this site encourages me to research even more the old spiritual/religional practises of my own people, since those are probably better to me than other cultures' practises and they actually have something same with native americans too, even in rock paintings/carvings have some similar motifs...

Anyway, babbling there. Have had my share of people who seems to be sincere and appear not to be that, even if their "message" or the very core of it is still nice... I still think that people should use their own damn backgrounds, if they start any kind of spiritual counseling and am not big fan of people hoarding money with bad advice to vulnerable people...

So thanks for keeping this up. It is always nice when the truth is out there, whether it is "fraud" or true person. I might comment in some things, or might not, wanted to have the opportunity tho.

[earthw7]

Hi Sage I don't who you are from your introduction but I am Native Lakota and Dakota
the only way to know us is to come and visit us. The internet has a world of frauds.
I would ask why do you want to know us?
We do not trust anymore because so many claim to be friends and only came to steal a part of our culture.
We always want to open our arms to visitors

[Peasant]

It appears that Saga has deleted his account, but perhaps he will still read these messages.

Welcome to the forums I think i know as little about these cultures as you, but i'll try my best.

One thing you could do, is to look for a well-established foundation in the country where you live, which supports the cultural survival of the indigenous peoples you are interested in. Just to give you an example, one of these kind of foundations in other countries can be found at http://www.lakota.nl/english.html
They organize a trip to the Lakota nation every summer.

You could also go to a museum for art made by indigenous peoples.
Just another example: http://www.aamu.nl/home_us

I'm sure you will find something, but like earthw7 said, you won't find much - if any - credible information on the internet. Go to a foundation or a museum, or perhaps you could ask a history teacher to give you any directions or advice on how to look for information.

Hope this helps a little bit

Edit: one other link i've found which seems interesting:
http://www.native-languages.org/religion.htm

[Saga]

I got a little impulse and deleted my account in the rush... back now tho and the same saga still, so will post here. Wanted to answer the thread. I am btw female and live in Finland, to answer bit in earthw7's question... so not indigenous, other than in my own culture, if you can count the strong roots in the land and family around the area for ages to be indigenous for the culture. In other words, I am as white as it gets still. :p

And yes, I have noticed that most of the information in internet is indeed not too valid... And I actually have visited museums and read tons and tons of books about indigenous cultures, just too many of those are more or less written by white people... so been browsing your forum to find some more valid sources about the history, culture and the spirituality too. And to ask the other question, I am just over all interested about cultures and the people in them, NOT to exploit them in any way, but to understand them better. I have to say that I am ashamed that I have been so interested in cultures that I haven't always even questioned the sources where the info comes. :/ It also makes me angry, since I want to understand the REAL culture, not necessary to know about the personal spiritual practises of people, but to learn something about the origins and the thoughts behind them. I think spirituality is personal anyway, I don't go telling around exactly how I "worship" my gods either... And yes, after reading the forums more, I do understand why there is no big trust towards people who start asking questions, so wont start asking any. I found couple of links around here to books written by native people and stuff, so will check if I can get any around here to read... It sucks that the information is so twisted everywhere... bit same when looking the roots of my own culture, all the christianity and romantic as well as down grading the original beliefs and culture has wiped so much of it off that it is hard to find the real thing behind it.

Which reminds me, is this site made up stories or real ones else http://www.ilhawaii.net/~stony/loreindx.html ? If someone has any info? There's also the rainbow warrior prophecy that is widely used in backing up lots of stuff in new age area... http://www.ilhawaii.net/~stony/lore133.html
I am pretty interested in lore too, but have no idea what is real and what is not anymore... I have a book too.. American indian stories, by Zitkala-Sa (or Getrude Bonnin), who is supposed to be Yankton Sioux, well was 1876-1938... She is authentic isn't she? Or one of the first wannabes? Native rights activist and writer says the book's back cover...

[earthw7]

Zitkala-Sa-Red Bird is a real native and her stories are true today there are a few native writers out there

[Saga]

Then I am atleast some what on the right track.

[critter - a white non-ndn person]

Welcome back Saga.

[Defend the Sacred]

I've split the discussion on Rock Formations and Rock Carvings into its own thread in Etcetera.

http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=2968.0

[Saga]

Got inspired to read my first introduction in the forums while reading the new ones... OMG. :p I am a snob, am I?

Anyway, I want to thank everyone in these forums. I've started to see way bigger picture in what you represent and are trying to protect and preserve here, as well as bigger picture in so many other things. And with starting to understand that, I've started to find more lasting values to base my life on. Has been partially painful and humbling drive, all things considering, but well worth it.

Thank you. And I apologize for my former shortcomings. (I am sure there will be plenty more though, lol.)

Anyway as a proper introduction:
I am a female, in my 30s, live in Finland. Have been connected to nature and animals very strongly all my life, always seeking out peaceful spots in the nature to calm myself when upset and to find interesting things when curious... I am more or less a "pagan" and the earth and the sky is enough of a god/goddess/over all sacredness to me at this moment. I want to take care of it and to protect it and have wanted that from very little (always told my mom not to step on ants, lol and was part of environmental groups before I hit 15...).
Right now, after lots of "soul-searching", I've actually hit the point, where I find most insight in things within and it seems to work best for me to keep away from the "information flow" that is so common in new age... i prefer earthy texts or read geology and stuff, since earth fascinates me. And focus on creativity a bit more as well. Life can be beautiful...

Still reading/watching everything I find from real indigenous people about their cultures, but doing lots more background checks than I used to...