MOWA Band of Choctaw Indians

[tuschkahouma]

the previous post was written in June 2005. I remember watching c-span and seeing a completely different John McCain clobbering Abramov
associates over this very subject. I thought it was strange that the MS Choctaws were in bed politically with the GOP. They had worked
with US Senator Trent Lott for some time especially in the 1990's when land was put in trust in Jackson County, MS with Mr Lott's
approval. If a larger tribe didn't like another tribe and they had influence, they could make life hard for their tribal adversaries which they did.
I was in MS at that time in 2005. My relatives lost homes in Katrina. Food for thought backing up what I previously stated.

[bbreed]

tuschkahouma

I am a member of the Mowa Choctaw and I wanted to let you know that I really appreciate your "defense". I have read each post on this forum and I am awestruck by the attempt on here by people to tell me what my ancestry is. I think I may start telling them were they came from since I know just as much about them as they do me.

We clearly sent the requested information to the BIA and our leader retrieved un opened boxes of information from Washington.They did not even bother to read it. Another issue i have with the statements on here is when did the BIA become so infallable? Wasnt this the department that did the rotten meat and indian agents that destroyed so many tribes? Never did I think that I would hear Natives (if they truly are) praise this agency so much.
I just loved how the people on here praise Phillip Martin. He did well for his people that cannot be denied but "hero" he will never be. He is a modern day Apushmataha. He fought his own people.So what if he served in the military? So did my father and he took a bullet for a nation that refuses to see him for what he was. A Native American. If Phillip Martin  was half the man that Cedric Sunray was then the world would have been a better place. 

A fact that cant be denied is - We have lived for hundreds of years on lands that are historically Choctaw/Creek and no matter how many times people have tried to debunk our claims, no one has been able to come up with a suitable alternative to our origins. When reading newspaper articles or any reference book concerning our people from the late 19th to early 20th century it was determined that we came from the "coons and foxes" or "we just sprung up out of the ground". Both of these explanations are ridiculous as you can tell. So since every one on here know s so much about us, I would love for them to tell me how my people just sprang up out of the ground?
No matter if we ever get federal recongnition or not we are going to continue to be a strong people.We do not need the Govenments permission to be Native.

[tuschkahouma]

yokoke, bbreed

[earthw7]

Still no evidence just heresay so far.
I was wondering how far back to you have to go to have full blood
Native member in your band?

[bbreed]

what type of proof would you like? We have oral history, government documents referring to us a "indians" and letters from other tribes asking for our support in helping them achieve federal recognition (poarch creek). We have been treated differently by all surrounding people. Do you want us to have a government official say it? I really dont know what you expect.
 I have read articles on the internet that questions people on this forum's bloodlines.

[tuschkahouma]

there are mowas that look fullblood right now. In my ancestry, five generations back, my great great grandmother was half Choctaw/half Biloxi.
She married a German man named Breland and from that I'm a 32nd Choctaw and a 32nd Biloxi. When a community is ostracized and
isolated they tend to marry amongst each other, so the quantum is there.

[educatedindian]

IOW,  since 95% or more of Mowas have no NDN ancestry, there are probably a few dozen out of over a thousand. T is 15/16 white and/or Black and 31/32 non-Choctaw by his own account. Obviously there was actually quite a bit of outmarriage among the Mowas. If a thousand people married only amongst themselves for 180+ years you'd see lots of birth defects quick, plus lower fertility rates.

Again, that outmarriage makes sense and fits right in with my earlier suggestion about the likely truth of the Mowas you keep ignoring. Culturally yall could be somewhat Choctaw even if by bloodline most of you aren't. There's a Black Seminole community in south Texas, over in Bracketville, that's in a somewhat similar situation. (Then again, Blackwolf did post evidence pointing out you had to go the MS Choctaws because most Mowa didn't know Choctaw ways, didn't speak the language, know the customs or dances etc.) But I suppose you'd rather rant about witch hunts. Here's a clue: Supposed victims of a witch hunt generally don't get a chance to speak their piece...

...And speak, and speak, and speak, as you have, even ignoring questions and going off on tangents.

[earthw7]

I was not talking about blood quantum but culture
The last full blood would be the one who had the full
culture intacked with languae, culture and spirituality.
That would be how far you are removed from the culture.
When the full blood marries outside the culture they bring in
half of what the culture is to the marriage then the next generation
and so on so after 5 generations what you have left only tiny bits of
a real culture left. Only stories told by others or wrote by others.
Which does not make a nation.
I can go to my parents who are full blood and my grandparents, grew up
with my culture around me.
So yes, i wonder what do you know of the bone pickers from choctaw culture?

[snorks]

Please excuse some flakiness, my server is fruitie today.

How do the Mowas differ from a cultural club?

Longevity in an area?  There are families in rural New England who are White, have been there for at least three hundred years.  They are not considered Native American.

BQ?  From the conversations presented, the BQ is very low.  If I believe my family stories, and I am White, I have more BQ.  But that doesn't make me a Native American.

Tribal recognition?  Who of the federal tribes recognise them?  Why the Mowa's dislike of the Poarch Branch Creeks?

What I have read about Rep. Frank Wolf (R-VA) etc.  makes no sense.  He is my Congress person, and I don't seem to recall his stance against Mowas.  He seems to be more interested in China and human rights.  Jack Abramoff (sp?) seemed to have cheated a lot of folks.  He took their money and did nothing.  How does he factor in all of this?

I don't understand how they can be a longstanding tribe if they are struggling to define themselves.  Are they Choctaw?  Creek?  Apache?  What I have read, they seem to have cast a wide net.

[bbreed]

I can certainly understand people being confused about people they know nothing about. I am not on here trying to convince people of what i am. It really doesnt matter what others view us as. I dont know where this silly claim that we hired people from the Mississippi Choctaw came from. I grew up in that area and when i asked others in the community if they ever remember something like this happening no one can remember this happening. The culture and community that i grew up in is the same one that my grandfather grew up in and his father and so on and so on. What people on here seem to be overlooking is that the Mississippi Choctaws saw things in our community that they recognised as Choctaw culture and they tried to explain why it was so. One good thing about it all is that Miko Denson stated when he was elected that his tribe would no longer fight us.There is always two sides to every story.  I really wished people would do more research than just trying to restate that BIA's opinion when they denied us.

The dislike of the Poarch Creek came from a letter from their leader before recognition-Eddie Tullis- sending a letter to our leader at the time asking for our support as a people on their application for federal recognition in the spirit of "indian brother hood" (what a joke). We whole heartedly supported them and then once they received federal recognition, they turned around and along with the Mississippi Choctaw fought us tooth and nail (money galore). Being that these two groups had more money and more lobbyist than we could afford, they contributed greatly in our being denied. We do not like the Poarch Creek people as individuals we just didnt like the dirty moves that their leaders did. I feel that it is justified. Maybe others feel differently.

I am confused about one thing though. Maybe some of you more learned people can answer though. Is everyone arguing that there are no choctaws in Alabama? Did they all except the Mississippi Choctaws just leave and go to Oklahoma?

[BlackWolf]

bbreed said

I am confused about one thing though. Maybe some of you more learned people can answer though. Is everyone arguing that there are no choctaws in Alabama? Did they all except the Mississippi Choctaws just leave and go to Oklahoma?

I think most people who have contributed to this thread wouldn’t deny that there are bona fide descendants in Alabama of Choctaws that stayed behind after the Treaty of Dancing Rabbit Creek.  Probably most of these descendants are just average people who don’t claim to be part of some bogus Tribe.  

But because this may be true, (that some Choctaws stayed behind), that does not necessarily mean  that the Mowa’s descend from these Choctaws.  In fact, other than that small percent who descend from Alexander Brashears, etc., all the evidence shows otherwise.  

Also, we are talking about these specific families such as the descendants of Daniel and Rose Reed, and the Weavers, etc. Also as Diana pointed out, virtually all of the Mowa’s ancestors who were supposedly Indians were actually immigrants from other places.  One of the core MBC families actually came in from Georgia.

[Diana]

Here's a prime example of how these fraudulent heritage clubs (I refuse to call them a Tribe) use their ill gotten state recognition for trying to take federal funds designated for real Tribes. I don't know at this point in time if this scam by the Mowa ever came to fruition, but the audacity in it's self is morally heinous.

http://www.southalabamian.com/news/2010-12-15/Front_Page/MOWA_tribe_wants_its_own_industrial_authority.html


MOWA tribe wants its own industrial authority 2010-12-15
By Ellen Williams
SA Reporter

Darren Snow and MOWA attorney, Bob Brock, met with the Washington County Commission on Monday, Dec. 13, to request a resolution by that body to establish an industrial authority. Snow explained that the tribe has property on the reservation designated as an industrial park. Bob Brock who represents the MOWA Band of Choctaws said that to set aside land for an industrial park, it is necessary to establish a nonprofit authority.

Judge Charles Singleton explained that Washington County already has an established industrial board whose purpose is to seek out industry and bring employment opportunities to Washington County. “Let me understand here,” Singleton stated,” there are just X amount of dollars above Highway 80. You say you will be seeking grant monies. Who will you be seeking money from?”

Brock said the MOWA entity will seek money from ADECA, Alabama Department of Economic and Community Affairs, among others. Brock insisted that the MOWAs need industrial authority within the Tribe and would not be in competition with Washington County.

“Then you will be (by applying to ADECA) in direct competition with the county,” Singleton said.

At this point in the discussion, Michael Onderdonk, county attorney came into the room. He questioned the authority for the MOWA Tribe to create an industrial park. “At what point, did the Washington County Commission pass a resolution for an industrial park?” he asked. “Under the Indian Park Act, when did the county commission establish an industrial park? I am not aware of any law that allows any entity to establish an industrial park except municipalities and county commissions.”

Brock insisted that Alabama Statute 92-A allows others to be established.

Again Onderdonk asked, “Has Washington County created an industrial park?” He continued and indicating the application said, “I see that you have listed Mobile, Choctaw, Monroe and Clarke counties. Won’t you have to get resolutions from the county commissions in all those counties as well?”

Brock said the MOWA Tribe is state-recognized and that all they were at the meeting to do was submit an application to create an industrial development authority. “We want to attract businesses and bring in jobs. When the MOWAs are employed they will spend money and pay taxes to Washington County.”


When Brock stated that the industrial authority would be seeking federal dollars, Onderdonk reminded them that MOWA Choctaws are not federally recognized. Snow shouted, “But we are state recognized. I didn’t know you had so much problem with our state-recognition, Mr. Onderdonk!” Snow stood and shouted.

“You need to preach in your own church, not in here,” Onderdonk replied. Whereupon Singleton called Snow down and restored order.

Onderdonk asked Brock and Snow if by creating employment opportunities for only one ethnic group, they were asking the commission to discriminate against one group of its citizens in favor of another.

Snow said, “We go to Olin and BASF and others and ask for qualifications and we send our boys to be trained and then they come back and apply and are told the qualifications have changed.”

Snow said that Bay Gas of McIntosh has 20 employees but not a single one is a minority. “Why don’t we get an equal share in this county in employment?”

The commission decided to study the matter before giving an answer. Snow asked for the commission’s decision in writing.

[Diana]

Found another article with the mowas receiving a large amount of money. The article is not necessarily about the mowas, but they are mentioned. I posted the part where they are receiving the money. My bold and here's the link. http://www.southalabamian.com/news/2009-07-09/news/020.html

"The presentation stated that Washington County is slated for $43,354.48 regular CSBG funds and $86,561.61 in projected stimulus funds. The MOWA band of Choctaws will receive $60,677. Their funding is counted separately because Indian nations are not included with the county as a whole."

Lim lemtsh,

Diana

[Darby Weaver]

Still no evidence just heresay so far.
I was wondering how far back to you have to go to have full blood
Native member in your band?

Well, I'm an enrolled member of the MOWA Choctaw and my family does date all the way back...

We've lived in our lands since before the Indian Removal Act. 

One of our cemeteries was established in 1800, the bodies were buried literally one, atop the other, until the cemetary was expanded an additional acreage was given to our people to help solve the problem.

We don't have to pretend to be who we are, we just are what we are.

Our community has been ostracized by both local towns on either end of us for most of my 44 years and long before that.

Segregation ended in 1965 for some but in 1985 we still had a race riot and the local paper said the Indians were scalping the white kids at school.  Not to make light of that incident. 

I've heard you say there was no proof of our heritage.

I'm going to post reference to some 30+ pages of proof that our people have access to for anyone's enjoyment.  Our tribal center has more.

The biggest evidence we have how we live and our local customs - that have persisted in our community since before the Indian Removal Act.

Some of our folks are Choctaw (the current Mississippi Choctaw Princess seems to bear an uncanny to at least one MOWA squaw that lives on the Red Fox Road and a couple of others too).

In fact, I went to their website and quite a few of the people they are showing off as Indians could pass for locals MOWA's by appearance.  Strange that no one thinks there might be some family between the two tribes.

It also seems strange to me that people forget that Mobile and Washington Counties were once a part of the Mississippi Territories.

People forget that the our people were the outcasts from other tribes - perhaps if you saw where my grandparents and great grandparents had to live you might better understand that they suffered some disadvantage due to their race and heritage.

Check this link out and take a look over 30 pages and 12 boxes of the MOWA historical documentation.

Remember our people were illiterate for most of this century to a large part.

Remember folks my dad's age had to walk some 5-6 miles to get to the Weaver Indian School on Patillo Road.

Remember not many of our folks ever made it to Citronelle High School to get past the 6th grade.

Remember our people had to claim white or black - most claim white and some to this day.  Even when their skin is purely a light to a very dark tone of terracotta.  Most now claim Indian since the MOWA was advertised.

Remember even today the MOWA still have some communication challenges getting tribal information to the entire tribe in the local communities.

People need written documentation...

We have that in the form of Dr. Monte L. Moorer - Look him up.  He made some consideration for the heirs of the Native Americans that have lived here - he tried to help us and in fact, it seems some of our tribe may have neglected this fact.

I'm involved now my own immediate family has grown from a pair of grandparents who had 7 children to a much larger 200+ descendents in this past century.  That's just 5 generations alone.  There are more not counting the parents of my own grandparents - they can probably claim even more descendents - maybe double or triple this number.

The primary families of Byrds and Weavers and a few other surnames have inter-married over the last 100-200 years or so at least and as such mostly all of them have a considerably high blood quantum.  I'd gather to say a few families are pretty close to pure blood.

Take a look at this evidence - it was not previously made public except as reference materials.

Darby Weaver

[Darby Weaver]

Another interesting thing about this group is that many of their members claim descent from other Tribes such as the Cherokee, Chickasaws, Creeks and Mescalero Apaches.  Not surprisingly however, the overwhelming majority of these claims could not be substantiated.

The MOWA Band of Choctaw Indians was duly incorporated in 1979 with its tribal office located in McIntosh and purchased their first 160 acres of land in south Washington County in 1983. They adopted the name “MOWA Choctaw Indians” to identify the Indians in Mobile and Washington Counties who are descended from several Indian Tribes: Choctaw, Creek, Cherokee, Mescalero, and Apache.

http://www.aaanativearts.com/choctaw-indians/index.html

You need to come out and visit our cemeteries - not many white or black people there due a very racist South Alabama.

The Weaver-Byrd families are largely Cherokee by blood.  They are also the majority of families in the Mobile County area.

The Byrd Cemetary

The Weaver School for Indians

Byrd Pit - A Road.

Other areas are largely populated with the Byrd/Weavers and the other Native American families they married with along the way.

Today they are still inter-marrying.

The blood is what it is.  They did inter-marry with each other across the generations and have stayed together as a community since before the Indian Removal Act of 1832.

We are still the rightful heirs of this land we live in and we are not going anywhere.

Darby Weaver



Did you think we needed your approval to be who we are?