The Keepers of The Sacred Tradition of Pipemakers

[Matt_Bowerman]

Ran accross this group on the internet.  Thought I would post it to see if they are 'on the level'.

Thanks,

Matthew

http://www.pipekeepers.org/beginning.htm

http://www.pipekeepers.org/



The Keepers of The Sacred Tradition of Pipemakers  1996

We are a 501C3 non profit Tribal spiritual organization with members all over the world and from many Tribal nations.

This organization was formed in 1996 to protect the Pipestone Quarries in Pipestone Minnesota for all Tribal People. At that time there were various groups around Indian country saying the Quarries should belong to them only and not all Tribal nations.

We are a 501C3 non profit Tribal spiritual organization with members all over the world and from many Tribal nations.  We are open and welcome all 4 colors to be part of our organization, this includes Asians (Yellow), Europeans (White), Africans (Black) and Indians (Red) .We believe in preserving the Sacred Tradition of the pipe and allowing free access to the Great Pipestone Quarries for all Native Americans as they have been for time immortal and support the art of pipemaking.  We also believe it is important to preserve each tribes unique culture, arts and stories for future generations.

With your help we can unite the four colors of man to help heal mother earth. We do many presentations and workshops in schools and with prison groups to share our tribal cultures, history, stories, arts, crafts and of course background of these Pipes and the Pipestone quarries in Pipestone MN.

The Great Pipestone Quarries of Minnesota have been a special place or sacred site for American Indian Tribal people for over 1,000 years. Many nations of people came to these quarries; including the Sac-Fox, Otto, Mandan, Kiowa, Hidatsa, Dakota, Lakota, Ojibwa as well as many other Native American tribes. The pipes made of this stone, called Catlinite by Europeans, withstood the heat well without cracking and was easily worked with flint tools. Therefore the Pipestone from the quarries here became a very precious trade item. Trade and travel dispersed pipestone throughout the Tribal Nations from Hudson Bay Canada to the Anazazi and Aztec of Mexico. The Pipestone region became the major crossroads for trade. This north south Trade route first used by our tribal people became the corridor the Europeans used and later major highways including highway 75.

[debbieredbear]

Yup. These are the people that work the quarries at Pipestone Monument.  May anger some people, but this is what they do: quarry stone and make pipes.

[Jim Tree]

Hi All,
I have been a voting councel member of the Keepers for several years. We are an inter tribal org that is dedicated in preserving both free accsess to the quarries for all Registered NA's as well the art of Pipemaking.
As with all things of this nature, we have those who oppose what we stand for as well as those who stand by us. I would be happy to answer any questions about this.
I personal do not sell the Pipes I make but I support those who do, esspeically those who live in Pipestone itself.
Tree

[debbieredbear]

Thanks for letting us know Jim. I spoke with some of the pipemakers when I was at Pipestone Monument. THey shared their belief that the pipe is not sacred until it is made sacred. Therefore, they did not feel it was wrong to sell them. While I am uncomfortable with the idea that too many frauds and nuagers can get the pipes, I understand where the pipemakers were coming from. And some were 2nd and 3rd generation pipemakers.

[Matt_Bowerman]

Thanks for the message Jim. Thanks for posting.

Matt

[ravenhair]

Bla,BLa,Bla didnt any one listen to orvol lokinghorse no!people just cant make an art of making pipes get a grip the buffalo shed its blood so we can have this pipe stone we( full bloods ) we have our own tribal guards that deal with ousiders trying to take pipe stone there is only one calf pipe orvol looking horse is the 19 generation pipe keeper when it was brought to us (lakotas) 19 geneations ago by the medicne calf woman
he caled upon anyone having a pipe to please bring it back it dosent belong to whites or anything other then confirmed bloded indians period no one can teach you to make a pipe you make your own only  after the 5th rite as it was given to us 19 generations ago.chanupa was giving to us so we can be guided back to grand father.(A man has many chances to live but he ha only one chance to die and when he dies he shall look at grandfather with open eyes and no shame) It is not ok for these people to be going around and teaching this very sacred rite that was given only to us the full blooded indians...

[debbieredbear]

Not everyone who's tribe had pipes are Lakota/Dakota/Nakota. So what Arvol Looking Horse has to say does not apply to them. Anishanabes, Kiowas, Cheyennes, Arapahos, and many other tribes also used the Pipestone found at Pipestone Monument.

[Moma_porcupine]

There is some more information on the general history around the use of Pipestone  in the link below .
http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=1325.0

The thread above was started asking about the sale of Pipestone on EBay and the more I research this controversy ,the more questions I have about who these people are .
 
Bud Johnson ,  who is the president of this organization is Chippewa .

It appears Bud Johnson was involved in trying to get a theme park going in Pipestone that a lot of Native people feel would be a desecration .

http://www.petitiononline.com/NOTE1PS/petition.html

http://www.geocities.com/natives2003/comments.html
Bud Johnson
"Yes, the concept is true. There are lots of other errors in this petition though McDonalds has nothing to do with it. We have spent 5 yrs trying to bring this about. We have invested a lot of time in this PROPOSED project The physical location is NOT at the Pipestone National Monument it is in the Pipestone area. (con..)"

"Take a look at our site www.pipekeepers.org for more info about us. Megwetch, Bud Johnston President Keepers of the Sacred Tradition of Pipemakers "(on the webpage there is a response to his comment below)

He also did an interview with John Lekay and said a few interesting things;

http://www.heyokamagazine.com/HEYOKA.6.BudJOHNSTON.htm

"JL: What is the history of this mining site?

BJ: Our people have used these quarries in Pipestone for over 2,000 yrs."

Odd , from the history I read , available through the first link , the Chippewa weren't from the area , and didn't arrive in Michegan until about 1500 . The Chippewa / Ojibwa lived mainly in Michegan until 1730 , when they moved into Minnisota displacing the Dakota / Lakota .

"JL:. What are your thoughts on the Lakota, Nakota and Dakota Chief Arvol Looking Horses proclamations on the pipe?

BJ: It sucks, who does he think he is? The pipes and ceremonies have been used for thousands of years by many tribes. The Lakota have their version as do many others"

But when Lekay asks him about how his tribes recieved their instructions on the used of the Sacred Pipe ;
 
"JL: Is the Lakota version (WBCP) the origin of the pipe for all the other tribes. Or does each tribe have their own origin?"

Bud says ;

"BJ: That is a Dakota/Lakota version (WBCP) the origin of the pipe for all the other tribes vary from tribe to tribe. Many tribes have no story and others like mine have a story only about the tobacco coming to the people ."

Can anyone show any evidence the Ojibwa or the Cherokee people who act as Spiritual advisors for this group called the Keepers of the Sacred Tradition of Pipemakers , actually had a tradition of using the Plains style of Sacred Pipe, such as these people offer for sale?  Is there any evidence that the Ojibway and Cherokee  people commonly used the Minnesota Pipestone for any ceremonial or non ceremonial purpose ?

Bud Johnson's wife Rona Johnston " Cherokee" (also Ojibwa, German, Irish, French) mentions Buck Ghost Horse, as one of her teachers
http://www.pipekeepers.org/r_moore.htm

I don't know most of the people she names , but Buck Ghost Horse is named with a bunch of well known exploiters in the article in the link below.

http://www.sonomacountyfreepress.com/features/native.html
Wendy Rose (Hopi) "Do the names Sun Bear, Wallace Black Elk, Oh Shinna Fast Wolf, Brook Medicine Eagle, Harley Reagan Swiftdeer, Buck Ghost Horse, or Mary Thunder mean anything to you? Well, they should, because these pseudo-medicine quacks are passing themselves off as Native American spiritual leaders.

Jim or James Medicine Tree , is another member , who repeatedly mentions he is a Spiritual advisor to the group and who was a member of NAFPS , and posted in this topic;

http://jtreepipes.bravehost.com/
From further down the page ;
"My name is James Medicine Tree {Jim Tree} and I am a Non-enrolled Cherokee, Wolf clan, Bear {Colorado} River band."

Is there Cherokee bands in Colorado ?

( this link also mentions a Mayan Cherokee woman ? , who Jim Tree mentions as one of his Elders of influence , below but as they are passed on I won't say this name here )

http://wayofthepipe.com/Jim-Tree-Author-Writer.htm
The Way of the Sacred Pipe

"Jim Tree sits as a spiritual advisor on the council for the “Keepers of the Sacred Tradition of Pipemakers." (con,,)
"His Elders of influence are Adam Fortunate Eagle, spiritual leader of the “Keepers???, the late Lilly Windrider Nevarez, member of the Cherokee Medicine Society, M. Running Deer, an Apache spiritual leader, and the late Larry War Eagle, Cherokee spiritual leader."

http://www.sustainabledreaming.com/jim.html

Apparently Jim Tree went to Australia in early 2007,to Pray to end the drought there .

http://www.drjudyschmidt.com/Pages/JamesTreeGilmore.html
He works as a CranioSacral Therapist

Looks pretty non traditional to me
http://www.theriverwindfoundation.org/AWSG.htm

And he has something called the Buffalo Lodge . Has anyone ever heard of these traditional ? teachings being offered ?

http://buffalolodge.bravehost.com/

He also did an interview for John Lekay;
http://www.heyokamagazine.com/HEYOKA.6.PIPE.JimMedicineTree.htm

The links below lead to another interesting article which mentions one of Jim Tree's Elders of influence As he is reportedly passed on , I won't say this man's name either.

http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,595090574,00.html
I didn't know there was a band of Cherokee's in Salt lake Utah ...

Jim Tree mentions Adam Fortunate Eagle, spiritual leader of the “Keepers???. Some info on him is below ;

http://www.onlinenevada.org/Adam_Fortunate_Eagle
"Although he is a Chippewa from Minnesota, Adam Fortunate Eagle has become an established artist in Nevada’s Native American community. "
 
"Although he creates some contemporary sculptures, Fortunate Eagle developed his stone-working skills on traditional pipes, made from a red stone that is quarried in Minnesota."

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2002/10/21/MN3809.DTL
Bay Area's trickster grandfather of radical Indian movement ( He was involved in AIM and was possibly an organizer of the occupation of Alcatraze )

The only Lakota I can find mentioned who is a part of this group , is Travis Erickson ,an enrolled member of the Sisseton-Wahpeton Sioux Tribe.

http://www.pipekeepers.org/travis_erickson.htm

"He sells the pipes to anyone whose 'heart is into it," including non-Indians. "My responsibility is to carve the pipe. My responsibility is not what they do after that," he says.

But Erickson, like many modern practitioners, has tailored the pipe tradition to his own use.

"When I started using the pipe in my life, I followed it straight," he says. "I did that for two years. I really felt constrained, tied in. I wasn't given enough room to do what I felt should be done.

"Just because you are praying doesn't mean you have to take the pipe out every time."

"Such willingness to adapt the pipe falls comfortably in line with Lakota tradition, where sacred ceremonies are conducted in accordance with each medicine man's spiritual vision."

"For instance, some of the stone Erickson is quarrying will create a pipestone floor inlay in the national Native American museum being built on the Smithsonian mall in Washington, D.C.

http://www.nativevillage.org/Editorials/NMAI/NMAI%20pipestone%20embroils%20new
%20nmai%20buil.htm

"WASHINGTON - Even before opening, the new building of the National Museum of the American Indian has become embroiled in a long-standing dispute among followers of the Sacred Pipe religious tradition."

"After complaints from some Lakota religious leaders, NMAI Director Rick West decided to remove an installation of red pipestone from the atrium floor of the new building (con..)"

"Museum Director West, southern Cheyenne, told the Minneapolis Star Tribune that he consulted about a dozen tribal leaders and Indian staff members before deciding to remove the stones. "People have very strong views on both sides of this, but the weight of the sentiment was to remove the stones," he said."

[Moma_porcupine]

Here is some more ;
Jim Tree in 2004
http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=31.msg60#msg60

Jim or James Tree

"Here is my imput on this, but understand that it is just from my experiance and limited background. I am Cherokee but by no means imersed enough in my culture to be
a representitive of it. I am still learning our ways. I am a Pipe carver and a Cherokee. I have carved a few Pipes in the plains style but mainly carve what would be called "effigie" Pipes. "

So how does a person go from a limited background and still learning , in 2004 , to knowing enough to become a Spiritual advisor to the "Keepers of the Sacred Tradition of Pipemakers" , in 2006 ?

Why does a Spiritual advisor to a group of people dedicated to selling Pipes , repeatedly explain he personally doesn't sell Ceremonial Pipes because of their Sacred nature  ?

And if the teachings of the Buffalo Lodge being offered by Jim Tree are traditional, and he was instructed to share these with all mankind , why does the web page inviting people to join this lodge, say all the information is copyright protected ?

And there is more stuff here that doesn't make any sense . (from the first post quoting from the webpage of this organization )

"We believe in preserving the Sacred Tradition of the pipe and allowing free access to the Great Pipestone Quarries for all Native Americas as they have been for time immemorial and support the art of pipemaking.  We also believe it is important to preserve each tribes unique culture, arts and stories for future generations."

http://www.pipekeepers.org/beginning.htm

The Keepers members are in 40 states, Germany, Switzerland, Canada, Sweden, Faroe Island, Australia, and most of Europe. Over 1/2 of our members are tribal members from over 35 different tribes

.

Pipestone from this particular place, is supposed to be legally protected , and only directly available to enrolled Indians . How is creating an organization which has a large non indian membership , and which has come to dominate the protocols and culture around the distribution of Pipes and Pipestone , helping to preserve each tribes unique culture ? I especially wonder about this , when from what I can see, a substantial number of those members who are Indian are urban, and they say they grew up largely outside of their culture . (?)   

How is being willing to sell an item with deep cultural signifigence , completely out of it's cultural context , going to help preserve each tribes unique culture ? 

Ah ...and I see Bud in over in Pipestone, MN (USA)has been forwarding Lekay's associate Elizabeth's misleading article which is trying to discredit the message in the film Spirits for Sale .
ht tp://my2point2cents.wordpress.com/2007/08/30/spirits-for-sale/
Gee ...I wonder what Bud's interests really are ...preservation of the culture or $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ hmmmmmmm .

As Adam Fortunate Eagle, is said to be the spiritual leader of the "Keepers", I am posting some of the information about him found in the article in the links below .

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2002/10/21/MN3809.DTL

"Nordwall was born in 1929 in Red Lake, Minn. His mother, Rose, was Chippewa;his father, Anton, of Swedish descent. The family of eight lived on the north side, the Christian missionary side, of a 200,000-acre lake. He sometimes wonders now how his life might have turned out had he grown up on the south side, the pagan
Indian side, of the lake.

When Adam was 5, his father died. The Swedish side of his family had long since disowned them. Against his mother's wishes, Adam and four other Nordwalls were shipped to a boarding school, Pipestone Indian Training School."

(con..)

"Some Native American scholars and activists have called Nordwall's book a fascinating history of the birth of Indian activism in the Bay Area. Others have attacked it as a 215-page tome of self-promotion. They say Nordwall exaggerates his role in the Alcatraz uprising and demeans the seriousness of the cause by his "clownish" behavior. LaNada Boyer, one of the original occupiers of Alcatraz as a UC Berkeley student activist, says Nordwall soared to prominence by embarrassing his people.

"We younger people involved at the time knew what he was about," said Boyer,who now lives on a reservation in Idaho. "He liked to use the Indian cause for his own benefit as a publicity seeker. He likes to be known as the big guy.

It's the attention he craves. People get taken in."

Joe Myers, the executive director of the National Indian Justice Center in Petaluma, counters that Nordwall's "act" was all about raising awareness. "(con..)

"In 1987, headdress-making landed Fortunate Eagle in jail for selling protected eagle feathers to an undercover Fish and Wildlife agent. Federal prosecutors in Reno sought a six-year prison term for Nordwall, who admitted to having eagle feathers but argued he had the right to have them because of freedom of religion.

A criminal trial ended in a hung jury, 11-to-1 for acquittal. But Nordwall later was found guilty in a civil trial and forced to pay $15,000 in damages."

There is some information in the link below, explaining how the largely urban American Indian Movement played a role in non Lakota people partially learning Lakota traditions  , and how this incomplete knowledge that was shared , led to problems.   
http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=1326.0

Though this "Keepers of the Sacred Tradition of Pipemakers" group may be supported by local economic intrests , I find Arvol Looking Horse to be a much more credible representive of traditional views on these matters .

http://www.dlncoalition.org/dln_issues/protection_of_ceremonies.htm
Arvol Looking Horse

"I have my own personal feelings on who should be Keepers of our Sacred C’anupa (Pipe). The C’anupa is very sacred and the  Keeper should first be given a dream and be of Native decent. This issue should be further discussed in our future meetings.  The reason for my feelings is that I am aware the C’anupa has gone out to the International community and has been for sale.  I know that most non-Native People do not understand the important protocols or have had the Traditional background to carry
 this sacred item properly. I am aware of women in their moon and men with blood on their hands (to take ones life intentionally) have been allowed to touch and carry the C’anupa. These serious situations were never to be allowed. I offer thanks to the non-Native People that have returned the C’anupa to our People, after I privately shared my concerns with them. I acknowledge their true sincerity in assisting our Nation to protect the survival of our Traditional way of life on behalf  of our future generations. They have helped us bring back honor and respect to our sacred Ho-co-ka and C’anupa.

The original teachings were that the Pipe Carrier should make their own C’anupa. There was an understanding of the sincere spiritual energy and the traditional values passed down through our bloodlines. All the values of compassion, love, honor, respect and truth are molded into the spiritual life they are creating. I hope that one day the future generations will again pick up this important protocol."

http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=28.msg51#msg51
Arvol Looking Horse

"In a broader context, Looking Horse said the pipestone protest was part of the campaign to protect the sacred rites. "What we're up against today," he said, "is every time you turn around someone is borrowing our ceremonies. We're talking about protection of our ceremonies. In spiritual sense, we have a spiritual people getting sick as a people. It falls back on our people, and people are getting  sick because of it. Even people are trying to blame me. They say that I'm doing this and I'm doing that, and people are getting sick. Look at what's happening to the sacred sites and the pipestone quarries, the red pipestone itself. They're selling that and abusing that, and that's why the people are getting sick."

"And one of the elders we have today said the leaders think about the seventh generation, but today people just think about their back pocket. We need to bring strong leaders back to our sacred way, they need to understand why we have sicknesses
and negative energy - because people are not walking the sacred way of life."

It seems the only way Sacred traditions can survive , without being degraded through commercialization , would be if the power too make basic policy decisions is in the hands of those most concerned to respect and conserve these traditions . Not in the hands of those who want to make money selling them .

Although many traditionalists do not write letters or go to protests or post things on the internet , and even though many Elders express their sadness simply by a stoney silence and looking away , the values and concerns expressed by Arvol Looking Horse are very widespread and mainstream . ( for those who don't know the quiet ways of many traditional Elders , I would recommend reading Rupert Ross's book Dancing With a Ghost )  As the strict protocols are only attached to the Pipestone in this one location , and Pipestone is found in other locations , it isn't like these carvers have no other choice of materials.   

I support the traditional people who wish to see the protocols around the use of this Sacred Stone respected .

[Moma_porcupine]

Sorry there is still more . There is also Jim's book ... The more I read the more I think ... no
it can't be ...and then I read more , and think...no it can't be ....
 http://wayofthepipe.com/Indian-Pipe-Prophecy.htm
Jim Tree

However, using the Sacred Pipe without knowing its power or purpose is like obtaining a weapon but not understanding what it is capable of, especially if misused. Improper care or use of such a powerful sacred object can be as disastrous as it can be
beneficial. Trying to access the medicine of the Pipe without proper understanding can be as dangerous as playing with a loaded gun. Someone usually gets hurt, often a loved one

. 

I guess the book is claiming to teach all the proper protocols that goes with the Pipes Jim's friends are selling . Can these cultural traditions really be properly taught in a book?

Bud Johnson seems to think so ...

http://www.back40books.com/get_item_978-0977-782000.htm

Bud Johnston, (Anishinaabe) President, Keepers of the Sacred Tradition of Pipemakers. "In this instructive volume, Jim Tree takes us on a voyage through part of Native America and it's traditions that outsiders know little or nothing about. A good read."

This book review in the link above also mentions

Tim "Shadow Viper" Ott(Cherokee), Vienna, Austria. "What a breath of fresh air among all the plastic and Hollywood Stereotypes to see the real thing: Honest and authentic teachings put forth in a respectable format. Thanks to Jim Tree for this gift to the seven generations

Tim "Shadow Viper"Ott is also mentioned on Jim Tree's web site , and it appears he is a friend , and he is also an associate member of the Keepers of the Sacred Tradition of Pipemakers.

http://wayofthepipe.com/Indian-Pipe-Prophecy.htm

Adam, an Anishinabie elder, sharing the way of the Pipe with
Tim, a young Cherokee who lives in Austria

http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:bwzpXKwhK2IJ:www.wurzelwerk.at/infos/merr
ymeet/2003/programm.php+Cherokee+%22Shadow+Viper%22&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=4&gl=ca

A Walk Around the Wheel of Medicine  Workshop

Shadow Viper comes to us from Ohio in the US, where he has been active in the Pagan Community in one way  or another for over 10 years.

Brought up with the traditional teachings and stories of the Cherokee people by his
grandfather (himself Cherokee), SV took this one step further by visiting the Medicine Elders and learning all he could about the Path of Medicine  of the Cherokee and the Way of Right.Relationship. Shadow Viper has also been initiated into the Awenyddic Order of the Silver Star (Trefn Seren Ariannaid) to the 3rd degree, and in the Liberal Dianic Wiccan Tradition to the 2nd Degree. He is an associate member of the Keepers of the Sacred Tradition of Pipemakers, and a frequent contributor to Wurzelwerk.

A Walk Around the Wheel of Medicine Workshop (teilweise englisch mit dt. Übersetzung)

The Medicine Wheel as a symbol and concept has been utilized by the AniTsalagi (Cherokee) peoples for centuries to find peace and balance within themselves, their relationships, and their surroundings. This lecture will serve as an introduction to the Cherokee Wheel of Medicine. And we shall explore the meanings of the various points along it, as well as their applications to our everyday lives. For Pagans, shamans, or just people who want to have a better understanding about themselves, we invite you take part in this seminar, and discover the time-honored Cherokee traditions of the Wheel of Medicine.

He currently lives in Vienna, Austria, where he divides his time between caring for his
newborn daughter, his continued writings, and overseeing Trefn Seren Ariannaid affairs and training on two continents.
 

When I read the interveiw Jim Tree had with John Lekay , something that was said , or
not said ,about a Pipe made me wonder ;
 
http://www.heyokamagazine.com/HEYOKA.6.PIPE.JimMedicineTree.htm
JL:  Can you please tell me about the thunder beings on your black pipe stone pipe bowel and is the spirit of this pipe the spirit of the Wakinyan?

Jim Tree: Yes, the spirit living in this Pipe is one of the children of the Great Red and the Great Blue Thunders. (Wakinyan in Lakota) There are two Thunderbirds on each side of the bowl of this Pipe, one with a red eye and one with a blue one. They have a bolt of lightening going through each one.

JL:  Could have this black pipe belonged to a thunder dreamer medicine man of some sort?

Jim Tree: This Pipe is from a nation where the black stone is considered more sacred than the red, it is one of around 125 pipes created over the last 400 years for a medicine society of that nation. There are maybe 25 left still in service today, most have been stolen, destroyed, retired (buried) or are in the possession of collectors or in museums.

(con...)

JL: . What tribe did your ceremonial thunder pipe belong to.

Jim Tree: It still does belong to the tribe of origin, I have been charged with the responsibility to care for it by the holder of the original Pipe bundle. The purpose of this Pipe according to the words of that keeper is to "take care of me, my family and my people." My people are all who honor the Great Mystery and understand that we are all related, not just the Cherokee.
--------------
But he never answers the question . Here he explains a bit more of the story .
---------------
http://wayofthepipe.com/The-Way-Of-The-Sacred-Pipe.htm
Jim Tree

I received a phone call from a woman I knew, who wanted to know if I could help her evaluate some “artifacts??? her late husband had collected.

-------------

She had a nice collection of arrowheads, spear points and pottery, all old and worth a good deal, but what really caught my attention were several old Pipes she had in a box. Two of these were obviously taken from graves of the mound builders, and the others were wonderful examples of late 1800’s style Pipes

--------------

I advised her they should be returned to their original tribes or families to be taken care of properly. She said she would think about it but she really needed the money.

-------------

As I was getting ready to leave, she remembered one other Pipe she had and asked if I wanted to see it. I said “of course???, and she brought out a big black stone Ceremonial Pipe with lead Thunderbird inlays on the bowl.

---------

As things turned out, the widow ended up passing the Pipe on to me because of my helping her with the other items.

---------
I guess that's why Jim never explained to Lekay what Nation the Pipe originated in .
But how does this story fit with Jim's statement to Lekay that he has been charged with the responsibility to care for this Pipe , by the holder of the original Pipe bundle?

Who is this person and what is their tribe?

I know that some tribes probably had an acceptable way of commissioning a Pipe which required a lot of intricate carving and the skill to do this , but I doubt selling Pipes to strangers, and books on how to use them, serves the long term health of anybodies culture .

I don't know enough to comment on this .  Maybe some one else could explain something about the different traditions and what is acceptable to some tribes and what isn't .

I'm off to go figure out how to wash my mind ...

[educatedindian]

Nordwall/Fortunate Eagle's part in Alacatraz wasn't that large. No one's was more than anyone else's, really. He calls himself the organizer when really the whole thing was spontaneous, small groups deciding on their own. Others were at Alacatraz before he showed up, and the main group best known for the occupation deliberately chose a time when he was out of time to launch the occupation. (Nordwall was an exterminator living in the suburbs. The name Fortunate Eagle as given to him by a Crow man, not his own people.) They complained he was a publicity seeker and regarded the whole thing as a joke or stunt.

So I don't know why Tree would call an Anishnaabe without much ties to any NDN community (up to the time he moved onto the Paiute rez in Nevada) "his elder".

That, plus two he says are Cherokee elders who've passed on and an Apache whose band and first name are never mentioned.

It's also worth noting they say that they have members of Manataka as members of their group too, and that they link to the phony "Red Nation of the Cherokee," Dupree, and Lekay's tabloid.
http://www.pipekeepers.org/links.htm

Interesting, Dupree's link on the pipekeepers site now says she represents "Lakota women and Creek."

The pipekeepers also link to a pretty obvious fraud, Eva Rose Goetz, who deserves her own thread.

[Moma_porcupine]

There is a third side to this story ( and maybe more than that)

There is a Dakota family that has been quarrying the stone in the area and selling Pipes since the 1920's.

http://web.archive.org/web/20040705215354/littlefeathercenter.50megs.com/welcome1.html

They also seem associated with some questionable people , ( Ed McGaa (Eagle Man))

Guess they don't think much of the "Keepers".

http://web.archive.org/web/20040704093831/littlefeathercenter.50megs.com/pipestone2.html

" Misrepresentation

In 1996 a new organization was started in Pipestone. It was started by an Ojibwa man who lives in Nevada, and a few of the Pipestone pipemakers. He wanted to start a church-like group, so that the people who were members could say legitimately that their religion advocated the selling of the Pipe. They saw it as a way to rid themselves of the Pipestone issue.

Although it was something as important as the spirituality that very many Native people follow, and although he and his followers were advised by a respected elder to invite Medicine Men, Elders and those who used the Pipe from all over the country, they didn't. Only about 20 people attended the meeting and the vote that has been reported as over- whelmingly for the Church came out as 14 for, 1 against, 1 abstention. (Addendum 3/2000: This vote is starting to look strange, as so far 4 people have told us that they either voted against or abstained!)

Even though the spokesman for the Pipestone Dakota Community, Chuck Derby, attended the meeting the vote was taken after a break while he was out of the room. The sessions started again and the microphones were turned off so that he couldn't
hear from his office at the other end of the building. No-one had the courtesy to come and notify him that they had resumed and that the vote was taking place so he didn't get to vote.

Chuck had publicly spoken out against the forming of a church for Pipemakers, and had been the one advising them to invite others from all over, so there was resentment involved. It has also been stated over the internet and other channels that there were pipemakers attending the meeting from all across the country. Well maybe that statement is somewhat acceptable as one man attending came from Oklahoma, the leader came from Nevada, and there were maybe one or two from just across the
border, South Dakota. These people I guess represented pipemakers from all over the country!

On the same day that this meeting took place, the leader appointed himself, 'Spiritual Leader' of the group. He ran sweats that night, and took flesh offerings from the people at those sweats. The next morning he and his followers went to each quarry and blessed it, they also left the flesh offerings in those quarries. People who have worked the same quarry for many years felt very offended at this action as they already pray and leave their own offerings in their quarry. (He has continued to do this every August since then, many of the quarriers have told the park service that they do not want their quarry blessed, however this year ALL quarries were blessed, causing exasperation by the quarriers who didn't want this to happen and who feel offended by it.)"
(con..)

I see the "Keepers" do call themselves a Church .

http://www.heyokamagazine.com/HEYOKA.8.JimTree.Australia.htm

'In February of 2007,  two representatives of the "Keepers of the Sacred Tradition of Pipemakers", (    www.pipekeepers.org  ) a Federally recognized Native American Church"

[debbieredbear]

My husband and I were there in 1992 so this occurred after our visit. The only people we spoke with were the Ojibway and Dakota people who had been there for years. Now I understand this group better as what they were saying did not totally jibe with whast I learned.

[Defend the Sacred]

Thank you, Moma, for taking the time to compile all this information!  This is important stuff, and I want to thank you for all this good work.

I would love to see the information on pipestone and abuse of the C'anupa distilled into an article and published.  There was an article on C'anupa on the older version of the NAFPS website, which I often linked to when trying to explain to people why they shouldn't buy pipes or pipestone.  I wish we could get that re-posted, as well.   

I think one of the things we need to do is to get to a place where we can present some of these, admittedly sometimes complicated, issues to people who right now just don't get it.  Some will never get it, especially when their livelihood depends on it, but... I have to hope some people can be educated, especially if we can manage to simplify it for them.

I support the traditional people who wish to see the protocols around the use of this Sacred Stone respected.

So do I. 

It's overwhelming, but this situation has to change.  It's just appalling the way it is right now.  Don't even get me started on what I've seen among the white Pagans.  It's just hideous...

[earthw7]

The pipestone is sacred and should not be abused.