“Federally Recognized Tribe”

[menotomy]

Why would anyone give significance to the fact that some group is, or is not, part of a “Federally Recognized Tribe”?
That is a political distinction.  It should be ignored in my opnion.

[Ingeborg]

Perhaps your question may be answered here:

http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=1.0

[Defend the Sacred]

In addition to the info linked to by Ingeborg (thanks ) we have threads on fake tribes. Fake tribes do a lot of harm when they scam people, promote stereotypes, or participate in cultural genocide by teaching inaccurate things. We also find that many pretendians and shameons ally themselves with the fake tribes, because the real ones won't have them.

[menotomy]

Man I’ve got to get up to speed on names like pretendians and shameons.

I’ve read that link (http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=1.0) a few times already.

I guess I understand the fake tribe angle, but imposters align themselves with ‘real’ tribes, too.

My point is my discomfort with the number of smaller tribes which are somehow depreciated because they are not ‘recognized’ by some anglo-based political structure.

[Diana]

Man I’ve got to get up to speed on names like pretendians and shameons.

I’ve read that link (http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=1.0) a few times already.

I guess I understand the fake tribe angle, but imposters align themselves with ‘real’ tribes, too.

My point is my discomfort with the number of smaller tribes which are somehow depreciated because they are not ‘recognized’ by some anglo-based political structure.

Hi menotomy and welcome to the forum, could you please be a little more specific on the smaller tribes you are talking about? Such as they're names and what area they're from? And who is this "anglo-based" political structure you're talking about?


Lim lemtsh,

Diana

[critter - a white non-ndn person]

I have a thought that may be incorrect thinking regarding the fakes and all
the new age creeps who take the wee tiny bit they know and kindle it into
some made up ceremony and call it "Native"..

My thought is this:  Although it sucks, and many people are misled, in the
end it is helping true Indian Peoples to keep their real ceremony private
and sacred. They (shameons and pretendians) can play with the fake stuff,
they will harm people unfortunately, but the real ceremonies are not "out there"
in the hands of these people.. and the more they pass on these fake made up
ceremonies, the more the real ceremonies are protected..

I don't condone it, and I feel bad for all the people being duped and of course,
I hate that they use various tribes names to make profit.. but the real ceremonies
are kept with the real people, and no one knows those except the people to who
they belong and who they choose to share them with..

Does any of this make sense or am I just off..

[LittleOldMan]

Why would anyone give significance to the fact that some group is, or is not, part of a “Federally Recognized Tribe”?
That is a political distinction.  It should be ignored in my opnion.

A Federally "Recognized Tribe" is one that has a State to State relationship with the Federal Gov.  thereby granting them certain benefits.  Some examples but not an all inclusive are money, fishing/hunting rights, casino plus  inclusion in certain programs not available to non tribal people (Indian Health service) ETC.  There are also blood quantum requirements in some descent in others.  Example:  Lakota require 1/4 blood, correct me if I am incorrect, Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma (CNO) requires only that you can show direct lineal descent from the Dawes Roll.  They must also be able to prove that they have been in a certain geographical area from a set time in history as an interrelated community. 

State recognized tribes have a State to State relationship with the chartering state but not with the federal Gov.  Citizens of a state tribe usually but not all ways can't meet the all the requirements of a Federal Tribe.  Example:  A man age 30 born full blood Cherokee of Eastern Band if he was not registered before age three or at age eighteen cannot be a citizen.  (Not sure this may have been changed)  Can't be CNO not descended form Dawes Roll member.  Dare anyone call him not Cherokee?

Because of the MONEY angle a Federal Card among some has become a tell all and end all of "Indianess".  There are many many people of mixed heritage out there and while I believe it good to recognize one's ancestors one needs to approach this with care, honor, respect and correct knowledge of the culture.  If your people didn't do a Lakota Pipe ceremony why in the name of all that's Holy should you feel that it's for you?   Written to the best of my knowledge if I am incorrect please correct.  Offered with respect and honor  "LittleOldMan"     

[menotomy]

Hi menotomy and welcome to the forum, could you please be a little more specific on the smaller tribes you are talking about? Such as they're names and what area they're from? And who is this "anglo-based" political structure you're talking about?
Lim lemtsh,
Diana

In my area (Massachusetts) only the Wampanoags are listed (http://www.bia.gov/WhoWeAre/BIA/OIS/TribalGovernmentServices/TribalDirectory/index.htm).

By "anglo-based" political structure, I’m referring to the people and the process by which a group becomes “recognized”.

 

[Diana]

Quote from: Diana on January 17, 2012, 02:35:52 am
Hi menotomy and welcome to the forum, could you please be a little more specific on the smaller tribes you are talking about? Such as they're names and what area they're from? And who is this "anglo-based" political structure you're talking about?
Lim lemtsh,
Diana


In my area (Massachusetts) only the Wampanoags are listed (http://www.bia.gov/WhoWeAre/BIA/OIS/TribalGovernmentServices/TribalDirectory/index.htm).

By "anglo-based" political structure, I’m referring to the people and the process by which a group becomes “recognized”.

LOL, thanks for the even more cryptic and vague answers. Funny, it's what you don't say that speaks volumes.


Lim lemtsh,

Diana

[menotomy]

Pawtucket, Nipmuc, Wamesit, Musketaquid, Pennacook or even Massachusett. 
None “Recognized”. Though these are people who are the seeds of many others, their “recorded” history starts in the 1600s and they fall off the charts after that.

I’m not sure what you are implying by your response but my impression leaves me believing this is some kind of bullshit sandbox.

[Diana]

Pawtucket, Nipmuc, Wamesit, Musketaquid, Pennacook or even Massachusett. 
None “Recognized”. Though these are people who are the seeds of many others, their “recorded” history starts in the 1600s and they fall off the charts after that.

I’m not sure what you are implying by your response but my impression leaves me believing this is some kind of bullshit sandbox.

I'm sorry you feel that way and I wasn't sure what you were implying with your vague and generalized statements. That's why I politely asked you a couple of questions to get a better understanding and we both know you gave me "bullshit" answers. If you don't like being asked questions on an open forum then don't post.


Lim lemtsh,

Diana

[earthw7]

As a federal recogized tribal member from a large land base tribal nation
what it means is we have a treaty (1851 Fort Laramie Treaty and 1868 Fort Laramie Treaty)
signed with the United States so we have a nation to nation status, that means we are a nation.
No one made us a nation we just are a nation and have always been.
Some tribe did not sign treaties as nations the US government did not make us
Federally recogized we were recogized by our treaty if you can understand
the way that works, we did not go though a progess to be recogized we just are.
That means we have always had a government structure, language, culture, spirituality
and a way of life that has not been interrupted.
The 590 Federally Recogized Tribe and

The State Redcogized Tribes
Chappquiddick Tribe of the Wampanog Indian Nation
 

[Smart Mule]

Pawtucket, Nipmuc, Wamesit, Musketaquid, Pennacook or even Massachusett. 
None “Recognized”. Though these are people who are the seeds of many others, their “recorded” history starts in the 1600s and they fall off the charts after that.

I’m not sure what you are implying by your response but my impression leaves me believing this is some kind of bullshit sandbox.

Menotomy, I currently live in Massachusetts.  None of the above that you mentioned have continuously operated as a tribal entity.  The Nipmuc have state recognition.

[menotomy]

Thank you, earthw7 and sky.

>>None of the above that you mentioned have continuously operated as a tribal entity

In my opinion this is totally random.  Or, rather worse than random, it is simply based on when Plague or  “Discovery” or Politics decided to start counting.  “Federally Recognized” starts counting when this area was “Settled”.   

Well before that time there were established groups, trade patterns, currencies, societies and 7,000 years of agreed upon business deals, truths, etc.

[Defend the Sacred]

Thank you, earthw7 and sky.

>>None of the above that you mentioned have continuously operated as a tribal entity

In my opinion this is totally random.  Or, rather worse than random, it is simply based on when Plague or  “Discovery” or Politics decided to start counting.  “Federally Recognized” starts counting when this area was “Settled”.   

Menotomy, I'm not sure where you're going with this, or where you're coming from.

If I understand what you're saying, I don't think there is anything "random" about what factors have to be present to indicate a cultural group/tribe/nation has survived intact. It's about landbase, spirituality, language, all the things Earthw7 explained.

Do you understand that being part of an intact cultural group is a different experience from being an assimilated person, from an assimilated family, who has only distant ancestry? Did you read those threads about whether BQ and enrollment matter, and what people think makes an NDN, well, NDN?