GhostWolf/Kirael/FredSterling/GMScallion

[Barnaby_McEwan]

But which culture/tradition/religion should I pursue?  Christianity?  No, that is only a few thousand years old, doesn't fit at all with the values I grew up with, and I wanted to go back to the earliest possible historical beginnings of my roots.

'Only a few thousand years old'! If you only looked back just a few hundred years, you could find mystical, egalitarian Christian sects in medieval and early modern Europe. In continental Europe, the Bogomils, the Cathars, the Albigensians, the Anabaptists, etc. In England the Levellers, Ranters, Diggers, etc. Or if you prefer paganism there's Pythagoreanism. After that, but before medieval times, there's 'Celtic' Christianity. Why not take inspiration from the scholarship on what these people believed and strove for? Or (gasp) what about the European socialist tradition which has holistic, earth-honouring tendencies within it just as European Christianity historically has?

A lot of research into what my ancestors were doing and believing in BEFORE Christianity swept Europe showed that they were "pagan" and using "shamanic" techniques, (even tho the word is a translation and used as a word of communication and not a definition).  That felt right, and that is what I have pursued.

Hhhm - most of what's written about 'paganism' is written by people who don't seem to understand the difference between what goes on in their heads and what other people did and thought a long time ago - about which we know hardly anything. This is exactly the rationalisation that newage exploiters use - 'it feels right'. I see from your earlier posts that it 'feels right' to burn sweetgrass too. Where in your research did you discover that pre-Christian Europeans did that?

[guest]

Mr. McEwan.....Christianity is not European.. Jesus was not born in Europe...altho the beliefs did quickly spread to Europe and elsewhere.  You dare to suggest that I "should" be willing to follow any of these paths you mentioned? Why?  They do not speak to me in a Spiritual way.  I cannot follow a path or tradition or set of beliefs if they do not ring true in my soul.  Doing so would make me a hypocrite.  

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
SWEETGRASS is a winter-hardy aromatic perennial grass normally found growing in rich, moist soil from Alaska to Newfoundland in full sun, and is also native to northern Europe. The peoples of both Europe and North America consider this plant sacred and sweetgrass plays an important part in sacred ceremonies on both continents. The leaves are dried and made into braids and burned as a vanilla-scented incense, and used to make baskets which retain the vanilla-like scent for many years
http://www.ecoseeds.com/sweetgrass.html


The genus Hierochloe has a long association with holy ceremonies. The name comes from the Greek hieros, meaning sacred, and chloë, meaning grass or holy-grass.
Habitat: Sweetgrass is classified as native due to its global distribution, which is circumpolar.

http://72.14.207.104/search?q=cache:1Qwn7dNcHqQJ:www.for.gov.bc.ca/hfd/pubs/docs/wp/Wp45/Wp45-m.pdf+sweetgrass+circumpolar&hl=en&lr=lang_en

Sweetgrass is a northern plant found in both North America and Europe (circumpolar), which has led to some interesting speculation as to how it was spread - whether it has grown since the landmasses were one, or carried with migrating peoples.

http://naturalhealthcare.ca/herbology_101.phtml?d=y&herb=Sweetgrass

[Barnaby_McEwan]

Mr. McEwan.....Christianity is not European.. Jesus was not born in Europe...

I'll skim over the unanswered questions and note that you share that immensely crude position with racist groups in the neo-pagan milieu, who see Christianity as a 'Semitic' religion designed (by Jews, though racist neo-pagans are coy about spelling that out in public) to separate 'Indo-Europeans' from their spiritual roots in the soil.

Christianity in its many forms evidently 'feels right' for lots of Europeans. By your increasingly strange logic, they should not do what feels right, though you reserve the right to do what you want, and respond when Indians protest by carping about them in your online 'community'.

You dare to suggest that I "should" be willing to follow any of these paths you mentioned?

I was making a suggestion; I didn't say you 'should' do anything. Calm down.

I cannot follow a path or tradition or set of beliefs if they do not ring true in my soul. Doing so would make me a hypocrite.

Ah, the rush for the high moral ground: that's funny. I'll explain why.

You last came my attention a couple of years ago when Yahoo still hosted our list. You posted now and then, signing yourself 'Ganeida', at about the same time as a question asked by someone with a different ID, about some Hopi imposter, was answered at length by Nick the anthropologist. He gave the questioner permission to reproduce elsewhere what he'd written. An individual using the name 'LadyMoonSpyder' (not the ID the individual used on the NAFPS list) reproduced Nick's answer on your forum without crediting him or NAFPS, merely referring to 'one of my research groups'.

A short while after that, 'LadyMoonSpyder' was trounced by Mike Two Horses in an argument. Another new poster immediately appeared and announced that 'LadyMoonSpyder' had suffered a convenient accident, which was serious enough to prevent her posting. 'LadyMoonSpyder' and I daresay this other briefly-appearing poster, are sock-puppets  of yours, Ganeida.

A comparison of this page with Google's cache of it (not safe for work) will show this. Or you could compare the 'new photos' column on the right of this page with Google's cache.

I think it's a bit late for you to avoid hypocrisy.

SWEETGRASS is a winter-hardy aromatic perennial grass normally found growing in rich, moist soil from Alaska to Newfoundland in full sun, and is also native to northern Europe. The peoples of both Europe and North America consider this plant sacred and sweetgrass plays an important part in sacred ceremonies on both continents.

That's advertising copy from a plant-sales website. Passing off other people's knowledge as your own is a habit you're going to have to break, Ganeida. In this case the information is highly inaccurate, and that makes you look silly. Hardly anyone in Europe has heard of holy-grass, as it's called over here, because it's now so rare in the wild. It got its name here from its former use in *churches*. These days it's mostly used as an ornamental garden plant.

(BTW I made a couple of mistakes in an earlier post; I was wrong to imply that the Bogomils were a holistic Christian sect - substitute Familists, Swedenborgians, the followers of St Francis, Hildegard of Bingen or William Blake if you like. Also the Levellers were more of a political faction than a religious sect: though their decidedly 'earth-centred' ideas were influenced strongly by heretical Christians.)

[educatedindian]

"I do NOT accuse NA's or anyone of things they have/haven't said or done.  It encompasses ALL cultures and the "fact" that I have no right to any article from any of them."

Oh brother...
...when was the last time any NDN anywhere said no nonNatives could wear NDN jewelry? Or buy NDN crafts? Or learn Native history? Or practice values closer to Native ones than European ones, such as a deep regard for the earth?  

"As to practising and honoring Native rituals - I attend when invited by an elder.  I DO NOT conduct any such ritual."

Then part of the criticism you're getting is from your bad choice of words. Instead of saying "we do practice some Native rituals", use the exact wording you just used above. As it stands on your website, it sounds like you do "your own" version of ceremonies such as sweatlodges or visions quests.

"I am of Dutch, Norwegian and Spanish descent and proud of that.  But which culture/tradition/religion should I pursue?"

I don't know anything about pre Christian Spanish traditions, but there's no shortage of Europeans who still practice Viking traditions. I met them in Sweden, and they tell me the place to go to truly learn Viking ways (not surprisingly) is Iceland.

"A lot of research into what my ancestors were doing and believing in BEFORE Christianity swept Europe showed that they were "pagan" and using "shamanic" techniques....Because it is earth-based and earth-honouring it does cross many aspects of a variety of NA traditions."  

Right away there's a couple of problems with these assertions. First is the kneejerk assumption that by imitating NDNs you somehow are being opposed to Christianity.
Many if not most Natives are Christians, often very devout, such as my own mother who became very emotional over the death of the late Pope and then the election of the new one. Many medicine people are also Christian ministers. Many NDN nations have been Christian for as long as five centuries, and it has become what IS traditional.  Christianity is not inherently evil. Many of its values are good ones, though I agree the hierarchy and treatment of women and nature are not among them.

Second is the idea that Native traditions and European paganism could have much more than very broad similarities. After all, I don't know of any credible evidence that Asatru or Druids or anyone other pagans received missionaries from the Aztecs, Iroquois, etc.
One of my favorite analogies is asking how much Protestantism resembles Hinduism. They're both "Indo European" aren't they? But aside from extremely broad things like belief in afterlife or a deity, how much do they really have in common? Some can find much to admire in each others ethics, such as MLK being influenced by Gandhi who was in turn influenced by Thoreau. And if you or anyone else are influenced by Native ethics and philosophy, that's something I'm glad to see. But doing any Native ceremony won't bring you any closer to an understanding of what your Viking ancestors believed. Only studying THEM will.

"They do belong to me - not that I, or anyone, can "own" them."
Very contradictory. Perhaps you should explain again?

"Maybe, up here in Canada, it is different."  
Could be, from what I've seen Canada has far fewer Nuage frauds. And a more protective attitude may be part of why.

"just who the heck is ["Mostafa Salim Dia" "stalker_nagual"  "mostafa dia" "stalker_warrior"]?  This person is all over the web, but that should probably be another topic altogether.  Oh yes....and Millenium Twain  aka Aemortal Twain, yonibluestar,  
MessiahTwain"

Mstafa and stalker both sound like a Castaneda nut. We had a harasser in NAFPS' early days who had dozens of similar IDs.

"I'll continue to provide information when I can and look to your sites for any information you have to share."
OK, good to hear.

[AlaskaGrl]

Hello,  

I had some things here...


""I'm not a "witch", but I have a broom.  I also have an athame, a cauldron and a sword as well as various other "sacred tools" of witchcraft.  Guess I need to burn those. ""

----

Sure you could if you wanted too for these items are not anything they are not "sacred" tools in and of themselves until their owner consecrates them and takes possession of them.  Merely *having* these items lying around does not make them of religious or sacred use to a person.  One does not even need the "table dressings" you mention above to do work.  The idea of "you have to have this" is promulgated by the retail industry including the books out there.  It is curious that you mention you are not a "Witch" or "Wicca" and yet there is a pentacle on your site.  I'm not criticizing just commenting.


"" Europe showed that they were "pagan" and using "shamanic" techniques, (even though the word is a translation and used as a word of communication and not a definition).  That felt right, and that is what I have pursued.  ""

“Pagans,??? they were the regular people that farmed and hunted, they may have known how to use herbs or not but they might have known who to go to in their area for assistance if they could.  They certainly were not anything like Pagans today.  The life then was very harsh, people died young and had to work hard to survive.  There seems to be, if you notice, this much romanticized vision of these people living and worshipping their gods in very idyllic settings and this was not usually the case.  Of course they had to be "close to the earth" because they depended on it for sustenance they had to know the sky, the air and the land and everything in between and how it worked in order to survive.  And yes, sometimes survival meant raiding so villages, towns and cities were formed to bring people together into cohesive protective units.  

I'm here in S. Fl looks like a hurricane is coming this weekend.  There goes working in the garden I think I will make soup instead.  My ancestry on my mom’s side is European we are of the Metcalfe Clan.  I have been called "white" by frauds, I hear it allot it does not bother me but I consider myself of European origin due to the family history.  But I know what you mean about things "feeling" right"  things have to feel right to me too and to me it does not feel right to me to use Sweetgrass in Ceremony it’s just not part of my culture it belongs to someone else.

On a similar note there is a sacred incense called Suffimentum that I recently found for sale at a store that sells items used in the craft.  It is being sold for 150.00 or so along "with instructions."  Suffimentun, like Sweetgrass or Holy Grass has its use in the Church.  Suffimentum is a sweet holy incense.  It was not meant to be used by the average person for their “private use"  “for since men are rude and earthly-minded, there is nothing they are more prone to than to mix up heavenly things with those of earth. Therefore, to elevate their minds the more, it was necessary that the incense, in which there was a special holiness due to God alone, should be set apart from common use.  I was very surprised to see it offered at a site that also caters to the left hand path.  Suffimentum is described in Exodus 30:34-8.  To sum it up, it is not meant to be used as an air freshener.


""Because it is earth-based and earth-honoring it does cross many aspects of a variety of NA traditions. ""


As in numerous cultures acknowledged the directions.  Or you may call them Guardians of the Compass Points.  The Mayan referred to them as the Jaguars.  Others assign colors to the directions or other things.  I acknowledge the directions too.  I don't overlap other cultures and I don't throw in say "Totem animals" with the other things. You probably agree that just because some aspect "crosses many cultures" does not mean people can take bits and pieces of this and that and have something new.  Not all things work because they sound similar.  It is not all because it has to do with Respect.  --It does partly, but it also has to do with other invisible things as well because Ceremony, whatever type, is sacred, personal and magical.

LindaR
near the glades.

[guest]

I don't suppose anyone here would like this guy much, huh?  

Man seeks bond to Native American culture
Adams businessman says it’s about heart, not blood

By ERIN JAMES
For the Daily Record/Sunday News
Sunday, July 24, 2005
http://ydr.com/story/local/78542/

Harry Fleming of Biglerville poses with an assortment of Native American
items, including a medicine wheel, headband and shirt he handcrafted.
Fleming will be traveling to the Rosebud Indian Reservation in South Dakota
in two weeks to attend a Sundance Ceremony in which he will ask to be
adopted as a member of the Lakota tribe.
bigger version
As far as he knows, not a single drop of Indian blood flows through Harry
Fleming’s veins.
But he’ll tell you his blood doesn’t matter.
“My heart’s 200 percent Native American,??? Fleming said. “That’s the way I
feel. That’s the way I live.
And that’s why the Biglerville construction businessman is leaving in two
weeks to visit the Rosebud Indian Reservation in South Dakota and attend a
Sundance Ceremony.
He also has a request to be adopted as a member of the Lakota tribe and be
given an Indian name.
Tribe leaders don’t have to oblige, and Fleming said he’s not sure what to
expect if he is adopted.
Nor does he care.
“I just want to feel connected,??? Fleming said.
Fleming, 54, said his fascination with Indian life began a decade ago when
he opened his doors to a homeless woman, who in turn introduced him to
Native American spirituality.
Since then, Fleming can’t get enough of the culture.
Today, his secluded home in the northwest corner of Adams County is filled
with Native American clothing, jewelry and decorations.
An authentic Native American leather wedding dress from the early 1800s
hangs in one closet. A medicine wheel and dream catchers decorate his office
A buffalo skull sits on a shelf.
Though he is a craftsman and a collector of Native American objects, it is
the culture’s spirituality that really drives Fleming’s fascination.
“It’s a feeling, it’s a way of being. It’s a way of thinking,??? he said.
“It’s hard to explain.
If accepted as a Lakota member, Fleming said he will also join another
exclusive group: those who have been adopted into tribes.
Although he has heard of others, Fleming said he does not personally know
anyone else who has gone through the formality.
Fleming said his “enlightened??? beliefs have affected how he lives his life,
from the way he hunts deer to the way he runs his log cabin and excavating
business.
For example, now Fleming holds a ceremony to give thanks after a successful
hunt. He teaches respect of all living things to his education classes for
young hunters.
And he practices the Native American healing method called channeling, which
Fleming said can cure ailments like headaches and back pain with energy.
“I consider myself as channeling God’s love and light his energy,??? he said.
Fleming’s 22-hour trip to South Dakota, which he will make with a friend,
begins Aug. 6. He will take only basic necessities and his peace pipe, a
tobacco-smoking instrument he wants to have blessed.
It is his first trip to any Indian reservation, but Fleming said he has no
worries.
“When you’re connected to the Great Spirit, things happen,??? he said.

[Guest]

LindaR.....

You wrote: "It is curious that you mention you are not a "Witch" or "Wicca" and yet there is a pentacle on your site.  I'm not criticizing just commenting."


Yes, many "Pagan" groups use the pentagram as a symbol.  As for the "sacred objects", they were at one time used by me.  I studied Wicca for about 5 years and have conducted Wiccan rituals.  These items are still used from time to time as I host circles from a variety of paths and sometimes the "conductor" of the ritual simply consecrates these items to the use of that particular circle event.  I have hosted circles of Shamanic, Druidic, Egyptian, Asatruan, and even Buddhist traditions.  I happen to have the largest basement area, as well as back yard for outdoor use, among my friends and we all believe in supporting each other even tho we all walk different paths.


"Pagan" yes.....more or less meaning "poor folks from the country" and that would describe my ancestors.  


You mention: "Suffimentun, It is being sold for 150.00 or so along "with instructions."  


All I can say to this is "holey crap!"  I suppose a price like that will certainly keep it out of the hands of most Pagans!  

[Guest]

Mr. McEwan

My apologies for being too vague for you.  Quote " The invasion of the European lowlands by the Norwegians and again by the Spanish is why I am here."  

I should have said " The invasion of the European lowlands by the Norwegians and again by the Spanish is why I exist. "

You wrote: "That's advertising copy from a plant-sales website"  So what?  I didn't pass it off as my own, there is a link clearly posted.  

Ganieda.  That would be me, but at least spell it right, please.  

And....who is "Nick the anthropologist"?  I've never heard of anyone by that name.  But I do remember Micheal Tieri???  I believe he came under some scrutiny as to his lineage as well.  

Yanno, I'm tired of apologizing for who I am and what I believe.  I didn't come here to argue with anyone.  Thinly veiled personal attacks intended to anger me are pointless.  

I came to help and to be helped.  

BTW....I didn't like you then and I don't care much for you now.  (Probably mutual)

[Guest]

Educated Indian.....

You wrote: "when was the last time any NDN anywhere said no nonNatives could wear NDN jewelry? Or buy NDN crafts?"  

Go back a few posts..... "All I can say in reply to this is that native ceremonies and cultural items belong to native people and in native communities."  

You wrote: "As it stands on your website..."

The exact wording on "my" front page reads:

"We of European (sometimes mixed) blood honor, share, and sometimes practice elements of  Native American, African and Asian-based traditions, too, recognizing common threads and common concerns."

Notice it says "We"   and "sometimes mixed"....There are NA's on these groups and they have every right to practice NA traditions, there are also "mixed-blood" NA's and non NA's who have been taught, (by recognized elders), and again have the right to practice.  The statement also includes African and Asian-based traditions.  Nowhere does it say that "I" practice NA traditions.  It also says "sometimes practice elements" - exactly, many of those elements often overlap.

"Viking ways"?  Yes, of course Iceland.  Anyone who has studied any part of the the culture (as I have) would know that.  But I have no Spiritual connection whatsoever with that particular pantheon of Gods/Goddessess.  

Where do you get the idea that I am "imitating NDN"? or that doing so means I am opposed to Christianity?  There is much wisdom in Christianity.  I just do not believe in it.  

You say: "Many NDN nations have been Christian for as long as five centuries, and it has become what IS traditional. "

Yes, traditions can change.  Yours AND mine.  

You wrote: "And if you or anyone else are influenced by Native ethics and philosophy, that's something I'm glad to see."

Thank you, that is basically, (within all the other protests and arguments, innuendoes and personal flames I seem to be attracting),  what I am trying to say.  

You wrote: "But doing any Native ceremony won't bring you any closer to an understanding of what your Viking ancestors believed."

Of course not.  I never said it would.  What I said was " But knowing about it, the why's and wherefor's of the elements of those ceremonies helps me to understand better my own connection to Spirit."  

[Barnaby_McEwan]

Mr. McEwan

My apologies for being too vague for you.  Quote " The invasion of the European lowlands by the Norwegians and again by the Spanish is why I am here."  

I should have said " The invasion of the European lowlands by the Norwegians and again by the Spanish is why I exist. "

Whatever. Every European, every person in the world, has violence in their ancestors' history if you go back an arbitrary, absurd length of time. You falsely implied that your ancestors were forced to flee to Canada because of these ancient conflicts.

You wrote: "That's advertising copy from a plant-sales website"  So what?  I didn't pass it off as my own, there is a link clearly posted.

You miss the point: you posted that as evidence of your research. You evidently hadn't done any research about the use of sweetgrass/holy-grass in Europe. The logical conclusion is that you rip off Indian religious practices because it 'feels right' and give spurious reasons when picked up on it, using the first thing you can find on the web as supporting evidence.

And....who is "Nick the anthropologist"?  I've never heard of anyone by that name.

He's a member of this forum too. If I remember rightly he uses the same handle here as he did on the old Yahoo list.

But I do remember Micheal Tieri??? I believe he came under some scrutiny as to his lineage as well. Yanno, I'm tired of apologizing for who I am and what I believe. I didn't come here to argue with anyone.  Thinly veiled personal attacks intended to anger me are pointless.

Rather than speculating about why I write what I write, perhaps you'd like to answer the questions I've asked you; and if you don't want arguments you really shouldn't reheat thinly-veiled personal attacks on a late and well-regarded member of this group.

BTW....I didn't like you then and I don't care much for you now.  (Probably mutual)

I'll cope. You liked me well enough a couple of years ago to ask (while pretending to be someone else) permission to reproduce on your MSN forum something I'd written. It was a review of this book:

Kehoe, Alice Beck. Shamans and Religion: An Anthropological Exercise in Critical Thinking. Prospect Heights, Illinois: Waveland Press. 2000. ISBN: 1-57766-162-1

Have you read it yet? I'm curious to know why you wanted to recommend, unread, a book which debunks an idea which seems very important to you, namely the idea that there is a worldwide phenomenon called 'shamanism'.

But before you write about that, I'd like to see you respond to Tricia, who so far you've ignored.

[AlaskaGrl]

Hello again,

This is all certainly interesting.

? I studied Wicca for about 5 years and have conducted Wiccan rituals. ? These items are still used from time to time as I host circles from a variety of paths and sometimes the "conductor" of the ritual simply consecrates these items to the use of that particular circle event. ?

How does the Indian aspects fit in to your beliefs or does it? I had thought perhaps you were Wiccan or Pagan.  But the Wicca is not an on going part of you?  Do you find you lean more one way than the others?   I have a difficult time understanding how one can be so spread out and mix so many things.  Would you say you do actual "magic?"  

I have hosted circles of Shamanic, Druidic, Egyptian, Asatruan, and even Buddhist traditions. ?

If you are "conducting" Circles (an incorrect term) do you consider yourself an HP?   Of these paths you mention not all use circles.   Curious, where did your training in all these things come from?   Who were your teachers?   Do you sometimes throw in Indian elements into your rituals?   I see you mention Egyptian ...  I hope you are staying clear of Ceremonial work.

I happen to have the largest basement area, as well as back yard for outdoor use, among my friends and we all believe in supporting each other even tho we all walk different paths.  

Size of property is actually meaningless...  sometimes do you find you walk paths/traditions from one month to the next ?  That's certainly different... a person usually sticks to one thing.  

You mention: "Suffimentun, It is being sold for 150.00 or so along "with instructions." ? All I can say to this is "holey crap!" ? I suppose a price like that will certainly keep it out of the hands of most Pagans! ?

My point was that some things should not be in the domain of the general populace including some pagans for just this reason.  I also include some books on magic in this category.  Lack of respect and knowledge.  There are many laws set down that should be followed but then i'm a bit stodgy it seems.

I have some things to do now to get ready for this Hurricane tomorrow/Saturday.  If anyone wants to follow it our local TV station is
http://www.nbc-2.com  I am near Fort Myers on the Gulf Coast.  I am fairly far inland so I don't think we will get flooding.  The usual worry here is downed lines, downed trees, and tornados associated with the Hurricane.

LindaR

[guest]

LindaR

I am pagan, however I no longer "practise" Wicca although I do respect it when I am asked to attend a Wiccan gathering.  

No, I do not consider myself an HP.  As to the circles (more correctly, I suppose, called gatherings - even tho most of the time we all end up forming a circle anyway),  I HOST them, I do not lead them.  My home is open to any sincere individual who needs the room.  I am not trained in any of the other paths I mentioned, but again, I respect them when attending.  That includes the Egyptian tradition gathering I attended...extremely interesting...and no, "high" ceremonial work was not included.  It never is in a "public" circle.  Only in small private rituals, with highly trained and knowledgeable practitioners.  

Magic?  Yes, of course.  As defined as a conscious direction of will to accomplish a goal.  But again, not within a "public" ritual.  

By size of property I simply meant that there is enough room for a large gathering to take place.  

No, I do not change paths/traditions from one month to another.  We, each, repect each others paths and can discuss the similarities and differences without it harming our friendship.   In fact, it strengthens our bonds.  We have a unity in "celebrating our differences"

No, I do not use strictly, cultural/religious elements of "Indian" traditions.  Some elements do overlap however.  Say for instance, honouring the directions.  That is not strictly an "Indian" tradition altho many do so.  To say I could not honour the directions because that is a "Indian" tradition would be silly.  If, however, I used a culturally specific method of honouring the directions, that would be wrong.  

No, I do not think you are stodgy on your opinions about the "laws" of magic.  Those "laws" exist for a reason.  "Fooling" with magic can be dangerous.  There are far too many books out there accessible to the gullible and the stupid.  

My best to you as far as this coming hurricane is concerned.... take care.

And BTW, I appreciate the way you have worded your questions....as questions and/or personal opinions, rather than attacking, twisting and mis-construing every word I write.

[guest]

Mr. McEwan

I saw no need to respond to Trisha.  She was making a statement of opinion to which she has a perfect right.  

Why I recommended "Shamans and Religion: An Anthropological Exercise in Critical Thinking" ?

Because I present material from all views of the topic.  It's not up to me to tell group members what they should or should not read/believe etc.  It is up to them to make their own choices.  

I don't see a lot of questions worthy of reponse.  Most of what you have posted are statements of your opinion.  

[TrishaRoseJacobs]

Go back a few posts..... "All I can say in reply to this is that native ceremonies and cultural items belong to native people and in native communities." ?  

 ?  

Okay, let's not be totally obtuse here. Certain things such as jewelry have always been made for trade.

As to your opinion and my opinion - everyone is of course entitled to their opinion. However, that does not make all opinions equal.