Middle aged White Women

[Epiphany]

I can be accurately described as a middle aged white woman, I'm in my 50s. I've been thinking on how many middle aged white women participate in cultural appropriation.

Maybe we've raised our kids and feel ready for the next stage in our lives. We want power, independence, transformation, freedom, inspiration - we want to make a difference in our world, we seek change, a new view - we want passion and fun and to feel good. We want to shake off negative of past and find positive. We want to feel connected to the natural world.

How can we authentically earn any of that by oppressing others?

Just because we can take something doesn't mean we should take it, or that it will ever be truly ours. Just because we want something doesn't mean we should steal it from others.

Lots of us follow various frauds. Those frauds know how to appeal to us. Some of us are even frauds ourselves, we play Indian and teach others how to do the same.

I encourage us all to keep reading through this forum. Keep reading and listening. Follow up on any books mentioned that look interesting.

We white middle aged women have lots of other things we can do to help us enjoy our lives. We can volunteer at food banks and soup kitchens. We can join birding, hiking, and other nature focus groups. We can help local kids learn to read. So much we can do - all without ripping anyone else off.

If we want to "find ourselves" we need to do so honestly. Why base our identity on something fake that harms others?

[Pono Aloha]

Thanks for this.  I would add to the list that non-ndns can volunteer or work to support native peoples who are suffering in this world, and can educate other MAWWs about cultural appropriation and steer them to books written by native authors.

[Epiphany]

Thanks for this. As another MAWW I would add to the list that we can volunteer or work to support native peoples who are suffering in this world. We can educate other MAWWs about cultural appropriation and steer them to books written by native authors.

I agree. We MAWWs need to actively educate ourselves and then hopefully pass the word on.

MAWWs need to be aware of cultural appropriation and disrespect issues. Also the warning signs of unsafe leaders and groups http://www.rickross.com/warningsigns.html plus info on how to detect consumer fraud.

[moreinfo]

another worthwhile site to research
http://www.enlightened-spirituality.org/Warning_signs_of_dysfunctional_cults.html

[amorYcohetes]

another worthwhile site to research
http://www.enlightened-spirituality.org/Warning_signs_of_dysfunctional_cults.html

Thanks for the link, moreinfo!  While I'm not sure what I think of the material on the rest of the website, I did really like that particular article you linked. 

The author himself points out that

Many present-day Christian denominations and sects display unwholesome cultic elements, as do certain circles within other major and minor religions. Unhealthy cult behavior can, for that matter, be found within political parties, business corporations, professional societies (e.g., medicine, psychiatry, academia), and other social groups.

In this way the analysis can apply not just to religious groups but also companies/organizations, self-help groups, activist groups, etc. (well, and obviously extremist hate groups and such, but that's already self-evident), which I find interesting.  And I see on that page and other places on his website, he links other anti-cult sites that this board refers people to as well.

An interesting read for anyone no matter their age/race/gender!

[Epiphany]

We middle aged white women aren't mothers or grandmothers of the world. We just aren't.

We may say we are Elders because of our age or because that is how we define ourselves - but that doesn't mean we are an Elder. Even if I belonged to a community that considered me an Elder (I don't) that doesn't mean I then get to lord my Elder status over everyone else in the world.

We might be in a life phase where we are all about personal freedom and liberation. But that doesn't mean we should freely rip other people off.

We might be survivors. We might have experienced abuse and deprivation. Those experiences don't give us the right to take from others.  Nor do they give us a free pass or magical understanding. If someone tells me that I don't understand and that I need to back off - I need to do just that.

As middle aged white women we may consider ourselves wise. But I believe strongly that we have to also keep in mind that we might just be full of b.s. Especially when it comes to NDN experiences and cultures.

As we seek ways to be "free" and "wild" we need to make absolutely sure that we aren't freely and wildly crossing boundaries and behaving as arrogant colonizers.

When I research fraudsters sometimes I end up feeling sickened by what I find. I get to take a break. The fact that I get to take a break is because of white privilege. I don't even ever have to think about white privilege - another example of white privilege.

We white middle aged women don't have any legit excuses for cultural appropriation.

The Do's and Don'ts of Being a Good Ally http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=2365.0

[Defend the Sacred]

Thank you.

A twitter post I just retweeted:

"Racism probably has this in common w/street harassment: You don't get any sense of how prevalent it is unless you're the target."

[Saskia]

Another MAWW here, European from mixed Scottish/Irish and N European ancestry.  There are lots of things about my ancestry that I don't like or agree with but they are my ancestors for better or worse.  The thing is, I see the same problems in other cultures, domestic abuse, alcoholism etc.  Humans are just humans the world over and whether we are warring over Catholicism/C of E or tribal beliefs they are blood feuds both.  Cultural differences aside, we are all of the Earth, all made of the same, recycled stuff so how do we find ways to drop the barriers and move forward?

Here in the UK, I have seen many strange things offered as shamanic teachings.   A 3 hour 'Ghost Dance'!!, Fairy psychopomping?! or how's about becoming a certified therapist for sending a part of a client's soul off for a holiday with the Fairies!  The thing is, if we have ill-informed people teaching more people after only 1 year's distance learning - how can anything change for the better?  Our western culture as it stands now, after 1500 years of often brutal Christianisation, is bereft of the necessary wisdom to take a responsible, spiritual track.  Sometimes, with the very best intentions, it's like the blind leading the blind.

Why is it that so many MAWW come to this new belief so late in life?  Around the world we see that 40 is magical age, like a 2nd rite of passage where, after the main child bearing age, Spirit often invite the healer within to surface.  Then at menopause another foundational change takes place.  It is no coincidence that MAWW are being invited by Spirit/Ancestors to deepen their beliefs - but what beliefs?

Here in the West, if we are going to learn and change the way we think/work/act, we need the guidance of more than just well meaning and open minded people.  We need a new paradigm of teaching and learning based on integrity, respect and honour.  Who can reach out to help us establish this?

Our own pagan/shamanic/nature based beliefs and cultures may be buried under centuries of repression but they are resurfacing.  What is not so easily uncovered is the framework within which they need to stand.

[Saskia]

Double post - sorry, please delete

[Defend the Sacred]

Saskia, You might want to read our threads on Core Shamanism and it's creator, Michael Harner. http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=236.0
We don't see "shamanism" as a universal phenomenon, or an appropriate term for anyone's ways but the specific Siberian culture that the term was stolen from. Harner is a cultural thief and is one of the main people to blame for white people playing NDN, even though they sometimes dress it up in the superficial, outer trappings of other cultures. Following that sort of stuff leads to the death of the real, diverse, Earth-honoring cultures of the world. Euros will not find their ancestors by playing NDN.

"Frameworks" don't have to be stolen from NDNs. They still exist, for those who are actually part of the cultures in question. I don't agree that a "new paradigm" is needed. That sounds rather nuage to me.

There's nothing new about midlife crises, about people growing older and starting to think more about matters spiritual. Women have always been the predominant gender in churches and other places where people gather to pray for their loved ones. It's the baby boomers who seem to think their (our) generation is somehow unique and having these experiences for the first time. Add white privilege to it and you have tons of embarrassing white women attempting to colonize ways they have no right to, or thinking that if they decorate their thefts in "universal" or Euro bling no one will notice the theft.

By the way, "First Nations" refers specifically to the Indigenous people of Canada. Or that's how First Nations people use it. Not all Indigenous people are "First Nations", and it's inaccurate and misleading to imply that white ancestors are also "First Nations". A group of white people banging fake Plains-style hand drums is not an Indigenous gathering, and it disrespects both the European ancestors and the real First Nations and Native American people.

Another MAWW here, European from mixed Scottish/Irish and N European ancestry.  There are lots of things about my ancestry that I don't like or agree with but they are my ancestors for better or worse.  The thing is, I see the same problems in other cultures, domestic abuse, alcoholism etc.  Humans are just humans the world over and whether we are warring over Catholicism/C of E or tribal beliefs they are blood feuds both.  Cultural differences aside, we are all of the Earth, all made of the same, recycled stuff so how do we find ways to drop the barriers and move forward?

Here in the UK, I have seen many strange things offered as shamanic teachings.   A 3 hour 'Ghost Dance'!!, Fairy psychopomping?! or how's about becoming a certified therapist for sending a part of a client's soul off for a holiday with the Fairies!  The thing is, if we have ill-informed people teaching more people after only 1 year's distance learning - how can anything change for the better?  Our western culture as it stands now, after 1500 years of often brutal Christianisation, is bereft of the necessary wisdom to take a responsible, spiritual track.  Sometimes, with the very best intentions, it's like the blind leading the blind.

Why is it that so many MAWW come to this new belief so late in life?  Around the world we see that 40 is magical age, like a 2nd rite of passage where, after the main child bearing age, Spirit often invite the healer within to surface.  Then at menopause another foundational change takes place.  It is no coincidence that MAWW are being invited by Spirit/Ancestors to deepen their beliefs - but what beliefs?

Here in the West, if we are going to learn and change the way we think/work/act, we need the guidance of more than just well meaning and open minded people.  We need a new paradigm of teaching and learning based on integrity, respect and honour.  Who can reach out to help us establish this?

Our own pagan/shamanic/nature based beliefs and cultures may be buried under centuries of repression but they are resurfacing.  What is not so easily uncovered is the framework within which they need to stand.

[Epiphany]

"Frameworks" don't have to be stolen from NDNs. They still exist, for those who are actually part of the cultures in question. I don't agree that a "new paradigm" is needed. That sounds rather nuage to me.

There's nothing new about midlife crises, about people growing older and starting to think more about matters spiritual. Women have always been the predominant gender in churches and other places where people gather to pray for their loved ones. It's the baby boomers who seem to think their (our) generation is somehow unique and having these experiences for the first time. Add white privilege to it and you have tons of embarrassing white women attempting to colonize ways they have no right to, or thinking that if they decorate their thefts in "universal" or Euro bling no one will notice the theft.

Been thinking about this further. I agree with Kathryn here.

I think some of us middle aged white women are susceptible to be lured by the promise of something new and shiny: "new paradigm". We believe we are going through special experiences, we want to be recognized for being special, we want to acquire specialness.  But we aren't special, actually what we are is susceptible. We're shopping in the cultural appropriation marketplace for the equivalent of cosmetics to make us feel special.

Con artists know how to prey on people who crave recognition and specialness.

Con artists know how to manipulate language, use "loaded language" to help suckers feel like they are part of an in-group that is special. I'm all for word play and expansion of language communication - but in con artist cases words are used to confuse and mislead. And lie.

If I as a middle aged white woman felt hollow and alone, the answer is not for me to grab hold of something that is not mine. If I'm ripping off other cultures and claiming that I'm special - I still haven't solved my own problems and I'm now engaged in harming others.

[critter - a white non-ndn person]

It's unfortunate that in mainstream societies women are considered less than, or beneath men. Religions that teach women are dirty, creators of sin and should never be worthy and that they should never hold a position over a man, or teach. Too many women left seeking for something or someone to tell them what they already know, but need reinforcement, need someone to corroborate what they already know, or suspect of their self, of their being, of being woman.

These spiritual holes, left empty in humans, most often in women as religions continue their denigration of women, only create confusion and a mass of lost peoples. It is sad to say the least. And unfortunately, there isn't anyone who can repair this. Stealing from another culture does nothing to fill these holes.. it's a lousy bandaid .. and the con is quick to scoop up his marks and make a good buck.

Trying to think that you know what something is or means or how something is actually done in a culture you've only read of in books or seen bastardized by the con, is only going to create more hurt, and more holes. The only way to fill the empty hole within with a spiritual essence you can truly live with, is to seek your own roots. IMO the hole needs to be filled from the inside.. not from the outside with these cons, workshops, books, and the fake ceremonies of cultural theft.

Of course, this is only my own opinion, and is not meant as a telling anyone what to do, but if someone were to ask me what middle aged white women should do..  this is what I'd say.

[Epiphany]

Many middle aged white women who claim they are "shamans" list a difficult childhood, experiences of being abused, and other related challenges as part of their bio.

Many now believe that their abuse history is evidence that they have gone through some sort of "shamanic" life initiation.

But the fact that they were abused does not give them the right to abuse others.

The way to stability, recovery, and healing does not include cultural appropriation.

Those of us who have had a challenging past are not unusual, special, or excused for bad behavior. If we get upset when told to back off, to stop with the rip off behavior - we need to stop blaming the messenger and look to ourselves.

Healthy recovery does not include messianic, self-righteous, narcissistic beliefs and behavior.

Expecting NDNs to some how save us, pretending to be NDNs as we search for fame and comfort, railing against NDNs for daring to tell us that we are behaving badly - none of this works. None of this is about community, cooperation, healing the planet, or any other causes we espouse.

Recovering from a difficult past is uncomfortable. Understanding our place in the history and current times of where we live is uncomfortable. That's just the way it is.

[milehighsalute]

i like it when middle age white women claim to practice medicine in tribes where women DONT practice medicine.....where its thier jobs to do cooking and cleaning....cracks me up when i here of a "pueblo medicine woman" or a "ute medicine woman"............haha try that crap down there and see how far it gets you

[Epiphany]

We white middle aged women need to stop giving frauds money. So many frauds prey on women, we look to be the main supporters of all this Nuage b.s.

It is fine for us to want to change our lives and become free, but we need to make sure we are not "getting free" by ripping other people and cultures off.