Lawrence Agecoutay aka KaNeeKaNeet

[kgirl_7]

I just came across this website http://ghostchild.com and from the outside it seemed like a pretty decent website dealing with indigenous issues except delving deeper I found this statement from a person claiming to be chief of the Anishnabe Nation:

"Clarification From Kaneekaneet
on 2005/9/4 1:35:29 (71 reads)

The following is the full text of a statement by Kaneekaneet:

September 3, 2005

To Those It May Concern;

I am Kitche O-Stew Kanee Kanagoshick Okimowcon KaneeKaneet. I am the Seventh Generation Traditional Inherent Head Chief of the Anishinabe Nations of the Great Turtle Island as my Grandfathers. I am a “Pipe Carrier??? I now possess “Four Sacred Pipes???. I am also the Head Chief of the League of Indian Nations of North America (Canada). I signed the membership cards of the league. I am further recognized by the United Indian Nations of the Great Turtle Island (United Nations).

I do not know how to speak my traditional language because my grandparents and parents were in residential school, but I am learning a little as each day passes through the patience of the elder pipe carriers. They say the language; I have to learn is the ceremonial Soto or High Soto.

As of my title, this is how they say I have to pronounce it. Kitche, means grand or great. O-Stew, means biggest, Kaneekanagoshick, means head, Okimowcon, means chief. KakaneKaneet, name I was born with, Kakaneet, means the leader, the one that always walks first, or tobacco, because the Traditional Indian, always uses the tobacco first in everything they do.

I am the son of Thunderbird Keeper [Gordon Johns Agecoutay] who was the son of [ Albert Johns Agecoutay] (Indian Name unknown at this time) who was the son of Okimowcon Antapay [Henry Johns Agecoutay] he received his title from his brother Okimowcon Muscowpetung who received his titled from Kitche O-Stew KaKaneekagoshik Okimowcon Chee-ee-Kuk (The Worthy One, the giver of all good), and identified by Queen Victoria as her brother in the letter of 1834 to King Chief of Canada. Reaffirming the bargain of 1665."....

You can read the full statement on the website.http://ghostchild.com/news+article.storyid+47.htm
I think he's been arrested in Canada for growing marijuana or possessing it or something. Anyway, his statement seems kinda...new-agey.

Anyway he has a website: http://anishinabe.org and if you click on the link "Adoption Program" and scroll down you can see that you can be adopted into the Anishinabe for a mere $20,500!!

Ok now that I look more at the site, the more I'm thinking this guy is a real fraud. I don't know if he's really Anishnaabe or not though.

[Scott Brainard]

Ghostchild.com seems to be rather benign, but the entry by "KaNeeKaNeet" and anishinabe.org appear to be more interested in pot smoking than native Anishinaabe traditions.

I've nothing against pot or its use in ceremony by those whose traditions include it...but I don't think marijuana (at least, the kind that does anything when you smoke it) existed anywhere within the traditional range of the Anishinaabeg until it was brought up there in post-Columbus times.

The adoption scheme and "investment fund" mentioned on anishinabe.org are also highly suspect.

[educatedindian]

Hi Scott. I agree they're not in the same class of usual frauds we look at. But there's all kinds of weirdness going on that's more at the fringe of the fringe of politics. Agecourtay reminds me of the would be Cherokee "Oukah", someone whose ancestor was made a chief/emperor/sovereign by the British and now is making all kinds of elbaroate claims. Gotta love it on one level though. Who else would have the gall to claim Canada is not a nation and just exists to be a servant for NDNs?

Agecourtay seems to mostly be a front man. The site's real owners. Don't those photos just inspire confidence? And the text just cries out for satire.
http://ghostchild.com/wfchannel+index.pagenum+8.htm
"40 year old disabled single father of two living in Winnipeg, Manitoba, Ogimowcon Nepa Ka Nee Pa Wit has, to put it mildly, lived a long hard life. At the age of six he was labelled retarded by doctors, at age 12 he was living on the streets, then he lived in several foster homes where we has terribly abused -- he eventually went back to the streets. When he was eighteen, Moon met a well-known psychologist that took him in and convinced him to go to Chedoke-Mcmaster's Cool School program; where he and 11 others were socially experimented on, and studied. Since then there has been an endless stream of social and political injustice tossed at him, from all levels of government."

And get this:
"everywhere he turns, he is abused and taken advantage of: Professors, Doctors, Social Workers, MP's, Chiropractors, the MMF, the AFN, disability groups, Lawyers....
The picture shown here, is of Moon holding a Pipe he carved a few years ago. Moon has been carving for over 20 years now....Many of the Pipes Moon has carved are treated as he has been. Many have been stolen, broken, and treated terribly. Moon told me to say here that he forgives those who were disrespectful."

Break out the violins. I suspect his pipes were mostly broken by people who were irritated by the guy.
And his partner. Cry me a river.
"Ahni has not had much life experience. He was an activist for several years, but stopped once he realized how counter-productive it was; that there had to be a better way to get things done. After this, many health problems arose from being malnourished and hormonally imbalanced. Ahni then turned to himself: to move forward from where his family, friends and all of society left him to emotionally, spiritually, and physically rot."

They both seem both incredibly naive and obsessed at the same time. Notice the causes they champion and how they go about it. Thinking Agecourtay being ticketed for growing pot is "High Treason"?

Their forums are something else, with names like moonchild. Nobody is named Bob or Mary.

A lot of the siet is also taken up with the cause of the "Moors". These are the same people the Nation of Islam started off as part of, the "Moorish Science" movement. It includes everyone from thre Nuwaubians and Washi taws to people within the militia movements.

[Ahniwanika]

Hello. I just thought if people are going to sit around and judge people and make all sorts of assumptions... and petty remarks about me... I would step in. First of all, the comment about the Moors:...Actually, I'll pass this on to the Moor that runs that forum and let him speak for himself.

Second, your comment about being Naive and obsessed:If you call two disabled and poor people who are doing everything they can with next to nothing to effect mutually beneficial lasting change in a meaningful way: naive and obssesed, then yes, I guess we are...

Next, I wrote that about page. I admit, I actually had no idea what to write, so I tried to represent who we are and what we've been through. Would you prefer a CV, or a list of accomplishments? Well, if the point was to brag and enfranchise ourselves, then maybe, but we are just people, not unlike you or anyone else, and yes we're kinda messed up. Modern civilization has this funny habit of doing that to people.

As for the Pipe comment. I'm going to assume you don't know much about Pipes, otherwise you would not speak about a Pipe or someone breaking them so lightly. Pipes are not created for you to mock and insult the Pipe or the one who brought it forth. The fact is the Pipes are broken because the People who ask for or need the Pipes are not taught the Ways of the Pipe.. they toss 'em in the back of the truck disrespecfully, let them just sit around, or get drunk and bring them into a ceremony, thus breaking the Trust the Pipe requires from us... and the Pipes were stolen and sold at an absurd price to someone else I might add, because the person had little respect for something as Sacred as the Truth, which is what Pipe represents.

As for all the stuff about Kaneekaneet, and the situation with the Marijuana, I do agree with some of what's been said here. For instance the get adopted thing. I've been asking for that to be removed for a long time... but Kaneekaneet did not do that, a "lawyer"  named Pat (don't know his last name) from toronto did that and a bunch of other silly things too, which I won't get into here, to which I add he's since left and that particular matter will be dealt with once this RCMP stuff is resolved.

But that he is a front? You weren't really clear about that, a front for what? (noting Kaneekaneet came to us last year, the site's been running for 3 years now...)

Yes, what Kaneekaneet says are "claims," but instead of assuming and categorizing, why don't you investigate first. I invite you to find a way to contact Wolverine (the elder that was involved in Gustafsen Lake)  he'd be more than willing to confirm these "claims." Actually we found out about two Months ago that shortly, Wolverine will be going to meet Kaneekanet to give him something from Chief Seattle at the Request of the Women from the West. Also, the reason Marijuana is being addressed, is because he and 25 of his family members were just arrested for marijuana posession. He is in jail as I write. See http://ghostchild.com/newbb+viewtopic.topic_id+100+forum+4.htm for more info.

As for Canada not being a Nation... I'll just say, Canada is not a legal Nation. It was founded fraudulently (It's a legal fact that is well known. If you do some heavy reading you will see it) on genocide, and maintained itself at the expense of our women and childern, complete with Legislation to confirm it (take a look at the library on the site)... It replaced the Sovereingty of Indigneous People with "Indian Soveriegnty," reducing us to having the authority of a municipality... it has literally switched the roles of Indigenous Nations on their Land to a Foreign Government on someone elses land. And with that in mind, we see what you are talking about educatedindian, that the Indigneous People are subordinate to Canada, yes?

Lastly, If I seem defensive or offended, it is because I am. Not at anyone or anything here though but the person I'm addressing this message to, educatedindian.  Nonetheless I respect your words just as anyone elses. I just ask that you please be more thurough before you start accusing and assuming... and if you want to actually serve the people with the work that you do here, as I've said to many others in the past, why don't you also take some time to address the Real Frauds that're around us. I mean, the Canadian Government participated in killing 50,000 Indigenous kids in Canada, they have a law that legalized sexually sterilizing women, and you're going to attack us?

Respecftully, There is nothing plastic about us. We are very much real.

Ahniwanika (John Schertow)
3-601 William Ave
Winnipeg, MB
R3A 0K1
Canada
1-204-775-6554  

[Willow Aliento]

G'Day everyone,
I am one of the members of Ghostchild, and have come here to see what you had to say.  I went and read the objectives of your site and I think I agree with all of them, and also cannot see how in principle Ghostchild is against them.

II live in Australia, and here in the Northern NSW area where I live there are some very very irritating Plastic Shamans and wild & colourful New Age freaks.  When Osho's cult fell down, they brought all the money and cultishness here.  There are people who will charge hundreds of dollars for a 'Native Wisdom" workshop -- I have been meaning to take a copy of the Lakota Declaration of war against cultural exploiters around to some of the really flagrant folks, those selling "dreamcatchers" for rearview mirrors which have been made in Taiwan type thing, but that might be too confrontational an approach.

But there are also plenty of Native Bundjalung People here too, plenty good Celts, good Native or part Native people from the US, Africa, Canada, South America and Asia, all quietly getting on with their authentic spiritual practices.  I feel you may be missing the folks at Ghostchild of this ilk.

One problem is that we ARE at the site attempting to express concepts which come out in English in ways which the New Age movement has made easy to despise.  But if you look behind the way things are said (and the current pot smoking thread which got your attention) you will see members are involved outside the site on real life issues such as anti-uranium mining campaigning, conservation and ecological restoration, water conservation, the Canadian Indian Residential School survivors campaign, alternatives to Casinos for sustainable tribal income on reservation lands, international human rights abuses, expansion of multinationals into new Tribal territories world-wide, education, health, housing and whether we should or should not be at war in Iraq (or anywhere else).  Also it is a place where people from different countries and cultures learn about each other, without being filtered by news editors or political agendas of our governments.

As to the whole "canada is a legal fiction", well it is.  Just as the "United Kingdom" is a fiction on every level.  it is a construct made by a process of battles and negotiations by people who had no clear and genuine jurisdiction over the people and country they drew lines on.  The Colonial side of the treaty bargains has not been adhered to, and furthermore there has been a systematic attempt to disempower and fragment Native tribes in order to have access to the natural resources on their land -- Black Hills of Dakota -- need I say more?

Further, if one studies the basis of British law, which is the foundation of Canada (or the Us or Australia), one disovers that it is also full of holes, and never arose from the Native culture of the Island we got it from.  have a read of the Magna carta some time, and remember that in 1066, the whole Welsh-Gaelic-Anglo-Saxon-Jutish-Danish-Celtic upper strata of British society was pretty much assassinated, and replaced with Normans (their ancestors were the tribe known as the Franks, a warlike patriarchal bunch, if you read the history anyway. I've just got a copy of Caesars conquest of gaul, so my opinion of the Normans might change after that, its based only on what I've learned so far).  The Brehon Laws of Ireland are also very much worth reading, it was the English who threw them out finally in the 1500s.  But the Brehon laws pre-dated Chrstianity, and go a long way toward explaining why the Irish are still so different to the English.

While I think it unlikely this academic discovery that Canada (and Australia) do not really exist in law will make our governments pack up their toys and go home, it is a liberating perspective from which to consider such topics as reconciliation between peoples, the restoration of native culture and religion, and also the changing of Western society's current ecologically destructive course for something a little less frightening and more likely to survive for seven generations and longer.

It also makes one aware that an unpleasant reality does hold within itself certain fundamental incongruities which will inevitably precipitate change.  A Philosophical fulcrum, if you like.

I hope to read more at your site of the different things you all think, as I do think I need to arm my mind better to do something about the plastics here, if only to know what to say more clearly.

Best wishes from Mummulgum NSW
Willow Aliento
(yes, that really is my real legal name.  And the one I work under, so I have to live by every word I post. (oh yes, and that's Mrs, lots of people seem to assume I'm a bloke.  I don't know why that is.)

[Wanbdi Winyan]

I'm still trying to figure out how he became a chief.  He claims heritity, but how can that be when we didn't have hereditary chiefs?  In which case do you realize how many hereditary chiefs have.....heck considering my Great (X5) Grandfather Chief Pisqua had 6 wives and 36 children, pretty much every band member would be able to claim they were a hereditary chief.  

The scary part of all of this is he's claiming to speak for all of us, and with the stuff he's spouting he's just playing right into the hands of rednecks.  By claiming that the laws don't apply on reserve because the government has not upheld the treaties is BS.  I keep thinking that two wrongs don't make a right.  When you listen to the Elders when you research the spirit and intent of the treaties, you know that because they were signed in the presence of the pipe they became a sacred covenent and the word of our ancestors is morally and spiritually binding.  We agreed to uphold the laws of the Queen and that is that, we cannot in good conscience break that, at least not without dishonoring those who have gone before.  

If he really was a chief he would not be doing these things, if he truely followed the teachings of our ancestors he wouldn't be bragging the way he is.  

I feel sorry for the people he has tricked, but I also feel sorry for him.  Why?  Because he believes what he says, that's the saddest thing of all.  

[DreamWalkerAwake]

Agecourtay reminds me of the would be Cherokee "Oukah", someone whose ancestor was made a chief/emperor/sovereign by the British and now is making all kinds of elbaroate claims.

Educated,
Do not read my words as if they were a sentence... but just as a clarification. And as a n offer to you.  Please, think on them.
I'm not an indian. I'm not trying to be it.
My name's DreamwalkerAwake, and this is the name that Okimowcon gived me, so this is my Name. It fits exactly with what I do, with what's my job, with what's my responsability in this world, with what I am.
Please, read my words because they are yours, not mine. It is just what you are ought to understand, so I'll say loud in your ears what your mouth is loud asking.
And remember that, as these images seen in a dream and these words listened in a dream, you can or cannot remember it for long.

A Chief is not made, nor ellected. He is chosen (by the forces he moves on). Then, People just recognize Him.
As a Wicasa Wakan is.
Do you really believes that man can choose what heavens are like to do? to Whom do you believe that a Chief faces when asks for a decission? to Whom faces a Wicasa Wakan?
Earth is given by small dots of Light. We are here just to care it.

My name's DreamWalkerAwake and I invite you to seat near our Fire to share, to learn from you, to learn from us. I'm not an Indian, I'm a Catalan. Would you like to visit us at  www.ghostchild.com? or at www.freecatalonia.ghostchild.com ? you'll be welcome. It depends on you to carry on the Light that was given to you as a Gift.

DreamWalkerAwake

[educatedindian]

John:
Really, what do you expect when your self description on your site is a paragraph begging for people to pity you? I don't generally introduce myself by asking others to feel sorry for me. The kind of people that will be attracted to you will be Nuagers who want a token show of being involved in causes, and that seems to be an awful lot of who makes up who comes to your forums.

I say none of this to be mean but to point out you need to make hard headed and much more practical choices if you want to get anything achieved and not simply make yourselves feel better. If you claim to be trying to help indigenous peoples achieve sovereignty, you're choosing so many ways guaranteed to make that noble goal HARDER. And I don't just mean your intros begging for pity. (Or your partner looking like a rather goofy Hindu guru in his photo.)

1) "Ghost child" is itself a term taken straight from the Nuage movement. In the US the main proponents of the ghost child bit are white wannabes trying to demand they be accepted into tribes. GC is mostly associated with Robert Franzone, an Italian American fraud from New Jersey who calls himself Ghostwolf and has pulled off more Nuage scams than just about any other fraud.

2) The whole association with the "Moors" will  discredit you in the eyes of almost anyone with critical thinking skills. So called Moorish Science has a) a long history of association with the Far Right Wing (with occasional pitches to those on the fringes of the political Left)
b) a long history of using crackpot pseudo history (including very ridiculous and offensive claims about Native oral traditions, such as claiming Cherokees were Muslims)
c) and a history of deep and intense racism, esp lately towards Natives. The Nuwaubians and Wash itaws are Black Supremacists, as well as dangerous cults and heavily armed Far Right militias. To them both you and I are "casino Indians". They claim Native people are "Chinese Olmecs", that the true Natives of the Americas are Africans while Natives are Blacks who made the mistake of intermarrying with Asians and whites and also collaborators with Evil Whites.

*This* is who you choose to devote much of your site to? What were you thinking?
http://www.rotten.com/library/religion/moorish_science_temple_of_america/
http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?aid=41
http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?aid=341

4) The Moors seem to have influenced a lot of dubious legal strategies your site promotes. Come on, do you seriously think arguing Canada is not a legal nation will make it shrivel up and go away? All that will do is make most people laugh. I certainly don't defend Canada's actions, but please, be practical. All your arguments on this will do is make most people who view them laugh when they think about Native sovereignty activists, and I think we both agree that's the last thing we want.

And as for the pipes, sorry, he may carve pretty pipes, but they are NOT sacred pipes. There are far too many Nuagers and other white wannabes out there already thinking they have a sacred pipe when really it's just a substitute for a cigarette filter. Pipes are not automatically sacred, they must *become* sacred, and your partner claiming he has the ability to do that is making a dubiousclaim  at best, or is being downright offensive and pretentious at worst. Those who damage them may break pretty objects, but they are not sacred objects by any means except his wishful thinking.

[educatedindian]

Willow:
I'm very glad to see you here. I'd be happy to have you here as a regular guest or contributor. We badly need someone in Australia who can keep us in touch with what's going on there. And you being willing to take on the issue of the plastics is something we cheer.

For me the main saving grace (almost the only one) is the section on your peoples struggles. As you say, some of the people there do good work outside of the site. But what about what's going on within it? An awful lot of Nuage pretensions and pseudo-philosophical ramblings, a whole huge section on the Moors and their pseudo history and their racism and Far Right fanaticism, and dubious legal arguments.

I don't find the "Canada is a fiction" argument liberating at all. It's a huge distraction, one likely to harm Native sovereignty, even turn it into a joke for most people. They certainly seem to have been influenced by the Moors. Here in the US the Moors go around declaring themelves (and by that I mean each individual person) to be a sovereign nation. They issue drivers licences and passports and phony legal documents, writs claiming one piece of nonsense after another, usually to try and get out of debt or con people out of money or intimidate the ones who disagree with people. All of this alienates people and recruits more anti Indian bigots. It sows confusion and harms just about every Indian cause out there.

If your or anyone else from ghostchild wants to work with us, I'm glad to see it. We're always happy to work with anyone with a good heart who can help. But I just don't see much value in most of the site as it is now.

[educatedindian]

DWA:
Sorry, but I won't call you by your Nuage/faux Indian name. First, it's obviously not an Indian name at all, it's one of those very silly Nuage imitations of an Indian name. It's not as silly as "Crystal Butterfly Rainbow Woman" but it's darn close, and even more pretentious. Just as important, he had no right to give you that name. Indian names aren't party favors.

Read Wanbdi's post for what's wrong with Agecourtay's claim to be a chief.

What you said...oh my. I'm trying hard not to laugh, but it's not easy.

"My name's DreamwalkerAwake....It fits exactly with what I do, with what's my job, with what's my responsability in this world, with what I am."

So do you have a brother named Sleepwalker Awake? Must be dangerous when he's driving...

"Please, read my words because they are yours, not mine."

There is noooooo way I'm taking any responsibility for the dribble you're spouting.

"It is just what you are ought to understand, so I'll say loud in your ears what your mouth is loud asking."

Hey, didn't your mama ever tell you shouting is rude?
 
"And remember that, as these images seen in a dream and these words listened in a dream, you can or cannot remember it for long."

No wonder you defend Agecourtay. That's some pwerful stuff you've been smoking.

"A Chief is not made, nor ellected. He is chosen (by the forces he moves on). Then, People just recognize Him."

That's reel, reel spirchul, but unfortunately dead wrong. Nobody except the British ever recognized Agecourtay's ancestor as a chief. And as best I can tell, nobody but some Nuage twinkies think Agecourtay is a chief now.

"Do you really believes that man can choose what heavens are like to do?"

"Heavens are like to do"?
I certainly think that man can choose to speak English like everyone else does, instead of doing a bad Lord of the Rings impression.

"to Whom do you believe that a Chief faces when asks for a decission? to Whom faces a Wicasa Wakan?"

Ohboy, more bad Tolkien-wannabe writing.
Cheer-Up-Sleepy-Dreamer, Agecourtay isn't facing much of anything, including reality.

"Earth is given by small dots of Light. We are here just to care it."

"Small dots of light"? OK, that's enough acid for you.

"My name's DreamWalkerAwake and I invite you to seat near our Fire to share, to learn from you, to learn from us."

I can find out about drug use at any rave, thanks.

"I'm not an Indian, I'm a Catalan."

Then quit trying to talk like Tolkien writing a Lone Ranger episode.

"It depends on you to carry on the Light that was given to you as a Gift."

Reel, reel spirchul of you.
You know, one use of a torch is to burn things down.

All you've done is convince me more than ever that ghostchild.com is made up of Nuagers wasting time.

[debbieredbear]

Yoda speak,Al, DWA speaks Yoda-speak.

As for being Catalan, I am sad that DWA would rather play Indian than be a Catalan. I have a friend from there. She shared some of her rich heritage with me. She told me of how Franco repressed their language and culture. And then DWA wants to play Indian rather than be a part of his/her own heritage.

[Willow Aliento]

Dear EducatedIndian,
that above which you have said to my cousin DreamWalkerAwake might pass as instructive teasing in some necks o the woods, but to my ears falls right into the category of stuff my dear Irish/Aboriginal grandma used to call rude.

Why should a Celtic and Spanish speaking Catalan use English like you expect?  How many languages can you write fluently and with impeccable grammar in?  My cousin writes fluently in three at least.  He is also a poet, which most Cultures respect.

While I thank you for welcoming me here above this, it disturbs me to hear how you address my friend and relative, and the long bow you draw to fire assumptions at the whole site we belong to.  ah well, "ya get that", as we say around here.  its part of what makes life entertaining -- diversity, discussion, debate and hopefully, at some stage, we'll even all manage some degree of tolerance of each other regardless of how we express our thoughts too.  

I'm not sure I'll be back, but I did get a lot out of what I had read here today.  At least I know when I find myself irritated by some grinning Byronian goon, there are worse bad flakes out there in the world likesome of the people you've posted about.  But Ghostchild, we are not like those folks.  noone makes a dime, and noone ever tried to.  we've got more urgent things to do than sit around being urugs all day.  the world's in a bit of a state, for example.

My best wishes to you all
Willow

[kgirl_7]

ok i started this thread, can i ask one question?

Why do people think Native American speak like that, all high and mighty, and have names like Laughing Spirit Man and SpiritWolf, and Crystal Dreamseeker? I got a regular ole name, as do all my Native friends, I'd tell you how they speak, except i don't know if this board allows curses hahaha.  And we also don't have "Messiah Syndrome", each one of us  is doing our own part in our own Native communities, but we don't think we're saviors or anything. Geez. This is too much anyway, lemme come back to this topic later. I need to clear my head.

[AlaskaGrl]

ok i started this thread, can i ask one question?

Why do people think Native American speak like that, all high and mighty, and have names like Laughing Spirit Man and SpiritWolf, and Crystal Dreamseeker? I got a regular ole name, as do all my Native friends, I'd tell you how they speak, except i don't know if this board allows curses hahaha. ? And we also don't have "Messiah Syndrome", each one of us ? is doing our own part in our own Native communities, but we don't think we're saviors or anything. Geez. This is too much anyway, lemme come back to this topic later. I need to clear my head.

You need to clear your head ? LOL ? I agree... None of my Indian friends speak like this either. ? What does an "Anishinabe Chief" and group want with joining the OBOD ? ?  ? Gosh, I read so much of this Tonto speak lately I start doing it and typing it! ?  ? >ack< ?  Someone slap me...

LindaR

[debbieredbear]

WHACK!! There, Linda, ya better now??