Lawrence Agecoutay aka KaNeeKaNeet

[DreamWalkerAwake]

There's something that I would like to ask you about Indigenous language,  since it is a subject that has been spoken in this board... it is a simple question - I suppose - but I would want your answer.

This is the question:  A Mohawk is going to attack a Hopi if a Hopi is using the Iroquian Language to explain something to an Algonquin?
Or, it is better to them to talk in "common" english?

And then I would like to ask you too what do you think about the native people using english names or spanish names... should Carlos Nakai refuse their spanish name? Is he permitted to use it? or should him ask permission to spanish gov.?

And, while waiting for your answers I would like to explain you something about catalan language: the catalan language has received a lot of influences, obviously the main is the latin of the roman empire, but before that we have had the influence of merovingian, celts, greeks and phoenician... until the second-third century, the celts were living at the Pyrenees, were catalonia was born. Our language has a lot of celt words, as Gaulois, Basque and Occitan. When the celts moved towards the british island, they influenced their language deeply, forming what we now call "english language".
Yes, it is the language you use in this board.
I just want to tell that we, the catalan people, are not annoyed because you use words of cataln origin, celtic origin, occitan or gaulois origin. You have our permission.  

I don't understand why you're not proud when someone use a word of one of our own languages to explain something.

[educatedindian]

It's not the use, it's the misuse that upsets people. Try understanding this:
http://users.pandora.be/gohiyuhi/nafps/articles/art04.htm

And we're still waiting for you to explain the incredibly racist things you said on ghostchild. "Redskinned wasichu"? In just two words, that's promoting hatred for both Indians and whites.

The fact that no one challenged him on his racist rants and religious bigotry says a lot about the low standards of ghostchild. Mild jokes and constructive criticism make ghostchildish people explode. Protecting people from spiritual exploiters gets you called a Nazi and McCarthyist.

But PC can rant about redkskins and Willow can rant about those "Commie Jews" and everybody there thinks that's just fine.

The terminal cluelessness of PC and some of the other twinkies on ghostchild doesn't surprise us, but I think it is making some of us wonder if we should even bother trying to get through to these very thick heads.

There are signs of hope in some of you once in awhile. That John admits his mistakes sometimes, that Willow helps us track some of the frauds, and that PC says he will, that tells us this hasn't been entirely a waste of time.

This thread has gotten long enough to be unwieldy. Anymore information on frauds in Australia, Catalan, etc, go ahead and start new threads.

[TrishaRoseJacobs]

And my name is Trisha Jacobs rather dutch/german sounding though it's neither. But I'm supposed to give it up because it doesn't suit someone's standard of Indian?

What I'm saying is - these are our names that our relatives give us. Based in our family traditions, history and culture, however much that culture and history has been influenced through conquest.

And it is a mockery of those traditions, that history and that culture for someone outside of our families and communities to try imitate it. It cheapens it.

I was in line to get on a Greyhound bus a few months ago when a woman in line behind me accosted a young ndn guy also waiting. She proudly explained how her family was decended from a Cherokee princess (I wanted to sink though the floor at this point in embarrassment) and how son had been given a gen-u-whine ndn name.  But she couldn't pronounce it so she decided they would just call him "little brother wolf."

So little respect for a culture she was trying to claim as her own.

[TrishaRoseJacobs]

Actually I'd like to keep the name I got too. The nicknames I had when I was little weren't all that flattering if truth be told.

Yeah, I know how it goes. We're all supposed to be down on our knees gratefull for whatever scrap of anything the invaders forced on us.

blech.  

[DreamWalkerAwake]

Trish, Sky, you're absolutely right.
This is the point were I wanted to go.
You have received the names that the dominant culture (by the guns) have forced you to "wear".
Also, your languages had been persecuted to the point that you cannot enter a cafe and ask for it in your ancestors language.
This is sad.
The same occurs in my homeland with catalan language and catalan name (educated, remember that Pere it is not french, but catalan, meaning Peter, and that Cabra is my surname meaning Cappra... no more mockering, please... is it educatedindian your name?).

I have posted these questions because you mock of my (bad)english while you are using too a stranger language. It is my opinion that you should ask to recover the normal and common use of your languages and names. Is it an indian name Russell Means or Big Foot? no, it is not, and this is sad (with absolutely ALL my respect to Russell Means and to the Chief Big Foot).

I agree too with educated and the posting at: http://users.pandora.be/gohiyuhi/nafps/articles/art04.htm    
My friend is peruvian native speaking fluid quechua and sometimes it is very difficult to translate directly phrases, concepts, ideas, feelings..  even words. Why, then, you mock of my bad english when I try to translate catalan to english? The construction of phrases and ideas is VERY VERY different. We use to talk using what we call "frases fetes" (done phrases) that has no meaning alone, by within the context.

It's just a matter of respect.

I will be happy the day when your native languages will be easy to listen in the street, in the U.S. news, in the schools...

Fortunately, you are still alive to recompose what the genocide has tried to end.

With respect,

[piya]

You know, it is so romantic, to have an Indian name, or so everyone who isnt ndn thinks.

Apart from my normal name, I was given my ndn name as a child.  My family used to call me littlewolf because I was always playing with the german shepherd dogs we used to have, so this was a nickname / middlename. I knew what my ndn name was and always assumed it meant littlewolf, never asked about it or anything.

I am now approaching 47 yrs young, and it was less than a couple of years ago, I was actually told what it meant.

Like Sky said, ya can be called anything, and believe me I was, and its nothing to do with Wolves, Eagles or the like.

Lets me say, when in our home, Miamowi, wants to make fun of me, she calls me it. You all want to know what it is, well, I sure aint sharing it on here.

I might start a new craze of twinkie names.

Piya

[debbieredbear]

I was told, when I was given my ndn name, that it was for ceremony and not to use in everyday. I was told that names have power, and bad people can misuse your name, if they know it. My husband's mom gave him his name, actually the name of his grandfather, and he uses it when he is doing his art. His people have a different belief. The redbear part od my nick, here, is a nickname from college. It is desvriptive to people who know me.

[vikinglady]

You know, it is so romantic, to have an Indian name, or so everyone who isnt ndn thinks.

I can´t understand why Nuagers over here make up so called Ndn names for themselves when traditional Swedish family names are nearly always connected to nature. If it is not a "son"-name like Andersson, you could be called Lake, Branch, Oak, Sea Twig, River, Mountain, Creek, Sea Islet....I could go on for ever. My maiden name translates "Forrest Grove".
(So thank God I married to "Banfield" and got at least half a nature-name...  )

With all these beautiful names, why not just enjoy our own cultural connection to Mother Earth instead of making up some kind of...hrm...Ndn names...  :-/  

Annika

[TrishaRoseJacobs]

No, I'm not sure you do get it DWA.

I'm not forced to call myself Trisha Rose. I want to call myself that. That's my Cherokee name. I was named after two of my grandmothers and I wouldn't change it for all the tea in china. Which given how much tea I drink and how much money I would save is saying something.

I speak my language. Badly. But I'm not tempted to call myself anything more romantic. 1. Theres nothing wrong with my name the way it is and 2. as has been pointed out, Cherokee names really aren't anything like "she runs on the moon with crystals" or "he soars through the wind like a mighty eagle" or any of that rubbish. When I was younger I was called in both CWY and English "frog girl," (CHD/DHD baby) something that would roughly equate to "she walks like a duck" and (because I'm so light compared to my dad) "came with the milk."

So please, don't tell me you get it because I really don't think that you do.

[DreamWalkerAwake]

So the same thing occurs in your homeland.  Why not start a grassroots movement among YOUR people to relearn/reclaim your culture?  

Yes, this is what I'm doing.

I'm not quite sure what you mean here.  I get the mocking part, but not the you are using too a stranger language.  I've been speaking fluent american since I was 4, when I moved from one grandparents home to the other.

Sorry, I did not refer to you...

There are many many nations that are recovering their language.  Most nations have immersion programs.

This is good. I'm glad to listen it.

Russell Means 'indian  name' is Russell Means.  Big Foot's name was Big Foot but in a dialect other than american.  Funny you should mention Big Foot.  Arvol Lookinghorse does a ride every year with young people retracing Big Foot's movements.  It's called...the Big Foot Ride.

Yes, I know what the Big Foot Ride is. Big Foot's name was Si Tanka .... if I well remember.

Playing indian is not going to gain my respect.  Playing with those who play indian is not going to gain my respect.

It is not too a way to gain my own.

I would not be happy.  How would I possibly converse with anyone in this forum aside from those who are Cherokee?  

You can use english just as a convenience language. In my homeland our language has been next to disappear because we used spanish (the imposed language). When a language it is not used, it is dead.

Well of course we're alive, and you know what?  Lots and lots of us are PISSED OFF.  We're pissed off at the government and it's policies and we're pissed of at those who STILL perpetuate genocide but in a much more touchy feely we are all related kinda way.  We are NOT all related.  We are over 500 unique Nations with over 500 languages and traditions.

Yes, I know. We want not to be related, but... "divide and conquer". It is their main tool. Economical, pollytical and military interests want us no diverse... but uniform.

There's still something more to do (in my opinion)... art and crafts are scattered in museums and private collections (yours, native american, and ours, catalan)... it is our duty to claim our property.
There's still another duty (in my opinion): the repatriation of the bodies of those of our Nation that had died in foreign countries...  if you're interested in you should know that two lakhota men are buried in Barcelona; they died (smallpox) in 1890 when the WildWestSDhow visited the city. I have informed of it to some Native Institutions. No one has showed interest (??).

[joe john]

thanks to all at this site who see the bullsh#T in that ghostchild site. I am just an ordinary ndn  from the area their grand poopa says he from. The are crazy at that site about him and i thank all of you people who are trying to set them straight. Thanks alot...

[DreamWalkerAwake]

mmmm... interesting, just Google "educatedindian" and you will learn who this guy is banned from native sites!

[educatedindian]

PC, you don't help your case by both lying and refusing to answer questions about your crap you've been spouting. "Banned"? LOL! I was kicked off of one site after Septmeber 11 because I stood up against the group owner saying all Muslims and Arabs should be mass murdered. And for that banning, I take pride.

Other than that, I haven't been banned anywhere, unless you're making it up like you did with Debbie supposedly "banned" from your site that she never even joined.

Actually, if you google "educatedindian", more than halfd of the sites are movie reviews on Amazon by a guy from INDIA.

Don't you look foolish, being caught in such an obvious lie that's so easy to check?

So come clean about your lying and about your racist crap, or else quit spamming our site. You're looking more and more like you're a habitual liar unable to tell fantasy from reality. And that's on top of being a bigoted hatemonger.

[TrishaRoseJacobs]

mmmm... interesting, just Google "educatedindian" and you will learn who this guy is banned from native sites!

I really think that if you only want to tell us all how we should think and act (and that seems to be case) and now make shit up about Al, you really should be going.

Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.

[David Green]

I have tried to read all the many pages to this topic but just could not wade through it all. The sarcasm and flippancy gets to be too much. Many of you seem to be on a feeding frenzy, here in this topic and on others, and perhaps your egos should be checked at the door.

i don't really care about this topic and so don't think I am here defending any of these people.

Also, perhaps you need to have all those that claim to be Indian include thier enrollment information, or perhaps a scanned copy of thier enrollment card.