Lucia Amaya / Devatma Amaya

[Litsehimmel]

Well, this is what I can add:

I found another newspaper article from which I remembered her. She and another artist (she started out as a painter) shared a house here with the object of becoming completely self sufficient. The other woman emigrated (or not) to Ireland to set up a similar project. The Dutch project apparently bombed, as she describes during an interview how she sold "her house and invested all the money in starting a project called The Gift".  This project has now spread to virtually every (!) province and is intended to help people who are in debt or unable to sustain themselves and their families. She obviously knows what it means being in debt and in financial trouble as I found her somewhere on a site stating that she "is unable to pay the bill as she and her 3 kids are on welfare".
In another interview she tells how she got so tired and desperate from being in financial trouble that she has now opted to "live within Nature". I found her on several websites with regard to "workshops" in nature, haven't found any prices yet. Will update when I do.

I have also found her (as of 2004 or so) involved in many charity events; i.e. auctioning off paintings, the money of which went to charity, and starting a paint class for street kids to name a few. Her final objective is "to save money and go home", by which she means Colombia, where she was born. She's very emotional about that.  She was adopted by a Dutch couple, haven't found any particulars on that yet but did find her on a school forum from which I gathered that she at least spent part of her primary school years in The Netherlands. So she has lived here basically most of her life. Got married, got kids, got divorced.

I'm not sure what happened to the money that was hauled in with help of LG, I'll look into that as well if I can. Lucia basically does what most *cough* enlightened people do here in The Netherlands: take a bit of this, take a bit of that, stir (not shake) and concoct their own personal "feel good medicine". They are completely unaware of 'misappropriation' or 'culture theft' and are actually shocked when pointed out that they're taking things which do not belong to them. The Dutch in particular have this 'share the wealth' attitude, and whole heartedly believe that they should be able to share other people's wealth as well. Don't think you can ever convince them otherwise, I'm afraid.

LH

[Autumn]

Thank you, Litsehimmel, for the information.

Wow!  This gets weirder and weirder!  It is easy to understand why she and KC have "bonded":  they are both artists; KC was supposedly abused as a child and Amaya supposedly suffered abuse; they both went into nature to escape and communicated with the animals and/or spirits; and they both have ex-husbands and children (wonder where they are now?).

I am not sure how you can go "into nature" and live like that.  Most land is owned by someone (either by a private owner or the government) and you just can't make a camp somewhere and move in (not for any length of time, I mean).

However, I am sure you can "follow your bliss" by sitting and meditating someplace where it is nice and quiet, but in order for you to survive for any length of time, it does take donations from others who have worked for a living, to be able to exist.  Does that make a chump of those of us who work for a living or what?

[Autumn]

I wonder who this woman in black is, is she KC's manager, or just the presenter for this specific event?

Back to that bowl of cash - wonder what would happen if a donor wanted a receipt? What if a donor wanted to see KC's books?

The woman in black is Jolanda Vuyk at Heart4Earth:  http://www.heart4earth.nl/jolanda-vuyk/  It was her organization that put on most of KC's Holland events in 2011/12 including the over two-hour Crystal Ceremony.

[Defend the Sacred]

The other woman emigrated (or not) to Ireland to set up a similar project.

I'd be interested in any information on who that is and what, if anything they've set up in Ireland. We have some Irish contacts, so it would be good to give them a heads up about it.

Lucia basically does what most *cough* enlightened people do here in The Netherlands: take a bit of this, take a bit of that, stir (not shake) and concoct their own personal "feel good medicine". They are completely unaware of 'misappropriation' or 'culture theft' and are actually shocked when pointed out that they're taking things which do not belong to them. The Dutch in particular have this 'share the wealth' attitude, and whole heartedly believe that they should be able to share other people's wealth as well. Don't think you can ever convince them otherwise, I'm afraid.

I've encountered English-speaking Euros who think "Culture Vulture" is a positive term, that it means you "respectfully" "appreciate" and "help preserve" other people's cultures by stealing from them. I try to tell them that here it is an insult, a name for someone who is misappropriating, stealing and causing offense and harm.  So far I don't think they get it. If they have their in-person European friends saying it's a good thing, they often don't care much what they hear from those of us in the US.

[Epiphany]

I wonder who this woman in black is, is she KC's manager, or just the presenter for this specific event?

Back to that bowl of cash - wonder what would happen if a donor wanted a receipt? What if a donor wanted to see KC's books?

The woman in black is Jolanda Vuyk at Heart4Earth:  http://www.heart4earth.nl/jolanda-vuyk/  It was her organization that put on most of KC's Holland events in 2011/12 including the over two-hour Crystal Ceremony.

Thanks Autumn, I wondered who she was, from photos she looked to be someone in charge. From reading her site now via google translate, looks like she also claims the usual: misunderstood child, connection with animals, visions, experiences the earth's suffering, trained by many masters.

Which just about fits Amaya's story too.

[Litsehimmel]

Well, I guess basically those who had a 'piece of their soul stolen' by abusive encounters or experiences in their youth are by far the most vulnerable with regard to 'seeking a purpose'. To have the whole 'wondering why' and 'why me' dilemma put at rest with a soothing 'you were chosen' (again ripped from the true shamanistic life preps) must be ointment to their souls. And to spend a little cash to have that miracle medicine applied must seem, well, worth the effort I guess.

Also, the Dutch are very 'Indian minded', presumably as a result from having read the books about Winnetou and Old Shatterhand by Karl May in their youths. My poor partner was the same, his house was filled with Indian statues and bull skulls and fake peace pipes etc. They were gone within a week after I moved in *smirk* I can be pretty darn rabid about that stuff. He finally did understand the reason why after I explained it's just pure theft.

Kiesha really has found her pot of gold at the end of the rainbow when she moved to the netherlands. No matter what is published here and no matter how many evidence one can present to show she's a con artist, most of the Dutch just won't listen.

Sad, really.

LH

[earthw7]

it is because they are needy and want to believe in something to make them feel better about themselves,
since everything in their own life is not right they look to other cultures for a quick fix.
When the answer is in looking within themselves facing their demon and healing you dont
need to steal another culture to feel better Oh wait stealing is wrong to began with!

[Autumn]

it is because they are needy and want to believe in something to make them feel better about themselves,
since everything in their own life is not right they look to other cultures for a quick fix.
When the answer is in looking within themselves facing their demon and healing you dont
need to steal another culture to feel better Oh wait stealing is wrong to began with!

I agree with you completely, Earth (you were writing your comment at the same time as me).

Well, I guess basically those who had a 'piece of their soul stolen' by abusive encounters or experiences in their youth are by far the most vulnerable with regard to 'seeking a purpose'. To have the whole 'wondering why' and 'why me' dilemma put at rest with a soothing 'you were chosen' (again ripped from the true shamanistic life preps) must be ointment to their souls. And to spend a little cash to have that miracle medicine applied must seem, well, worth the effort I guess.

Also, the Dutch are very 'Indian minded', presumably as a result from having read the books about Winnetou and Old Shatterhand by Karl May in their youths. My poor partner was the same, his house was filled with Indian statues and bull skulls and fake peace pipes etc. They were gone within a week after I moved in *smirk* I can be pretty darn rabid about that stuff. He finally did understand the reason why after I explained it's just pure theft.

Kiesha really has found her pot of gold at the end of the rainbow when she moved to the netherlands. No matter what is published here and no matter how many evidence one can present to show she's a con artist, most of the Dutch just won't listen.

Sad, really.

LH

Thanks, Litsehimmel.  Yes, very sad.  But wait, didn't Kiesha move to Holland to be close to her crystal?  At least that is what she said.

Although the Dutch may not listen to the truth, I still feel that it is important for us here on the forum to "connect the dots" so that a lot of truth is out there for those looking for it.  That may not be just the Dutch, but for anyone else throughout the world who may have a question about her and may be susceptible to falling into her trap.

Also, I agree with what you say about people (especially those who were abused) needing to feel that they have a purpose in life and that "being chosen" seems to give them that purpose.  But doesn't that go exactly against what they are preaching, about going "beyond ego".  Because "being chosen" is precisely ego-based (IMHO, of course, as is everything I write on this forum).

[earthw7]

just to state a fact
Native dont use crystals and today
we dont allow them around our ceremonies
whoever made this up did not take it from us

[Autumn]

I found two short videos of Lucia.  Unfortunately, they are in Dutch, so I don't know what they are saying.

http://jezalhetmaar.bnn.nl/zijn/video/c10ac4b3d42cf82609110a5f6de87ee6

http://jezalhetmaar.bnn.nl/zijn/video/89cbd60a52af0f52046a2dee46100d5b

[Litsehimmel]

The two videos basically describe Lucia's urge to live in the wild. And I got some more info on her youth:

- born into a native tribe in Colombia (she's apparently 100% indian, not Mayan though)
- found malnourished and starving at very young age, spent 9 years in orphanages, adopted by Dutch couple
- ran away from adoptive parents at 14, married at 18, has 2 children, divorced
- in 2011 selflessly donated kidney to virtually unkown woman and saved her life; checked the story, it's true; she did not receive any money for it

The artist friend she lived with for a while in 2007/2008 is Yby Potlatch,who did not go to Ireland after all. She is autistic, an artist, confused, but on several occassions has donated her complete (!) oeuvre either for free, or sold it to help the needy. This too is well documented. I'm starting to seriously think that both Lucia and Yby are the real deal and charlatan LG is just hitching along their ride in order to obtain a 'clean bill of health'. I.o.w. Lucia and Yby, albeit not your regular middle of the road type of woman, have their hearts in the right place and just don't see that they're being taken advantage of.
Unfortunately.

LH

[Autumn]

The two videos basically describe Lucia's urge to live in the wild. And I got some more info on her youth:

- born into a native tribe in Colombia (she's apparently 100% indian, not Mayan though)
- found malnourished and starving at very young age, spent 9 years in orphanages, adopted by Dutch couple
- ran away from adoptive parents at 14, married at 18, has 2 children, divorced
- in 2011 selflessly donated kidney to virtually unkown woman and saved her life; checked the story, it's true; she did not receive any money for it

The artist friend she lived with for a while in 2007/2008 is Yby Potlatch,who did not go to Ireland after all. She is autistic, an artist, confused, but on several occassions has donated her complete (!) oeuvre either for free, or sold it to help the needy. This too is well documented. I'm starting to seriously think that both Lucia and Yby are the real deal and charlatan LG is just hitching along their ride in order to obtain a 'clean bill of health'. I.o.w. Lucia and Yby, albeit not your regular middle of the road type of woman, have their hearts in the right place and just don't see that they're being taken advantage of.
Unfortunately.

LH

Thanks, LH.  I do remember reading on the video you sent previously for the 11/11/11 meditation that she was recovering from surgery because she had donated a kidney.  It is clear that she has many good intentions, but it is also a fact that she has appeared numerous times with LG (as a prop, apparently) and that she went through that ridiculous performance at the Crystal Ceremony where she was introduced as a Mayan and presented the supposed ancient, very special crystal to LG by falling to her feet and bowing low to LG.  She knows she is not a Mayan, LG knows she is not a Mayan, but there it is on video for all to see.  There has to be a limit somehow, somewhere, when one realizes the truth of a situation, wouldn't you think?  Of course, it is 2013 now and she may have realized her folly since her appearances with LG were in 2011 and 2012.  But the kidney donation was also in 2011, so she was straddling both sides of the fence even then.

It is all about personal responsibility and being accountable for our actions, no matter the intent.

[Defend the Sacred]

I'm starting to seriously think that both Lucia and Yby are the real deal and charlatan LG is just hitching along their ride in order to obtain a 'clean bill of health'. I.o.w. Lucia and Yby, albeit not your regular middle of the road type of woman, have their hearts in the right place and just don't see that they're being taken advantage of.

I hope you're kidding, here. They are lying and promoting a liar. They are in on the long con.

Skilled scammers know that occasional acts of generosity make some look the other way when they go back to scamming. Like the celebrity that arranges a multi-million dollar press opportunity so they can donate a few thousand to a charity. It's all about the image.

I can't fault them for doing some acts of generosity in the past. Good for them. But right now they are scamming and exploiting people, and propping up someone who is exploiting racist stereotypes of NDNs, and making money off those racist fantasies. This contributes to cultural genocide. So... I don't care if she only has one kidney. There are entire cultures at stake here, and that is more important than any one life.

[Litsehimmel]

Kathryn ...

I hope you're kidding, here. They are lying and promoting a liar. They are in on the long con.

Kidding not so much, just walking on the cautious side. I know from personal experience what havoc wrongful accusations can wreak, and just am not too quick on the draw, especially if I can't look a person in the eye. That's all. Having said that ... Adar o'r unlliw, ehedant i'r unlle. Or the (rough) translation from this Welsh saying: birds of a feather ...  Because you do have a strong point in as far as Lucia not having come out publically to denounce being a Mayan.

As for LG, well, I don't have any doubts about her being a charlatan. She obviously moved to were the pickings were richer, and it seems to work well for her. Identity theft seems to be a fad these days. Because that's what it is, pure and simple.

LH

[Autumn]

LH, I agree that it is always best to err on the side of caution, but this situation is a little too strange.  Like you say:  "Birds of a feather. . ."

I've been thinking about this, and I'm just not buying this "Buddhist nun" thing either.  I am pretty sure in order to become a Buddhist nun, you have to study for many, many years and live in a monastery under a teacher.  It is a highly disciplined procedure and takes years.  And this is what most of them look like.  http://www.buddhanet.net/ordination03.htm

You don't just go out into the woods, cut off your hair, wear a white robe and say "I'm a Buddhist nun!  I'm a Buddhist nun!"

Do you see a connection with LG saying:  "I'm a Native American shaman!  I'm a wisdom keeper!  I'm a member of the Sioux-Salish tribe"??