I am an admirer not exploiter of native spirituality

[Manicman]

My name is Noah and I am currently undergoing a prolonged, and pretty difficult kundalini awakening. I am also an admirer of Native American spiritual traditions, and have experienced a bit of it first hand in my awakening. Particularly some things that seem to have to do with the Lenni Lenape. I am European Jewish by blood, but I look like a wasp in person. How can I approach this subject with the respect it deserves, as a white person? Is it at all acceptable for me to be exploring this, given that I am white? I have legitimately had some of these spiritual forces show up in my awakening.

[Manicman]

I have also had experiences with one plastic shaman, which is part of what led me here.

[Epiphany]

My name is Noah and I am currently undergoing a prolonged, and pretty difficult kundalini awakening. I am also an admirer of Native American spiritual traditions, and have experienced a bit of it first hand in my awakening. Particularly some things that seem to have to do with the Lenni Lenape. I am European Jewish by blood, but I look like a wasp in person. How can I approach this subject with the respect it deserves, as a white person? Is it at all acceptable for me to be exploring this, given that I am white? I have legitimately had some of these spiritual forces show up in my awakening.

Noah, I have some ideas on this. I myself am white, an outsider, and belong to the "I don't know and that is okay" category of faith.

If you want to work in the kundalini yoga tradition, I suggest staying with that. Steering clear of new age and cult versions. I'd suggest learning Sanskrit, finding good teachers who are in a healthy community of practitioners.

If by "difficult kundalini awakening" you mean experiences of difficulty and challenges with mental health stability - I suggest you work on stabilizing your mental health. Make sure you know what is needed to keep yourself stable and practice that.

I know there is a trend to call mental health challenges "kundalini awakenings" but I wonder if that is at all helpful, I think ultimately it can confuse matters and even worsen them. I'm a fan of basic stability, first and foremost.

[Autumn]

My name is Noah and I am currently undergoing a prolonged, and pretty difficult kundalini awakening. I am also an admirer of Native American spiritual traditions, and have experienced a bit of it first hand in my awakening. Particularly some things that seem to have to do with the Lenni Lenape. I am European Jewish by blood, but I look like a wasp in person. How can I approach this subject with the respect it deserves, as a white person? Is it at all acceptable for me to be exploring this, given that I am white? I have legitimately had some of these spiritual forces show up in my awakening.

Noah, I have some ideas on this. I myself am white, an outsider, and belong to the "I don't know and that is okay" category of faith.

If you want to work in the kundalini yoga tradition, I suggest staying with that. Steering clear of new age and cult versions. I'd suggest learning Sanskrit, finding good teachers who are in a healthy community of practitioners.

If by "difficult kundalini awakening" you mean experiences of difficulty and challenges with mental health stability - I suggest you work on stabilizing your mental health. Make sure you know what is needed to keep yourself stable and practice that.

I know there is a trend to call mental health challenges "kundalini awakenings" but I wonder if that is at all helpful, I think ultimately it can confuse matters and even worsen them. I'm a fan of basic stability, first and foremost.

Great advice, Epiphany.  Stability is key. 

Manicman, you reported in late 2012 and early 2013 about your experiences with Luzia Krull, which was a disaster for you.  I am sorry that you are experiencing what you feel is a "kundalini awakening" because it sounds terribly painful.  Personally, I don't believe that life should be painful, but a total joy.  If your emotions are up and down so that you feel you are not stable, perhaps you have bipolar disease.  I am not a psychiatrist, but that is something you may want to look into. 

You also say that you have had spiritual forces which you identify as Lenni Lenape show up "first hand in your awakening".  Do you mean you are having visions or glimpses of past lives?  Your introduction seems to combine lots of different things, if I am reading it right:  Hindu spirituality (kundalini awakening), reincarnation and visions. 

As Epiphany said, stability is key.  Stick to one thing and explore it to the best of your ability.

[Defend the Sacred]

You can't learn NDN traditions on the Internet, and people who know their stuff will not trust an outsider. If the spirits had meant you to be part of an NDN spiritual way, you would have been born and/or raised NDN.  It can be hard for non-Natives to understand this, but it's necessary to understand that there are time-tested reasons for these boundaries and standards.

Posting publicly about your spiritual confusion and vulnerabilities is not a good thing to do. I strongly advise you to only confide in people you trust when it comes to these matters.  You may find that some pretendians or exploiters may contact you, looking to boost their egos, or line their wallets, or simply cause you more misery. Posting on NAFPS is not an exception to this. This is a public board, and along with all the principled, excellent people who participate here, there are also predators who read this board.

If you're having what you believe to be contact with spirits you believe to be Lenape... since you aren't an in-person, full member of that culture you simply don't have the context to know that that is what your experiences are, or even if your experiences are real contacts with spirits and not simply your imagination. I don't say this to be mean; it's just a fact of life when learning to handle spiritual work. 

If you read the main page of this site - newagefraud.org - you'll see, over and over, that NDN spiritual ways are communal - they are based in family, extended family, and the tightly-knit communities that are built on these relationships. Even Native people who have a right to their traditional ways do not do ceremonial work in isolation. All spiritual work that involves visions carries the danger of getting caught up in illusion, and functional communities know this. So often outsiders think they can take bits and pieces, and skip all the safety protocols;  people wind up crazy this way. 

I second what the others have said. Stay away from newagers. Find some reputable kundalini yoga teachers - South Asian  ones, if they'll have you, not white newagers. And keep in one tradition. Mixing traditions can drive even stable people crazy. So if you are experiencing instability and emotional difficulty that necessity to stay focused and simple is profoundly important.

I note you have "manic" in your screen name. Manic, or even hypomanic, states can make one over-confident. This can be very dangerous in spiritual work, even if there are not associated psychotic episodes. Some newagers will try to tell people with bipolar or related conditions that their condition is a spiritual gift. Some will even encourage folks to go off their meds. Don't listen to them. I've dealt with many, many people over the years who have mental illness but want to be ceremonial people. The two don't mix. I understand the need to make oneself feel better with these beliefs, but I think it's a cruel thing to do to people. I've seen so many amateur, "spiritual" therapists cause people a lot of misery this way. Get your moods under control. Pray. Take it slow.

[Manicman]

Ok I appreciate all the advise. The name Manicman comes from my brother having bad bipolar and me thinking alliteration is clever. I was a remarkably sane, stable kid growing up, until I blew open my kundalini in a rather stupid way, and yeah I am trying to grope towards some stability right now. And yes, it is kundalini, not a mental health issue. I had electrical spasms in my spine, as well as changes in my dream life, all kinds of stuff.
As for the cultural stuff, I don't know and am not trying to prod anywhere I am not welcome. However I will say that I grew up in Northern New Jersey and felt a spiritual connection to the land there. I also got pretty unhappy when my family moved, and I plan to move back as soon as I can.
I will also say that the word kundalini is Hindu, but the force is universal and does show up in a wide variety of different traditions.
I'm on a bumpy ride, but I think a fundamentally good one, though I appreciate the concern.

[Epiphany]

Ok I appreciate all the advise. The name Manicman comes from my brother having bad bipolar and me thinking alliteration is clever. I was a remarkably sane, stable kid growing up, until I blew open my kundalini in a rather stupid way, and yeah I am trying to grope towards some stability right now. And yes, it is kundalini, not a mental health issue. I had electrical spasms in my spine, as well as changes in my dream life, all kinds of stuff.
As for the cultural stuff, I don't know and am not trying to prod anywhere I am not welcome. However I will say that I grew up in Northern New Jersey and felt a spiritual connection to the land there. I also got pretty unhappy when my family moved, and I plan to move back as soon as I can.
I will also say that the word kundalini is Hindu, but the force is universal and does show up in a wide variety of different traditions.
I'm on a bumpy ride, but I think a fundamentally good one, though I appreciate the concern.

If I were in your shoes, I'd print out a copy of what Kathyrn posted. Very specific, very helpful information there.

it might be easy to gloss over what she is written, to think we already know all that, but I hope you go back and read it slowly, think about it, and keep it in mind.

I understand you are saying that you have symptoms that match your definition of kundalini. If I were in your shoes, hopefully I'd go in for a general physical check up, to make sure some of the symptoms/experiences don't have physical causes. Anyone you ever go to for help with your experiences should always make sure you've had a physical check up.

If I were in your shoes and wanted to believe that my experiences had to do with kundalini - I would find a reputable kundalini practioner, a traditional one who comes from and is in their own community. I would only do that.

If I didn't want to do that, I would do something else. Only one tradition, no new age, no mish mash of cultures and practices. If I did that I would no longer define my experiences as kundalini.

I will also say that the word kundalini is Hindu, but the force is universal and does show up in a wide variety of different traditions.

Noah, this part isn't true. I know the new age says it is true, but new age is nuage and just plain wrong.

I am trying to grope towards some stability right now.

Focus on this. Stability. Do the basic building blocks to regain stability in your life.

[Manicman]

Ok I will stay away from the Indian stuff having reread what Kathlyn said, but I do think I am getting k awakened as opposed to a mundane sort of illness.

[Epiphany]

Ok I will stay away from the Indian stuff having reread what Kathlyn said, but I do think I am getting k awakened as opposed to a mundane sort of illness.

  Good deal.

Now, you know that you could be going through both, right? You could be going through experiences that a traditional kundalini yoga teacher can validate and teach you about, while also going through physical and mental challenges that also need attention? 

Stability first. Basics first. Get a good check up, make sure something like diabetes, high blood pressure or anything else isn't causing some symptoms.  Screen those things out first.

If you honestly don't feel mentally stable, get help with that. Basic, good mental health help.

If someone who was Catholic told me that they were going through uncomfortable experiences that were very much like what saints and other devouted had described, I would advise the same thing. To get a good physical check up, then tend to basic mental stability, along with taking part in a healthy parish community life.

[Defend the Sacred]

I will also say that the word kundalini is Hindu, but the force is universal and does show up in a wide variety of different traditions.

As soon as people claim anything is "universal" it usually means there is a white, appropriative, salad-bar-spirituality mode of thought somewhere in the person's beliefs. That is how you will get hurt.

Few things are universal. As Sherman Alexie put it, "'Universal' means 'white people get it.' I don't want to be universal." 

Most earth-honoring cultures hold fire sacred; most hold the earth sacred and see the forces of nature as having significance. Everything beyond that is variable.

Recently I saw a well-meaning Irish-American try to express solidarity with NDN and Irish environmental activists by translating a fragment of an NDN prophecy that uses snake symbology into Gaeilge, and adding in a quote from an Irish folk song that mentions 'silver' or money. But what the snake means to that particular Native culture, in that particular story, is totally different from what it means in Gaelic cultures (and Ireland has no snakes). Then by not understanding what the Irish folk song is about (because he took it out of cultural context, because he's not part of the culture), he unintentionally posted an insult to our Creator Spirit and equated her with men of the ruling class in America, when actually she's about the rightful sovereignty of the Gaelic nations and the power of the sacred land. Ouch. Fail on all cultural fronts, and offensive to all the spirits. He did himself, and his attempted alliances, no favours with that.

Epiphany is right: you could have multiple things going on, and those who are confident spiritually are not afraid to rule out physical or psychiatric causes. It's only by ruling those things out that we can truly understand what we are going through.

Electrical shocks up the spine can also indicate pinched nerves, multiple sclerosis and/or spinal cord damage.

I wish you well, but you need to deprogram yourself from the newage point of view. I think you need to get humble and listen to the real tradition-bearers of the traditions you are interested in. Newagers like to force what they think is "kundalini awakening" and really mess themselves up. Traditional yogic cultures see it differently. Talk to them, or you're just in maya.

[Manicman]

I wouldn't say I have been programmed by the New Age stuff in the first place. Even when I was having the unpleasant experience with my first teacher, it was more like, "This woman is full of crap but I need the help," than me truly believing in what she is saying.
The reason that I subscribed to the belief that Kundalini is universal is that it well... happened to me without any former spiritual practice on my part. That said I am open to other points of view, and if any one is willing to suggest a teacher for me I would be very happy to look into it.

[critter - a white non-ndn person]

Well, have you been programmed by white America? Or even America in general. It's programmed that we need to have teachers.
And, we should even pay them for their time and service.

I don't believe any genuine teacher is out there looking for students, and none would charge a penny for what they don't know.

How do you guard against being fooled by a charismatic charlatan? What criteria do you apply to your search for an authentic teacher?
What does "teacher" mean to you? What does it mean?

If this kundalini happened spontaneously to you, then perhaps the teacher is within your own self.. perhaps instead of spending
time and energy looking outwards for someone to tell you this that or the other, perhaps just spend your time and energy
to keep calm, grounded, and looking inward.. meditate and don't worry about a teacher.

I just am not big on this whole teacher thing, because I know what the American mindset thinks in regards to "teacher".
Spirituality is not academic and it can't be "taught" by a teacher. Whatever the members of this or that culture learn,
as their cultural spirituality, they learn it as their way of life, not as a subject, not as something to learn. It just is, from
the moment they are born. Sure, they learn the steps and meanings and stories and whatever else there is to learn
about their culture and ceremony and beliefs, but it's not a teacher/student.. it's just growing up in that culture. NOT saying
different cultures don't have things they teach to their members.. or to those that are taking a different role in their
community, I'm just saying that it ISN'T like the American mindset of "teacher", "student", and "learning" ..

This doesn't mean I don't believe there are things we learn spiritually. But those things, and whatever force or spirit
there is, that teaches or shows, will do so. Trust that if or when you get your self stable and can command your own
mind, emotion and body that whatever is a next step will be there. IF there is a next step. There may not be. But who
cares? Life is now. Focus where you are now. Maybe there's no reason to have a 'teacher'. Maybe this whole idea of
finding a teacher is merely programmed idea, or a distraction so you are not doing your own work on your own person.

And.. in the general frame of alternative spirituality in America, there's this "idea" that somehow, because we had a
visual imagery experience that we should then go do this or that.. or seek out some culture or teacher or some such.

If you are stable and clear of mind and emotion then you know to not just take visual imagery at face value. Those
visions could be any number of things. No, you don't think in your mind or feel in your heart that it means, or is, this or
that.. you see it, and you continue on in your own life and if it means something, that will come clear in some time..
maybe 15 years later ..  or maybe never.  It doesn't matter.

Too many people, again, usually white Americans have some vision and think they have to go seek that, and find or live it.. wtf.
For all you know it was nothing but something from your memory when you were 1 month old. And if you were supposed
to live your life from some vision, then you would have been born into a place where that is.

People want too much to think they know.. or that someone else knows and can teach them. No one knows. No. One. 

My advice to people who have visions, is to just keep living their own lives. Live to be the best person you can and
don't worry about what imagery floats into your mind. Those things will be whatever they are, all you can do is continue
in a good way for good life for all.

[MattOKC]

I think when your first sentence leads with kundalini insights, it's a sign that you're not understanding Native spirituality after all, like you think you do. Kundalini, chakras, vibrations--none of that stuff is Native. It sounds foreign, alien, to Native people. It's like saying, "I love the Catholic religion! In fact, I've already been through THREE Mormon temple ceremonies!"

[earthw7]

i have agreed with everyone here as a native woman
our ways are always about family

[Manicman]

Actually what I really want more than a teacher is a confidant. I'm a highly unique person, and I know a handful of others on very different paths, but I haven't met or talked to anyone who shares much experience with my journey. I really just want someone I can talk to. Problem is the subject matter is pretty sensitive on both a personal and a cultural level.