A Truth Seeker

[A Truth Seeker]

Hello All,

Here is my introduction: I am not Native, but came to this forum looking to understand more about Native customs and ceremonies, and the distinctions of what is considered true and what is fraudulent. From what I've read on this forum in just a short time, it's eye-opening and disconcerting to see the extent and range of the fraud being conducted worldwide.

Please know I am a beginner with this topic and have had only one limited -- but, admittedly, confusing -- experience with Native ceremony.

Years before my experience, I studied Navajo culture in college, and that's the limit to my knowledge. I want to learn and understand more. I realize this will take time. Please be patient with me as I go through this process. But feel free to let me know if I've gone off track or unintentionally have said or asked something in a disrespectful manner. I want to learn and I realize that sometimes, in that journey, we make mistakes.

Thank you for letting me participate in this forum.

[earthw7]

why are u seeking our culture? What are you really looking for?
What is wrong in you life that you would go to another culture to save yourself?
What happens is people have a hard time facing themselves so instead of
looking within they look out.
You have everything inside of you to heal you dont need another culture to find yourself.

[Defend the Sacred]

"Seeker" - you say what you are not, but not what you are. Look to your own ancestors, to your roots. That's where you will find spirits who care about you and have work for you to do.

Please read the main page about how NDN spiritual ways are based in family, extended family, and the communities based on those strong bonds. It's not something to learn from books or the Internet. It's not something for non-NDNS to seek, find or try to adopt.

Find out who you are. You already know you're not NDN.

[A Truth Seeker]

earthw7 and Kathryn,

Both of you have offered good insights. Thank you for your reply. I'd like to take this opportunity to answer earthw7's questions because I don't think I explained myself very well in my intro.

why are u seeking our culture?
I came to this forum to learn about distinctions of what is considered true and what is fraudulent in Native ceremony. I recently participated in a ceremony because a friend of my mine encouraged me to attend and admittedly out of my own curiousity of your culture. We paid for the ceremony and there were elements to it that seemed confusing (and fraudulent to me in retrospect). But I have no basis of knowing what is genuine or not, because I have no frame of reference. This was the only resource that I can find.

What are you really looking for?
I am looking for help. I am an outsider. I was not born and raised in your culture. My friend is becoming very close to the people who conducted this ceremony. I just want to know if the people who conducted the ceremony are genuine or frauds. I don't want to damage anyone's reputation if they are genuine. But if they are frauds, I want my friend to be aware of that. If I found out later these people were frauds, I would not be happy if I did nothing to help my friend.

What is wrong in you life that you would go to another culture to save yourself?
I am not coming here to save myself, necessarily. I am coming because I'm concerned my friend may be getting involved with a group who are not who they say they are. I came for advice and to research the customs to find out the truth the best I can.

What happens is people have a hard time facing themselves so instead of
looking within they look out. You have everything inside of you to heal you dont need another culture to find yourself.
I agree with this statement and appreciate the two of you acknowledging this truth.  But again, the reason I came here is because I am concerned for a friend and need good facts and counsel. And in this process I don't want to disrespect anyone or anyone's culture -- or damage anyone's reputation either. If you were in my shoes and concerned that a friend may be becoming a victim of fraud, what would you do?

Thank you.

[earthw7]

we can help with defining what is real or what is fake
if have any questions you can message me

[Defend the Sacred]

We paid for the ceremony and there were elements to it that seemed confusing (and fraudulent to me in retrospect).

That's a big red flag right there. Authentic Native spiritual leaders do not charge for ceremony. We call it Pay to Pray and it's the mark of frauds, exploiters and sellouts.

My friend is becoming very close to the people who conducted this ceremony. I just want to know if the people who conducted the ceremony are genuine or frauds. I don't want to damage anyone's reputation if they are genuine. But if they are frauds, I want my friend to be aware of that. If I found out later these people were frauds, I would not be happy if I did nothing to help my friend.

Given what little you've said - that your friend is hooked up with someone who is selling ceremony to non-Natives - it sounds like this is probably a bad situation.

Have you gone to the main page and searched on these people's names? You can also search the forum on some of the things they've done or said. Since you are anonymous here, you can also ask about specific things that were done, either on the board or in private messages.

While traditional people don't discuss details of ceremony in public, there are some things that are well-known to be done or not done.  But again, if they're selling ceremonies, they're a fraud, an exploiter or a sellout. Those are not good people to be hooked up with.

[A Truth Seeker]

Thank you both for your help. It's much appreciated.

Earth W7: I just sent you a message with some more details. Kathryn: The group of people I mentioned are discussed on this site; however, nothing conclusive was determined. I will send you a message as well.