Author Topic: Choctaw Nation FL  (Read 9918 times)

Offline tecpaocelotl

  • Posts: 160
  • That one guy...
    • My blog
Choctaw Nation FL
« on: May 20, 2013, 08:34:10 pm »
I'll be honest, I don't know much on the Choctaw, but I gotten this email.

https://www.change.org/petitions/the-interior-board-of-indian-appeals-ibia-office-of-hearings-and-appeals-acknowledgement-and-federal-recognition-to-the-choctaw-nation-fl?utm_source=action_alert&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=24724&alert_id=fBDWYpxPgn_NOBugNUSxK

It's a petition for the government to acknowledge and Federal Recognition the Choctaw Nation in Florida.

Epiphany

  • Guest
Re: Choctaw Nation FL
« Reply #1 on: May 20, 2013, 10:04:07 pm »
Here's the press release about the final determination: http://www.bia.gov/cs/groups/xofa/documents/text/idc013604.pdf

 

Offline educatedindian

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 4772
Re: Choctaw Nation FL
« Reply #2 on: May 20, 2013, 11:48:04 pm »
Here's their website and their version of their history.
http://mnof.org/our-history/
Basically there's a lot of evidence that they could be Choctaw or NDN, but nothing I see which proves it.
One interesting thing is they claim to have over 400 members, but for their petition it dropped to only 77.

The BIA conclusions are that there's no evidence except some misunderstanding of a document of a single woman they CNF falsely misunderstood to be Choctaw.
--------
http://www.indianaffairs.gov/cs/groups/xofa/documents/text/idc013616.pdf
Only one document received from the petitioner in the comment period had any bearing on criterion 83.7(e): A
Dawes Commission Roll index entry for a Lucy Pope. The Department finds this evidence insufficient to document the
required descent for the petitioner under criterion 83.7(e) for the following reasons.

For the PF, the Department determined that most of the current group’s members descend from a Burton Hunter (b.ca. 1836–1842) and his wife Lucy (b.ca. 1844–1850) whose maiden name was not documented. The petitioner claimed Lucy’s last name was ‘‘Pope’’ and submitted for the PF two Federal census entries in an attempt to support its theory: An 1860 Federal census entry for an ‘‘L. Pope’’ of South Carolina and an 1870 Federal census entry for a ‘‘Lucy Pope’’ of Florida.

Evaluation presented in the PF demonstrates that the census entries pertained to two women, neither of whom could have been the wife of Burton Hunter. Further, the PF found no evidence in the record that Burton Hunter’s wife Lucy was a Pope or that either he or Lucy descended from a historical Choctaw Indian tribe or any other Indian tribe.

For the FD, the petitioner submitted a two-page index from an Internet Web site that listed a Lucy Pope among some Choctaw Indians whose names appeared on the 1898–1914 Dawes Commission Roll. The petitioner placed an asterisk next to the entry for Lucy Pope, Roll No. 8626. The Department believes the petitioner is using this annotation to advance a claim that the Dawes Commission, a Federal organization that Congress authorized in 1893, had enrolled one of its claimed ancestors as a member of the Choctaw Nation in Indian Territory (now Oklahoma).

The Department examined the evidence behind the Dawes Commission Roll index reference and found that theenrolled Choctaw Lucy Pope is different from Burton Hunter’s documented wife Lucy and different from both of the Pope women the petitioner claimed as
Burton Hunter’s wife. As explained in the PF, Burton Hunter’s wife Lucy was born around 1842 in Florida and died in 1907 in Florida. The ‘‘L. Pope’’ the petitioner claimed as Burton Hunter’s wife, citing the 1860 Federal census of South Carolina, was born between 1831
and 1833 in South Carolina, and the other ‘‘Lucy Pope’’ claimed as Burton Hunter’s wife, citing the 1870 Federal census of Florida, was born about 1832 in Florida. In contrast, the Dawes Commission enrollment record for a Lucy Pope, Roll No. 8626 on Census
Card #2933, submitted by the petitioner for the FD, shows that this Lucy Pope was born around 1878, her maiden
name was Sam, and she was married to a Pope. She appeared on the 1910 Federal Census as living with her family
in Pittsburg County, Oklahoma.

Therefore, this Lucy (Sam) Pope (b.1878–d.aft. 1910) is not the same person as any of the three women analyzed in
the PF as the wife of Burton Hunter: L. Pope (b. 1831–1833 SC), Lucy Pope (b. 1832 FL) or Lucy [—?—] Hunter (b. 1842.

Offline tecpaocelotl

  • Posts: 160
  • That one guy...
    • My blog
Re: Choctaw Nation FL
« Reply #3 on: May 21, 2013, 08:09:21 pm »
I messaged them on facebook on why the numbers are different. Here is their response:

Quote
Well the BIA removed the others from the list stating they did not provide proof of Indian ancestry. We have begged the differ since they too, live on federal land within the Choctaw Nation Indian country. They also are heirs to patent lands held by the BIA and BLM.

Offline tecpaocelotl

  • Posts: 160
  • That one guy...
    • My blog
Re: Choctaw Nation FL
« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2013, 08:04:45 am »
What  I gotten from someone posting a comment on my blog:

Quote
NEW AGE FRAUD POSTINGS
HALITO, FIRST OF ALL, WE ARE CHOCTAW PEOPLE ON THE CHIPOLA RIVER AND HOLD TITLE TO THESE LANDS FROM GENERATION TO GENERATION BY PROBATE ORDERS. THESE ARE RESTRICTED LAND(EXEMPT)AND HAVE NOT BEEN GIVEN TO ANY OTHERS.

WHAT YOU HAVE POSTED REGARDING THE CHOCTAW NATION IS DENIALS BY THE FRAUDULENT PROCESS THE BUREAU(a British : writing desk)OF INDIAN AFFAIRS STATED.

HOWEVER THIS IS NOT IN THE DOCUMENTS PROVIDED TO MAKE OUR STANDING CLAIM.

WE ARE STILL IN A COURT OF LAW. THAT AGENCY (THING)DECISION IS NOT FINAL NOR A REMEDY FOR CHOCTAW AMERICAN PEOPLE STATES.

IF YOU WANT TO DISCUSS THE CHOCTAW PEOPLES POINT OF DISGUST FEEL FREE TO CONTACT US AT FACEBOOK CHOCTAW BAY INDIAN TRIBE WEBSITE FOR THOROUGH INFORMATION OR EMAIL CHMIN2007@YAHOO.COM. WE ARE SERIOUS ABOUT WRONG DIS-INFORMATION BEING DISSEMINATED!!

Their facebook is here:

https://www.facebook.com/ChoctawIndianNation

First tip that they have wrong information is they're using an 1909 picture of African in Jaimaica and claiming it's an old pic of Choctaw picking sugar cane.

Source to debunk image:

http://atlantablackstar.com/2012/11/04/jamaicans-form-commission-to-investigate-slavery-reparations-from-britain/

http://sugar-chic.weebly.com/increasing-population-on-plantations.html

http://www.caribeaches.com/jamaica-history.html
« Last Edit: October 27, 2013, 08:32:00 am by tecpaocelotl »

Offline ShadowDancer

  • Posts: 91
Re: Choctaw Nation FL
« Reply #5 on: October 27, 2013, 05:18:57 pm »

Their facebook is here:

https://www.facebook.com/ChoctawIndianNation

First tip that they have wrong information is they're using an 1909 picture of African in Jaimaica and claiming it's an old pic of Choctaw picking sugar cane.

Source to debunk image:

http://atlantablackstar.com/2012/11/04/jamaicans-form-commission-to-investigate-slavery-reparations-from-britain/

http://sugar-chic.weebly.com/increasing-population-on-plantations.html

http://www.caribeaches.com/jamaica-history.html

So what you are saying is that the pic they have is not one of any of the tribe's members ancestors? Surely someone has photographs of their family during that time period they can use?  ::)

In scanning their photos of the very few images from the 19th century they have posted are not of Choctaw.  In what context T?ašú?ke Witkó/Crazy Horse is Choctaw I have no idea.  Nice photograph of him though.


Offline tecpaocelotl

  • Posts: 160
  • That one guy...
    • My blog
Re: Choctaw Nation FL
« Reply #6 on: October 28, 2013, 11:23:59 pm »
Looks like they don't allow me to post on the like page now after I asked them why they posted those image when obviously wrong.