Author Topic: Hello. Have questions about Muism  (Read 10600 times)

Offline cantownthemoon

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Hello. Have questions about Muism
« on: May 25, 2013, 01:52:39 pm »
Korean Muism or Mudangs. I did not grow up in this culture but have questions. It seems there are two veins of practices, the very materialistic and then the spiritual, at least from what I can gather. I am only able to guess this is something in my family history since many do not wish to discuss this topic whatsoever.  Anyone who knows of any resources outside of what you can read on the internet would be greatly appreciated.

Autumn

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Re: Hello. Have questions about Muism
« Reply #1 on: May 26, 2013, 05:24:15 pm »
Deleted by Autumn.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2013, 09:14:35 am by Autumn »

Offline Defend the Sacred

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Re: Hello. Have questions about Muism
« Reply #2 on: May 26, 2013, 09:43:37 pm »
With any culture that works with the spirits the general guideline is that if you can't find legit people in community, preferably your relatives, people who are living in their community, working for their community, and respected by their community, it's best to leave well enough alone. Books and the Internet are not the way to go for *any* tribal ways.

Offline catbus

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Re: Hello. Have questions about Muism
« Reply #3 on: June 08, 2013, 07:04:29 am »
Hey, you people quit messing with muism. Just don't even think about it. And members of NAFPS, please be careful to not point anyone to muism either. You aren't koreans and all white people will want is to steal Korean peoples cultural properties similar the way the newagers have done to mocking native traditions with their newage silliness.

As my relatives and older friends tell me, Muism has changed extremely even within the last generation. Many simply take it up as a more pagentry-based practiced, to preserve a culture property, and some even to just dupe people or for other reasons. That is ofcourse not to say that there arent still true mudang who work with the ancestor spirits, because there are.

And there are extremely many variations, because Muist lineages incorporate thousands of years of influences from various traditions of Dao, Buddhism, and traditional Korean old-style legends about the Celestial Kings, the traditions of the 'Han Bear Tribe' culture, and other beliefs about the Korean ancestors in general.

My mother and my aunt lived w/ a mudang part of their young lives, even dancing in rituals and helping out etc. My mother was told she called to become a mudang and apprentice as her 'spirit daughter'. However, my mother, having a sensible head on her shoulders, wanted to just live a normal life and have a family. The mudang claim that when you reject your calling, based on the lineage of teachings, various bad things can happen, from worse sickness, to deaths in the family, etc. I don't buy into that stuff though, because my mom is a happy person. (Though we have been bothered by some old spirits who have followed the family, and we are still accompanied by some of our deceased family members). Well, after I was born, there were many experiences, visions, and illness, things that were scary and undeniable for myself growing up. My parents said the calling had most likely passed to me. But myself also, have no interest to ever take up the tradition, so I would never try to become a mudang. It takes being reborn spiritually, and alot of crazy and intense stuff, such as possessions, channeling, etc to conduct kut and channel the ancestors, etc. I have no interest in that whatsoever, or to become any sort of 'shaman' or spiritual worker, but I will openly state there is a need to oppose it if any new ager attempts steal our ancestral traditions, or if there becomes white people who start seeking out mudang for shaman stuff.

Because of how my mother was raised, my family still honors the ancestors, and we keep alot of the good Muistic ideas in our lives, even though we arent 'Muists'. We do not bother with mudang or depend on their intepretations of cause and effect, but my parents used to visit mudang, and were in fact informed many prophetical things that later happened in life. But they also tell me, that nowadays, nobody needs a mudang truly. Some mudang just want you to think you need their help, but that is because they get paid for ceremonies and services. So the more ceremonies, the more problems, etc, the more job security. This is part of why Shamanism (Muism) is lower than Dao, Seon (Korean Zen), etc, as a path, and it is just a 'lower religion' from the perspectives of more sophisticated branches of Korean traditions. Mu-ism is more essential for some very serious problems though, but the customers will know what is a serious enough problem to pay for a ceremony and trust a Shaman's visionary understanding. If you ask the shamans, chances are they would just say what they can to get your faith, and money, if they could not truly see to the heart/root of whatever the issue.

However, I will ask that anyone here with a mind to steal our traditions, belittle them, americanize, or any other way taint Korean people's ancient and majestic inheritance with their white devil hands, just leave it alone. We don't need it. And aside from that, you are not going to find the true authentic mudang with websites. They are working with Korean people with legitimate Korean ancestors, or they are off in the hills honoring the San-Shin (Sacred mountain spirits), and the ancestor 'gods'. Not worrying about some devil westerner who wants to come ruin every things. Stay the hell out, devils.

It's bad enough what happens in Amerikkka with native pseudo-'shamanism'. Just leave Mu-ism alone, seriously. My people have fought for thousands of years to keep the ancient cultural traditions amidst colonial attacks constantly from all sides, so it's not time for some devils to come taint it.

This is what I can share about Muism. Korean traditions are vast, and there is endless information that I do not have, but I ask that westerners leave it alone becaus I can see what you will do to it. The same thing you do to every culture you put your filthy hands on.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2013, 09:06:34 am by catbus »

Offline catbus

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Re: Hello. Have questions about Muism
« Reply #4 on: June 08, 2013, 07:43:07 am »
Also, I warn those devils who intend to mess with the Korean ancestral traditions, or if they try to use 'Muism' as your loopholes into becoming shamans, you might just get burned for it. The ancestors of Korean traditions do not like disrespect.

Once when my aunt was a child, she ate the ceremonial food before she was supposed to during the kut. The ancestor spirits were supposed to be feasting on the food at the time, and the mudang told my mom and her, do not eat the food when the spirits are supposed to be feasting first.

Well, my aunt, a young girl at the time, says 'ha! old folks superstition! those rice cakes look good!' *eats some*

And then the next thing she knew, she recieved the curse. Her legs swelled up so much that she could not walk for exactly one year. She was stuck in bed for exactly one year, as the spirits punished her to teach her not to mock them in ceremony. *

This is not a made up story. I do not come from a superstitious family. Both my mother and my aunt still remember this very clearly. And I can only hope that even worse curses will come to any new ager devils with a mind to steal and offend ancient Korean cultural traditions or disrespect everything that the ancestors fought off Chinese and Jap colonialists to have the right to maintain. Koreans had to fight for every aspect of cultural expressions, to keep the language, to keep the cultural traditions, to even be allowed to create an indigenous style ('jango') drum. White people will never understand that legacy, that history of struggle and pride, because they do not feel what the ancestors have experienced, it is a feeling they will never vibrate with. So stay away devils, and quit stealing everybody else's culture. Go sit somewhere in Europe with your faked-out, wannabe-pagan reconstructionistic 'wiccan' traditions or whatever. Or go sit on your yoga mat and listen to you new age gurus. Stay away from Muism because you are only going to end up paying one of the senesationalistic fakes or trying to steal the traditions and misrepresent them. It is sad enough that there are often modern efforts by some Korean themselves, to belittle it as a touristy or pageantry tradition without much real spiritual siginificance.

*they also once witnessed an incident when a boy who disrespected the ceremony, had his neck kink, his head looking sideways, and being unable to put his head upright for a period of time. Korean traditions are very ancient and powerful, and the spirits are very real. Please respect them.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2013, 08:57:43 am by catbus »

Offline Defend the Sacred

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Re: Hello. Have questions about Muism
« Reply #5 on: June 08, 2013, 10:50:44 pm »
Hey, you people quit messing with muism. Just don't even think about it. And members of NAFPS, please be careful to not point anyone to muism either. You aren't koreans and all white people will want is to steal Korean peoples cultural properties similar the way the newagers have done to mocking native traditions with their newage silliness.

It's bad enough what happens in Amerikkka with native pseudo-'shamanism'. Just leave Mu-ism alone, seriously. My people have fought for thousands of years to keep the ancient cultural traditions amidst colonial attacks constantly from all sides, so it's not time for some devils to come taint it.

This is what I can share about Muism. Korean traditions are vast, and there is endless information that I do not have, but I ask that westerners leave it alone becaus I can see what you will do to it. The same thing you do to every culture you put your filthy hands on.

Agreed, and thank you for saying it. If someone is part of a Korean community that has those ways, they already know who to talk to. If they aren't, they shouldn't be asking on the Internet. They should leave it alone.

Offline catbus

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Re: Hello. Have questions about Muism
« Reply #6 on: June 09, 2013, 12:45:46 am »

Agreed, and thank you for saying it. If someone is part of a Korean community that has those ways, they already know who to talk to. If they aren't, they shouldn't be asking on the Internet. They should leave it alone.

Exactly. To seek out a good shaman, is something one is best off to find through word of mouth by their family/spiritual/or local community. That also goes for finding out whether they really need to be messing around with looking for a shaman in the first place! And really, if they do not have that sense of community, I am personally of the opinion that they are really too far divorced from social/cultural context to truly understand the ancient Korean traditions, especially ones in which honoring the ancestors and the Sacred Korean mountain-spirits are so central.

I will also point out that, just because some modern mudang are building websites on Korean internet, and some cater to tourist-y financial schemes, it does not mean these are shamans who are truly working with Spirits and honoring the ancestors. There is alot of vanity and illusion within the world of spirituality in general. I feel that most the western newagers who think they need a shaman, really just probably have other problems.

With any culture that works with the spirits the general guideline is that if you can't find legit people in community, preferably your relatives, people who are living in their community, working for their community, and respected by their community, it's best to leave well enough alone. Books and the Internet are not the way to go for *any* tribal ways.

Worded perfectly.

I am afraid that more westerners are going to be turning to the real 'Shamanic' traditions of Asia such as Mu, as their way 'in' without having folks like NAFPS after them. But that is a flawed plan, because they do not understand how important context is. The contextual background and understanding comes from one's culture, community, or family upbringing and values, and even from one's spiritual and ancestral experiences. And I just don't believe anyone can get that through a book, documentary, etc.

I am not saying that one with a legitimate spiritual problem should not seek out a legitimate Spiritual helper, but there are sensible and non-sensible approaches to go about doing it. That is a large part of why groups like NAFPS need to exist. I have a few times met some new agers who think they needed intervention from 'some sort of shaman'. Well, I will warn anyone else in such a situation, that even amongst authentic traditions, some folks are more real than others. This includes people who carry the titles of traditional 'Shaman', traditional 'Master', etc. Some are much more sincere and authentic than others in the work that they do, the path that they live, and the teachings they truly represent. 

« Last Edit: June 09, 2013, 07:08:27 am by catbus »

Autumn

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Re: Hello. Have questions about Muism
« Reply #7 on: June 09, 2013, 09:32:31 am »
Thanks for all the valuable information, Catbus.  I have deleted my prior post because I don't want to be responsible for encouraging anyone to take up Muism.  You are right and I didn't realize how right you were until you posted.  It should be left alone unless you come from that culture.

Offline Defend the Sacred

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Re: Hello. Have questions about Muism
« Reply #8 on: June 09, 2013, 05:51:11 pm »
Thank you, Autumn. I think that was for the best.