Author Topic: "Solas Sa Dorchadas," Shamanism-NI, shameon in Northern Ireland  (Read 21892 times)

Solas Sa Dorchadas

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A little about me

I am Irish born and raised and currently living on the island of Ireland, my parents, grandparents and ancestors are Celtic through and through both Irish and Scottish. I live in the North of Ireland and I have lived through what we call here the "troubles" the shooting and killings in the name of religion and politics.  I am the proud father of 4 grown children and been married for nearly 30 years years to a wonderful lady. And lastly I am a therapist/counselor and a college lecturer for nearly 20 years. It was a good and rewarding career, that I had to leave as my wee wife is now ill and confined to bed and has been these last 8 years.

All my life I have have felt the keen loss of my culture, its wisdom and practices at the hand of christianity of one brand or another, and witnessed tribalism of the worst kind in Ireland, divided along the lines of religion and politics. I was for a time heavily involved christian ministry, but as I studied the bible, in Greek and Hebrew and in it's  cultural and historical context, I left that faith and spirituality (won't bore you with the reasons, your probably more than familiar with them  :) ) because of  what I discovered there.

I am now exploring the faith and spirituality of "my" ancestors of my country and continent, which is difficult to do, as 2000 years of christianity does not leave much in it's path. But I and many others are doing the best we can, placing what we can together and finding what fits and what was meant.

I look to the commonality of "Native Wisdom" of those peoples across entire globe who have managed to protect what my ancestors could not, to give me some sort of guide. Because even though there are huge differences, there are some common grounds. Thankfully truth is outside all patterns, opinions and dogma and geography.

Thank you for this web page and the work you do.....even though Ireland is am old fashioned and at times parochial country. Money and Shamanism has finally come to my part of the world, and I am disgusted. Thank you for combining protecting Native wisdom and culture and yet trying to protect those seeking another way from the con artists.

As a working class man who struggled to pay for and get his education, I have never forgotten those roots. I offered free counseling to those who could not afford it, and often times they were the ones who needed it most and could not get access to that care.  Depression, suicide and deprivation are rife within the community, 30 years of terrorism will do that. So you can appreciate, that it offends me slightly when I see people making money off people who clearly cannot afford it or seeing people "robbed".

So here we are with people offering training courses and retreats on shamanism (I've not problem with the word shamanism, I know some do) costing hundreds and thousands of pounds/euros. And to be frank, it angers me.....for there are a lot of spiritually disillusioned and hungry people out there..who are paying these ridiculous sums and those who are clearly cannot afford it putting themselves in debt to go and get this training. There is also deep anger with the revelations of the child sexual abuse cases and revelations caused by the "church" and the "troubles" have people in my country looking elsewhere for meaning.

Among other things in my life, your page and it contributors have encouraged me to refer others to this web page and surprisingly motivated me create and deliver a course on native wisdom and shamanism and share my understanding, studies and journey. It's a free course (I receive nothing, in fact it costs me money  :) not much thankfully and like many of your contributors I believe it is morally wrong to charge for something like this) centered around our own culture and ways of our own country and continent, our heritage may be fractured and broken in so many ways but it's still rich and diverse. And it requires a lot of work putting it together into a philosophy (not religion) that helps people.

It is my hope that this course will inspire others to respect and stop making money off what was freely given by "our" ancestors and also to stop making money off what has not been freely given from other native cultures. Never mind that those who teach and charge for this have never had even enough respect to seek permission to share it. Hopefully it will put these people will be out of business and put them "properly" into the business of help others

I am glad that you stipulate that this is not a forum for hate, wise words and protective words, my only concern is, that while I understand the pain, anger, loss and grief that many native people have experienced at the hand of colonial powers across the world (as any objective student of history could not ignore the lies, broken promises and disrespect and theft it's clearly printed).... some posts that I have read here and at other places have been almost venomous, and that is dangerous and destructive.... take it from someone who have lived through like I said the worst form of "tribalism" , it not only damages the person, but families, our communities but the future too.

I hope this ..my introduction to your group will be viewed with the heart that it has been shared with.

Again thank you for your work and especially the time that has clearly been put into this group and forum, time I am sure spent away from loved ones and better things that you could have been doing, but a time you chose to share with strangers in a effort to bring balance and social justice. I appreciate it

Respect and honor to you all ..........solas











Offline Defend the Sacred

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Re: A Thank you
« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2014, 04:17:32 pm »
Fáilte a Sholas, agus go raibh maith agaibh for your kind words about our forum.

Yes, it's very important to preserve and protect the ways of our own ancestors, without appropriating from other cultures or misrepresenting nontraditional elements as traditional.

I am unsure what you mean by this statement:

Among other things in my life, your page and it contributors have encouraged me to refer others to this web page and surprisingly motivated me create and deliver a course on native wisdom and shamanism and share my understanding, studies and journey.

Do you mean native Irish traditions? I must have misunderstood because neither Native American nor native Irish traditions are called "shamanism," nor do they much resemble the real, Siberian variety, or the newage misappropriations that use that term.

Are you the same Solas Sa Dorchadas with this pinterest page? https://www.pinterest.com/BrujaDeLaIsla/solas-sa-dorchadas/

I look to the commonality of "Native Wisdom" of those peoples across entire globe who have managed to protect what my ancestors could not, to give me some sort of guide. Because even though there are huge differences, there are some common grounds. Thankfully truth is outside all patterns, opinions and dogma and geography.

All cultures have some common grounds; we're all humans with human concerns. But the ceremonies and beliefs are culture-specific. What the Irish ancestors lost is not the same as what the Native Americans have.  What kind of in-person experience have you had with Native American ways that you feel you can make these comparisons and offer courses on these things?

Slán,

Kathryn

Solas Sa Dorchadas

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Re: A Thank you
« Reply #2 on: April 19, 2014, 02:44:09 am »
Hi Kathryn,
Yes, I agree it is important to preserve and protect your ancestral ways and wisdom. For us here Ireland, being part of Europe, the impact of christianity and it missionaries was felt very early and much longer. So I think we are lucky to have saved what we have in Ireland and Europe as a whole.

In my opinion any appropriating/taking using traditions approaches is theft ...it is a fake. Correct me if I am wrong Indian spirituality and wisdom is not open to individuals it can only be "claimed" if you are born of the Great Nations themselves. And regrettably  I suppose that as long as people feel that they can take they will, they take what's is sacred and unique, individual and tribe with no understanding that they are making it profane.. I would be offended too.

And yes I am very aware of my Irish tradition of Druids, Bards and our drum Bodhran, and the differences between the celtic traditions and the Tungusic.
Now I find myself a little confused Kathryn...what started off as a gracious welcome is coming across slightly combative and querying. I do not wish to be combative myself  or give offense and if I am wrong then please accept my apologies, if I am right then please stop.

No, I am not that person, that you refer to in the pin interest, which I had look up (and there I thought I had a unique name, just goes to show that there is nothing new under the sun), and obviously you did as well. Let me be clear I am not a newager, or of that fluffy bunny airy fairy mindset, and I take great exception to being questioned as one. I can understand that dealing with that kind of nonsense can make you a tad suspicious and jaded but it did come across rude.

Where I come from and I'm sure you too, it's considered rude to run a background check on people no matter how superficial. I worked as a therapist in Northern Ireland as part of the security forces here. I like my privacy and I give and expect respect, I live in a country where terrorists shoot you or place bombs under your car if they find out if you work with or for the police. And as you might imagine, to go from expecting a warm welcome and then to get to the meat of your reply!! ....well that makes me suspicious ...respect me, my privacy, you don't know me and to question me like that! Is something that I am not accustomed to or should need to be. I believe please the phrase treat me as innocent until proven guilty is appropriate...I joined this forum because  I admire the work that you do and wanted to pass on your work and message to my students, not to be quoted or questioned like this Kathryn. So truth be told I am a bit disappointed I hope that others will be more friendly and more respectful.


I too am also aware that many belief systems are culture specific and that many peoples choose to not to share their wisdom and culture, the African Dagara tribe springs to mind as one example. For clarity's sake I have no intention of teaching the ways of the Native American Nations ....I will share the sense of outrage that these nations feel, not only to have their land/homes taken, then their freedoms but to add insult to injury their faith stolen as well.

And I thought I was very clear... that's what I was teaching was centered around our own culture and ways of our own country and continent. I am sure if you read over my initial post you will see that clearly.

Regarding Native American cultures one of things I have learned and been impressed with, is it's concepts surrounding respect and introductions to strangers, an incredibly fine example of politeness, instead of the usually blundering rudeness that western culture is prevalent to. Maybe when you and I get to know each other better, and when we have earned "each others respect" you can ask me more.

Till then...

I again extend my thanks to the founders and contributors of this web page.

Sláinte agus saibhreas a thabhairt duit beannacht
« Last Edit: April 19, 2014, 10:53:06 am by Solas Sa Dorchadas »

Offline Defend the Sacred

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Re: A Thank you / "Solas Sa Dorchadas"
« Reply #3 on: April 19, 2014, 02:18:05 pm »
Hospitality goes both ways :)

You come to our group as a stranger and admit you worked for, or still work for, the Security Forces in Belfast. On top of the "shamanism" and "Global Native Wisdom" defenses that's another red flag. Or, to be blunt, an Orange one.

Your indignance at being asked to clarify these statements indicates to me that you don't actually understand what we do here. We have good people who join our community to help fight misappropriation, but we also regularly get people who just want to get intel that might enable themselves to better pass as ceremony-sellers and other kinds of exploiters. Even if one is not charging money for their "courses," anyone claiming to teach these things is going to be questioned.

Many of us in this forum have our own history with the oppression and colonization inflicted by the English crown, and more than a few here know all too well about The Troubles. If you're with the colonial British Army or the Royal Ulster Constabulary (RUC) in Belfast, and calling the people who've fought for a free and united Ireland, "terrorists," that *is* people's business. Especially when you start talking about "Native Wisdom." We take colonialism very seriously here.

You speak of earning trust, but don't seem to think you need to earn ours. Your statement about how a Native group should always welcome outsiders, no questions asked, also speaks of a colonial mindset and racial stereotyping.

If you want to participate here, please read the pinned posts in all the sections as well as the documents on the main site. Go raibh maith agat.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2014, 03:20:59 pm by Kathryn »

Solas Sa Dorchadas

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Re: A Thank you
« Reply #4 on: April 19, 2014, 04:55:08 pm »
Thank you for your reply it was very enlightening.

Offline Smart Mule

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Re: A Thank you
« Reply #5 on: April 19, 2014, 10:19:40 pm »
Regarding Native American cultures one of things I have learned and been impressed with, is it's concepts surrounding respect and introductions to strangers, an incredibly fine example of politeness, instead of the usually blundering rudeness that western culture is prevalent to. Maybe when you and I get to know each other better, and when we have earned "each others respect" you can ask me more.


Well that's mighty stereotypical of you.  I would consider blundering rudeness to be an individual who flounces to a website and posts in a manner that shows they are quite full of themselves rather than having interest in being an ally.

sky

Solas Sa Dorchadas

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Re: A Thank you
« Reply #6 on: April 19, 2014, 11:37:30 pm »
SKY.....No not stereotypical, but a fine example to for all to aspire to, As fellow travelers on this road called life I would think you would know that. But you don't know that.. how could you, neither of you took the time to "get" to know me to find that out, neither of you if you where honest give me a chance. Yet i gave you a chance.

As for blundering rudeness some people should look closer to home and read people posts with a fair state of mind, I joined this forum to support and recommend not to be questioned and judged. A fair and objective reading of my initial post and the subsequent ones show that......

I have been judged and insulted....had the word "orange" thrown at me implying that I am some sort of bigoted protestant loyalist in Belfast, or toss insults about whether I am just some ignorant person with a "colonial mindset". And as for the uk goverment which I despise by the way... there was a lot I can say about colonial attitudes and actions on your own/US doorsteps but refrain not to. And yet your own posts state you are not a hate group!!!!...

I make one post speaking of my gratitude and an admin goes in suspicion mode and googles me and does search on a name I picked and insults, questions me like and implies that i am some sort of newage freak... is that how you work?, I that how you admins welcome people and get to know them.... seriously, is that NOT offensive to you?

I would expect admins to be an example or are you just going to ignore those insults? AND simply do what so many do and close ranks and give yourself a license to be so rude. I expect when I join a group to meet people, to get to know those people, to learn about each other and then from that trust, know who are dealing with, then you can ask questions.

Look again at my posts fairly and objectively...

And while we are at it, who is the director/chair/ceo of this organization....I wish to make a written formal compliant to that individual or group of leaders about the manner in which you have treated people you know "nothing" about ....and the manner in which you two have represented this organization on this occasion.

 I came to this group open handed and because of some red flag nonsense,  instead of a open hand meeting mine .... I met a fist in the face....

And organization such as this I am sure "has" a code of conduct governing admins...for I have had quite enough of this abuse from you two and want no further contact with you until who ever is responsible for this group see's these posts.

Now the only thing I request is the name, position and email or if preferable a contact number for this person or group that handles these complaints please....
« Last Edit: April 20, 2014, 12:05:39 am by Solas Sa Dorchadas »

Offline Smart Mule

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Re: A Thank you
« Reply #7 on: April 20, 2014, 12:13:50 am »
SKY.....No not stereotypical, but a fine example to for all to aspire to, As fellow travelers on this road called life I would think you would know that. But you don't know that.. how could you, neither of you took the time to "get" to know me to find that out, neither of you if you where honest give me a chance. Yet i gave you a chance.

Sir, please read what you said again.  Here, I'll help you -

Quote
Regarding Native American cultures one of things I have learned and been impressed with, is it's concepts surrounding respect and introductions to strangers, an incredibly fine example of politeness, instead of the usually blundering rudeness that western culture is prevalent to. Maybe when you and I get to know each other better, and when we have earned "each others respect" you can ask me more.

How do you know that all Native American cultures everywhere ever have the specific and same concept that you mention?  Seriously?  You don't see that as stereotyping?  Are European cultures as a whole all the same?  I don't think so.

Sky

Solas Sa Dorchadas

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Re: A Thank you
« Reply #8 on: April 20, 2014, 01:01:17 am »
Sky .... you say "How do you know that all Native American cultures everywhere ever have the specific and same concept that you mention?  Seriously?  You don't see that as stereotyping?  Are European cultures as a whole all the same?  I don't think so."

Your right I don't know ....

I haven't exhaustively studied every tribes greetings be they long or short form....

And yes you are right, from that perspective it would be seen as stereotyping and would "be" a form of stereotyping.......it was not my intention, but rather to point to a higher example set by wiser minds...but regardless of my intention offense was still given and for that you have my apologies.


Solas Sa Dorchadas

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Re: A Thank you
« Reply #9 on: April 20, 2014, 02:07:52 am »
Sky ....thank you for speaking to me "fairly" it was appreciated....

it's 2;41 am here and I'm tired and feeling "fed-up" (hope you know what that means :-) ) I'm looking over these posts.... please forget about sending me those contact details  to make a formal complaint. I don't see the point, An old man once taught me that some prices are too high to pay or are not worth enough to pay. And to be honest with you.... the thought of going over those posts again line by line with someone else to make a point....accomplishes nothing, your colleague has to realize she went too far, and that's her journey.

I have been wronged and unfairly treated by another admin whom I would expect that many hold in high esteem... you don't make just anyone an admin...and she made those insults very personal, while I did not at that time.

I had hoped with what is going on here in the UK and Ireland, speaking not only for myself but for the people I know, and those I already know that have been conned, we could have seriously done with your input, but after that.... caustic and to be honest unmerited welcome!!! I think I'll leave and keep my distance and try to find less volatile waters, which I am sure will put a smile on someones face....maybe some day I'll try again.

We all need each others help to get this message across, I offered my gratitude and support but I REALLY needed your help. We have people charging between $1500 to $3000 for courses over here in that UK and Ireland, quite a few frauds from what I have learned on your website.

I know after reading  quite a few posts there are indeed a lot of fair minded and professional people in this group, it is regrettable that I did not meet those people in the first instance, but met suspicion instead, my loss which I feel keenly.

And for what it is worth that suspicion is something that needs to be handled better. As I tried to indicate in my first post ...some posts do come over quite venomous.

This I address to Kathryn publicly since you publicly attacked me, I think your big enough to get some of your own medicine....What I am about to say I dislike but sometimes certain individuals need to learn to not be so arrogant....so though it is hard and harsh to read it was also hard and harsh to type. I have worked in this island in many capacities... in my youth as a community worker and mediator, even to the point of working with the political parties. I've worked hard for peace and healing for both communities on this Island. I don't take kindly to being insulted and I was insulted. I have often laughed when people have called me a "orange b*****d" when my blood has been far greener than theirs (hope you understand the color reference, I am sure Kathryn can explain it to you) my family goes waaay back :-) I am Irish by birth and descent, and have full rights unlike some to its heritage...I  can trace my lineage back to south of this island and to the ancient leadership of it clans. I was also born in the troubles and I lived through so unless you have done the same, you have no right to speak. Also note I don't like name calling or borderline racist comments, which that orange comment was, no  matter how you slice it.

And for the record Kathryn I have 4 children all grown....I am proud to say that it wasn't until they where 9-11 years old that they found out what a protestant or catholic was, and that was from other children asking them what they were. I didn't bring them up with sectarian labels, for the island that I live in to have hope the filth of those terms orange and green must be a thing of the past....no place for it or for your mindset. My tribe/clan has very ancient ties to both religions more green Ireland truth be told, I'm no "blow-in" so I know where I come from and I've stood on the interfaces for many nights with stones going overhead trying to stop the riots, getting the kids off the street......  I've brought my children up never to speak like you...I would have severely disciplined them, had they dared speak such filth like that in my presence ...I am proud that my family are now mixed (terrible word for it) with sons and daughters married to both sides of my community. I am glad to say that talk like yours is becoming obsolete, that both sides now have good education and opportunities. I have worked and spoken on all sides with all terrorist reps. I am a proud man proud of my heritage and proud that those words and attitudes like yours and the people who still spout it are becoming increasingly unwelcome. I have friends who are in the ground today both civilian, police and those who fought for freedom from both sides of the divide ....your orange comment disgusts me.....and if you truly meant it ...then I am ashamed of you ....one day and soon we will have a united Ireland and united people ..if you mean that trash then you leave us and our heritage alone ..for you brought nothing but dishonor to it with what you said, and to speak as you did on this forum among these people you have disrespected them.  >:(

Now rant over....and take a deep breath

I have read many informative and wise posts in particular from "earthw7" (please convey my thanks to her for taking the time to write them) they brought clarity and understanding. I will make it point to inform others that I meet of this  "theft" that is going on, from those who feel they have a right to your way of life but no right at all, very well put. I will regret not getting the opportunity to ask her and others advice on how I can get this message out there.

Again my apologies for the generalization, hopefully you will understand my intention was to appeal for a more thoughtful approach.  And while I know trust and respect must be earned, a small portion of it must be extended by both parties if people are to meet in the middle, to build more. Surely you agree? I felt that I did extend that hand of respect and trust.

Anyway I wish the broader group well, in protecting what's yours, exposing the frauds and in educating the innocent and ignorant.

Blessing and Honor to you, your families and communities
« Last Edit: April 20, 2014, 04:16:50 am by Solas Sa Dorchadas »

Offline Sturmboe

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Re: A Thank you
« Reply #10 on: April 20, 2014, 09:01:05 am »
I cannot find really harming words by the other posters here in this topic, there may some statements like those of Kathryn make you feel angry by some offended points.
I read the comments of the other in a position with a further distance than you, so my sight is different.
In my sight: Behind your politely looking words they are mirroring to me too much disappointments, charges, discords and on the other hand gloryfying traditional and native ways in its extremes of black-and white-thinking. It does not mean I am right, but that is that what I feel by your words. Could be, there is somewhere a great disarrangement.

I am astonished when you give some people here a chance. Quote:
"But you don't know that.. how could you, neither of you took the time to "get" to know me to find that out, neither of you if you where honest give me a chance. Yet i gave you a chance."
To me it seems offensive and overconfident. Is there a way to give a little bit of a respectful chance - to other people here? To clear something is a chance to make the first step: It is that what other people here really mean or just a feeling you get by something or something else, mirroring?

Questions in common and suspected inquiries may hurt, but there are way to become something awaken in a respectful way of both! sides. It could be to feel like on a testbed. Well, the issue of this forum is not an easy walk, it involves fare more than just money or copying culures. The attempts with and by frauds are not even obviously and it is often not a superficial hocus-pocus-work. This is an important work here.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2014, 09:16:45 am by Sturmboe »

Offline Laurel

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Re: A Thank you
« Reply #11 on: April 20, 2014, 10:20:05 am »
(Sorry I suck at quoting.)

Solas, you should have lurked more. You should have read more. You didn't. Instead you decided that you knew it all, and so you, the newest member of this community, have the right to say how you're spoken to and how everyone behaves.

"No not stereotypical, but a fine example to for all to aspire to, As fellow travelers on this road called life I would think you would know that. But you don't know that.. how could you, neither of you took the time to "get" to know me to find that out, neither of you if you where honest give me a chance. Yet i gave you a chance."

Solas didn't owe us a chance, but we got one. How dare we reject it? Solas, you're being judged the same way everyone on planet earth is judged: by your words (as we can't, in the internet, see your actions). There's no special exception for you on this point. You're not owed extra chances. And a stereotype is a stereotype, even if it's a positive one.

"I make one post speaking of my gratitude and an admin goes in suspicion mode and googles me and does search on a name I picked and insults, questions me like and implies that i am some sort of newage freak... is that how you work?, I that how you admins welcome people and get to know them.... seriously, is that NOT offensive to you?"

Nope! Your "gratitude" looks from here like a temper tantrum thrown by a small child. Seriously, you reserve the right not to be Googled?! This is not the Solas Site For Caring About Solas' Feelings: it's NAFPS. You've never not been given the benefit of the doubt before? Well, that was your luck, not something you were entitled to.

"I would expect admins to be an example or are you just going to ignore those insults? AND simply do what so many do and close ranks and give yourself a license to be so rude. I expect when I join a group to meet people, to get to know those people, to learn about each other and then from that trust, know who are dealing with, then you can ask questions."

While we're at it, what else do you expect? It might be fun to make a list of things nobody ever has or ever will owe your rude self. People have to meet you and allow you to get to know them before you'll allow them to ask you questions? That's not how human interactions work. Are you serious?

"And while we are at it, who is the director/chair/ceo of this organization....I wish to make a written formal compliant to that individual or group of leaders about the manner in which you have treated people you know "nothing" about ....and the manner in which you two have represented this organization on this occasion."

 ;D :o ::) ;D

And organization such as this I am sure "has" a code of conduct governing admins...for I have had quite enough of this abuse from you two and want no further contact with you until who ever is responsible for this group see's these posts.

We're all trembling in our boots, Honey. Seriously: Next time, LURK MORE.


« Last Edit: April 20, 2014, 12:06:05 pm by Laurel »

Offline JeelyPiece

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Re: A Thank you
« Reply #12 on: April 20, 2014, 11:45:48 am »
(Sorry I suck at quoting.)

Solas, you should have lurked more. You should have read more. You didn't. Instead you decided that you knew it all, and so you, the newest member of this community, have the right to say how you're spoken to and how everyone behaves.

Yup.

If anyone wants to show themselves as sincere and that they want to be an ally, it's going to take more than a few paragraphs to build that kind of trust – especially when those paragraphs show that the person has no idea what this forum is really about. And then on top of all that, they go on to demand respect, and try and dictate the behaviour of the admins. None of that shows even a basic understanding of this forum, or says anything particularly positive about the poster's intent.

Offline kitten42

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Re: A Thank you
« Reply #13 on: April 20, 2014, 02:29:01 pm »

it's 2;41 am here and I'm tired and feeling "fed-up" (hope you know what that means :-) ) I'm looking over these posts.... please forget about sending me those contact details  to make a formal complaint. I don't see the point, An old man once taught me that some prices are too high to pay or are not worth enough to pay. And to be honest with you.... the thought of going over those posts again line by line with someone else to make a point....accomplishes nothing, your colleague has to realize she went too far, and that's her journey.

I have been wronged and unfairly treated by another admin whom I would expect that many hold in high esteem... you don't make just anyone an admin...and she made those insults very personal, while I did not at that time.

Kathryn strikes me as an excruciatingly principled Irishwoman grumpy at a world seemingly full of silly people. We have plenty of such people all over the place here in Appalachia, I'm surprised there aren't more in Ireland?

She has rightfully posted a few critical remarks to me on the subject of sloppy and imprecise scholarship and research.  I am attempting to improve on that before posting again. It's important to the work this webpage does to be absolutely accurate.

This forum is also full of people who are accustomed to being attacked for who they are every day, all day, in subtle ways and means that most in the dominant culture can't even begin to imagine.  They are suspicious, untrusting, doubtful and they have every right to be.  A LOT of frauds come in here trying for an air of legitimacy, it would be silly to give anyone at all the benefit of the doubt.

I am Christian, and I learned that forgiveness is a gift. Understanding is a gift. You cannot earn it, you cannot deserve it, you can only ask for it. You may not feel you have anything to ask forgiveness for from this forum, living as you do in Ireland instead of stolen land here in America.  You could, however, offer your sympathies and your apologies for the stupid things your relatives have done and then shut up a while to listen.  Instead, your initial post seemed custom designed to raise red flags in the minds of everyone here. *Nobody* is qualified to offer a course on spirituality from another culture.


I look to the commonality of "Native Wisdom" of those peoples across entire globe who have managed to protect what my ancestors could not, to give me some sort of guide. Because even though there are huge differences, there are some common grounds. Thankfully truth is outside all patterns, opinions and dogma and geography.


I disagree.  Truth is found within patterns, dogma and geography.  Opinions, well, all you can say about those is yep, it's true that I have an opinion. If you're asking us to consider a different definition of the word "truth" than something that can be researched, footnoted, and expressed in numbers, then you're asking us to agree on your opinion about truth. Which we probably won't, having our own opinions on the subject.


Among other things in my life, your page and it contributors have encouraged me to refer others to this web page and surprisingly motivated me create and deliver a course on native wisdom and shamanism and share my understanding, studies and journey. It's a free course (I receive nothing, in fact it costs me money  :) not much thankfully and like many of your contributors I believe it is morally wrong to charge for something like this) centered around our own culture and ways of our own country and continent, our heritage may be fractured and broken in so many ways but it's still rich and diverse. And it requires a lot of work putting it together into a philosophy (not religion) that helps people.

It is my hope that this course will inspire others to respect and stop making money off what was freely given by "our" ancestors and also to stop making money off what has not been freely given from other native cultures. Never mind that those who teach and charge for this have never had even enough respect to seek permission to share it. Hopefully it will put these people will be out of business and put them "properly" into the business of help others


Apparently you don't have enough respect to seek permission to share it either, whether or not you charge for it.  How do you justify creating and delivering a course on native wisdom and shamanism and sharing your understanding, studies and journey? You don't have any "native" wisdom beyond being a man from Northern Ireland and whatever you've learned from that, you can't have studied shamanism, and sharing your understanding, studies is journey is part of being friends with someone, not teaching them.

Sir, I am sorry you've had such troubles in your life. You have my deepest condolences for your wife's illness. You have my deepest condolences for living in one of the terribly troubled places in the world, regardless of your side in it. I understand that you came here seeking understanding and the company of what you thought were like-minded people.  What's here, though, is a bunch of people working towards an important goal of their own with their own problems, their own troubles, and their own cares. You can be a part of the problem, you can help fight the problem, or you can get out of the way. Your posts share a tone of condescension and entitlement to respect that has consistently characterized those who were a part of the problem. May I suggest an alteration to your writing style if you wish to carry out your stated goals in your introductory post?

Peace,

Kitten42

Offline RedRightHand

  • Posts: 177
Re: A Thank you
« Reply #14 on: April 20, 2014, 07:14:08 pm »
Where I come from and I'm sure you too, it's considered rude to run a background check on people no matter how superficial. I worked as a therapist in Northern Ireland as part of the security forces here. I like my privacy and I give and expect respect, I live in a country where terrorists shoot you or place bombs under your car if they find out if you work with or for the police.

I have been speaking to some people who live near Mr. "Solas" and have some interesting information. First a bit of background.

Mr. "Solas" admitted to working for the Security Forces in Northern Ireland. These are the English military police forces, not Irish. Perhaps he thought Natives wouldn't know what this meant, as he also made some very silly, contradictory, and far from credible claims about himself.

These Security Forces he works for are charged with maintaining the English occupation of Northern Ireland. They use military force and violence to deny sovereignty to the Irish people. The Security Forces are the men in full combat gear you've seen shooting down unarmed women, children and other civilians in the streets of Belfast.

During The Troubles, NDN groups have protested alongside the native Irish people who also don't want to be occupied and ruled by the English Crown. While the violence in Northern Ireland has de-escalated significantly in recent years, The Troubles are not completely over. The British still maintain control of the North, and the Security Forces have recently arrested people simply for speaking the Irish language. The Security Forces are the English Crown's way of enforcing this colonial rule, with murder when they choose.

Mr. "Solas" referred to the people opposing this violent colonization as "terrorists." Think about that. That is the same thing Native activists get called when they stand up to colonizing armies. This is why Natives have joined Irish protests, and vice versa, against people like Mr. "Solas."

What I found out today:

Anyone who has applied for a job with the Security Forces has had a background check run on them as standard operating procedure. So Mr. "Solas" has of course had background checks run, and he was comfortable with what the English military would find on him. He thinks the occupying army has the right to know who he is, but Native groups, including native Irish who want their freedom, do not have this right.

The only people in his position who would be scared of a basic background check by Natives (or native Irish) is if they are trying to hide the fact they work for the oppressors. He's not scared of the oppressors knowing who he is, he's scared that oppressed groups he tries to infiltrate might look into his background. That tells me all I need to know about where his loyalties lie, what sort of "journey" he is on, and what his purpose is in trying to join our groups.