Hello from Cornwall UK.

[mark747eagle]

My name is Mark.  I am white European, though my mother and grandmother were born in Saskatchewan.  I do not claim any Native American bloodline.  I do not claim to be anything in particular.  But I do try to learn wisdom, traditions and my connectedness from the teachings of many of your Nations.

I was an active participant in Ehama for a number of years.  I was sad to learn of the death of Rainbowhawk. (Sparrowhawk, I think that means).  I see he crops up here (that is how I found the site).  There are a few things I will say from knowledge of the working of Ehama, and then leave it at that.

Ehama's stated mission was to bring teachings from the Delicate Lodge out to the whole world - something many of you will not approve of.  But they did it with good intentions.  The work with corporations was to try and change things.  Make the world a better, connected place.  And respect all things and our Mother Earth.  At least that is what I took away from the teachings.

Yes they charged for teaching.  But if they hadn't there wouldn't have been much teaching.  As far as I know they never profited in any real material sense.  I can remember the team not having enough money to travel to their next venue.

I do not know if they had Native American bloodlines, but the work 'Metis' was used.  But I think it was meant to convey 'mixed blood' to those of us who needed it explaining, not the formal meaning of Metis.  At least I hope it is the case.  And nI guess the teachings were taken from many traditions, which I know now is not approved of.

So of course I also know Carlos Grover.  Sad to see he is asking money for his work.  I though he was better than that.

I guess I take a lot from Frank Fools Crow, and hope not to raise any ire here.  He spoke of sharing the wisdom with all the world, if the book is to be believed (Fools Crow: Wisdom and Power).  If white people see the reality and huge value of your wisdom, and want to use it a little for themselves and those around them, is that OK?  And NOT pretend to be something, even a 'medicine holder' which I think was the phrase at Ehama.  That I am not.  I do not consider I know enough, and I'm not sure it's even an acceptable term.  Also I've probably learn a lot of 'wisdom' which is a mish mash of cultures without knowing it.  Which is something Ehama were guilty of.  Though I think they were fairly open about that.  It depends on how you see the Delicate Lodge.

I am also here to make some recompense (though I do not yet know how) for my grandfather who was a Christian minister out in Saskatchewan for some years.  I am aware of the awful part the Christian church machine in destroying NA cultures, though they have since apologies (1988) and claim to be making amends.  But they cannot take back what they did.

Honestly, I don't know how this stuff I'm writing will go down here, but openness and clarity is best.   I just have a yearning to learn and connect.  Not to sell, make false claims or mislead others.

If I get immediately removed from this site for what I have said, so be it.  I understand.

Mark

[Sturmboe]

Welcome,

I didn´t know in which way do you really want to learn wisdom, traditions ... from many Nations? I hope you do not struggle back in a way which is not yours. Eham seems to me not an Institute with good intentions   http://blog.psiram.com/tag/delicate-lodge/   . Working with industry they earn a lot of money. Is Metis really existing or just an invention, Metis is not accepted a an Ethnie in USA.

I hope you find your own individual way.

[mark747eagle]

Sturmboe

Well no, not from many Nations.  That would be like joining every branch of the Christian church, and then some.   Ehama was my start.  Yes it was a mixed bag, though I still think they had good intentions.  Sorry I don't read or speak German so that link has left me none the wiser.  My fear is that once the charlatans are discarded, we will see there isn't anyone much left to trust over here.  Read Fools Crow and Black Elk I guess. Not much else that I know of can be trusted. 

Of course the Christians did the same to the Celts (I use the term Celts broadly) and almost entirely eradicated their traditions much longer ago.  And that is true for much of Europe.  I think that is why many Europeans are drawn to Native American ways.  We lost our ways a long time ago, and probably feel some sense of kinship.  The little that is known shows some parallels in tradition with you.  But 'selling' wisdom, the tools, the truth is not a way to foster any sort of kinship is it!  If you have to sell the truth, then it cannot be the truth.

Metis?  What do you understand by it?  I used to think it meant mixed blood, but there seems to be a more specific meaning.  I think they just meant 'we have some Indian blood'. 

M

[Defend the Sacred]

My fear is that once the charlatans are discarded, we will see there isn't anyone much left to trust over here.

Which is why you can't learn these things from books. Please read the main page of this site, and all the pinned threads. You could start with your amends by not promoting or defending frauds, and not playing Indian. Be Cornish. What's wrong with being Cornish? Right now there is a struggle to preserve the Cornish language and re-establish Home Rule. There are good, spiritual people involved in those causes, and it will honour all our ancestors more than dabbling at your ideas of NDN ceremonies.

Of course the Christians did the same to the Celts (I use the term Celts broadly) and almost entirely eradicated their traditions much longer ago. 

Actually, people who consider themselves Christian are the reason so many songs, tales and prayers to the older spirits have survived. The Christians brought writing to the Celtic nations, which is how the older stories were preserved.

I think that is why many Europeans are drawn to Native American ways.  We lost our ways a long time ago, and probably feel some sense of kinship.  The little that is known shows some parallels in tradition with you.

Many authentic, earth-honouring spiritual ways survive in the more remote areas of the Celtic nations and the diaspora, and over the past three decades there has been an intensive effort to revive these ways. But you have to learn the language and earn the trust of the tradition-bearers. There are a few parallels, but there are far more pretendians who drape their stolen ways in knotwork and tartan and lie about the origins.

I'm sorry to break this to you, but what you have learned in your encounters with the pretendian exploiters and "Native American" books by white men is as inauthentic as the Wiccan and Victorian-era, English pseudo-druidism that tries to pass itself of as "Celtic."  If you'd read the site you'd know this.

Metis?  What do you understand by it?  I used to think it meant mixed blood, but there seems to be a more specific meaning.  I think they just meant 'we have some Indian blood'. 

The Métis are a specific ethnic and cultural group, most of whom live in Canada. Only frauds use it as a generic term for "mixed race."

Please spend some more time reading the site before posting more. Most of what you are mistaken about has already been explained here, many times over. I appreciate that you want to learn, so it's time to start reading.

[mark747eagle]

Well I'm probably no more Cornish than i am Native  American. I was born in the hell hole they call London. Actually i don't play Indian, but i know why you say that.

But you know, you have people who respect and support you here. Please don't tar us all with the brush of Pretendians. We know we cannot be you.

One god, many paths.

[mark747eagle]

About: I'm sorry to break this to you, but what you have learned in your encounters with the pretendian exploiters and "Native American" books by white men is as inauthentic as the Wiccan and Victorian-era, English pseudo-druidism that tries to pass itself of as "Celtic."  If you'd read the site you'd know this.

Yes i knew long before i found this site. Ok the Christians bought writing to us, but 8 million people were executed for basically being a witch. Christian churches were built on temple sites, ceremonies were replaced by Christian ones. That's why Christmas is at the wrong time of year!

So can so done tell me if Fools Crow: Wisdom and Power is a genuine account, cos some if it goes very much against what is said here in regard to the sharing of ceremony, tradition and tools.

Thanks for the patience and openness

[educatedindian]

So can so done tell me if Fools Crow: Wisdom and Power is a genuine account, cos some if it goes very much against what is said here in regard to the sharing of ceremony, tradition and tools.

Thanks for the patience and openness

Fools Crow endorsed the Declaration of War Against Exploiters. You can find the Declaration among our links as well as elsewhere online in many places.

Sharing wisdom is not the same as sharing ceremony, and it certainly is not the same as sharing a bastardized, distorted, highly commercial imitation, done by non Natives outside of its tribal context.

I can read the words of Moses and find wisdom in them and admire Jewish culture. Why would anyone conclude that means I as a gentile should get a bar mitzvah or go to other gentiles who do an inaccurate and even dangerous version of circumcision for profit? How would doing so "make the world a better place"?

It may take some time for you to deal with how you were so consistently lied to. But we have many reformer New Agers among the members.

[mark747eagle]

So can so done tell me if Fools Crow: Wisdom and Power is a genuine account, cos some if it goes very much against what is said here in regard to the sharing of ceremony, tradition and tools.

Thanks for the patience and openness

Fools Crow endorsed the Declaration of War Against Exploiters. You can find the Declaration among our links as well as elsewhere online in many places.

Sharing wisdom is not the same as sharing ceremony, and it certainly is not the same as sharing a bastardized, distorted, highly commercial imitation, done by non Natives outside of its tribal context.

I can read the words of Moses and find wisdom in them and admire Jewish culture. Why would anyone conclude that means I as a gentile should get a bar mitzvah or go to other gentiles who do an inaccurate and even dangerous version of circumcision for profit? How would doing so "make the world a better place"?

It may take some time for you to deal with how you were so consistently lied to. But we have many reformer New Agers among the members.

Thank you.  No - you would have to become a Jew.  Which anyone who is a true believer can.  But this is different.  I do not think or pretend I am what I am not.  When I started to follow Ehama, it seemed genuine and true, though it was really just a set of tools, I don't think anyone thought we were following an unchanged pure path.  If they did they were foolish.  At best I think it was 'based on' in much the way films are 'based on' the truth in some way.  But it should never ever be represented as 'the way'.  I am wiser now (not much). Maybe discerning is a better word.

If someone feels and knows the Earth has a power and conciousness and that all things are connected and to be respected, then I guess they search for wisdom and tools to aid them.  And that is what the pretendians prey on isn't it?  Though i bet some of tell themselves they are doing something good and only taking enough to live on.  I do know enough to know that even that is so wrong.

I do not want to steal your traditions, spirituality, and I cannot become you.  I need to learn and grow though.  No I have no inalienable right to anything.  But it does feel a bit sometimes that being white is a crime.  Maybe we are getting back what we gave out for hundreds of years, and so this is just.

I have seen the declaration.  And I support it.  Fools Crow also though, went as far as to share a lot of knowledge with the rest of the world, to better it.  Well unless Wisdom and Power is a pack of lies.  Hence the question. 

No I know you cannot get Spirit out of a book, only limited knowledge and no experience.  But I have a soul, I have valid experiences.  Knowledge just helps to make sense of them.  I hope.

Tell me to shut up when you've had enough of this!  No malice intended!

[Lime Tree]

Hello, BoeingBird ,

Please, as requested, do more reading on this forum. That will serve to avoid irritation.
Your experience will still be yours, even if you start to see it in a very different light.
Let us say, that you collected a lot of gems. And on this website, you are bound to learn a lot about gems - especially about false gems. So it will be a sobering experience.
It might take courage and stamina to take it - if you read the member introductions of more than five posts, you will see that. Most run away from it.

[mark747eagle]

Hello, BoeingBird ,

Please, as requested, do more reading on this forum. That will serve to avoid irritation.
Your experience will still be yours, even if you start to see it in a very different light.
Let us say, that you collected a lot of gems. And on this website, you are bound to learn a lot about gems - especially about false gems. So it will be a sobering experience.
It might take courage and stamina to take it - if you read the member introductions of more than five posts, you will see that. Most run away from it.

I have learnt not to run away from what is uncomfortable.  And thank you.  It's much harder to find real hinest learning than the trickery though!  I will persevere.  I have good reason, and good intent.  You won't see me popping up offering to sell knowledge or ceremony, or purporting to be  mixed blood.  Skin is far too pale anyway. 

Mark

and yes I did have a 'medicine name' but I'll have to think again.  Three in fact over the years.  Shameful now.

[Cheesy Little Life]

So of course I also know Carlos Grover.

I think you mean Philip Carlos Glover.

There is a thread on him under Frauds:

www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=303.0

[Defend the Sacred]

Yes i knew long before i found this site. Ok the Christians bought writing to us, but 8 million people were executed for basically being a witch. Christian churches were built on temple sites, ceremonies were replaced by Christian ones. That's why Christmas is at the wrong time of year!

The claim that "8 Million" (usually "9 million") Europeans were murdered for being Pagan in the "Burning Times" is largely Wiccan propaganda. While many people were murdered in land grabs and power grabs in the middle ages, and sometimes they used the power of the Church to justify it via the Inquisition, most of those murdered were Christians, murdered by other Christians. The numbers were also far lower. There weren't millions of people living in the countries where this happened, so that number is impossibly high. Gardner and/or others involved in his "Witchcraft Museum" just made that figure up. There are scholarly studies out now that clarify all of this.

I don't know as much about what happened in Cornwall, but the most vicious manifestations of the Inquisition were on the continent. The uncomfortable truth for many modern pagans is that, in most of the Celtic areas, the adoption of Christianity was slow and voluntary. There have been many generations of syncretic Christians who still maintained Gaelic cultures, in particular. The old gods became saints, and the festivals and customs really didn't change that much. Yes, a lot was lost, but not as much as in Continental Europe. The situation in the areas of the Celtic nations that retain their languages is more akin to the Native tribes here who had early contact with the invaders.

To those who preserve the old, earth-honouring ways in the Celtic nations, "witch" means someone who uses metaphysical means to harm people, and harm their community. Only neopagans consider "witch" a positive term, and misapply it to all who work with the spirits.

[Defend the Sacred]

There are some interviews that white people published, claiming to speak for Natives, that were written in a time before those Native communities had had much interaction with non-Natives. Initially, most Natives were very trusting and welcomed people.  Most did not foresee that the non-Natives would be so greedy, inappropriate, and even downright evil.  Non-Natives who are misappropriating from Natives love to quote the early things white people wrote about these Natives, and misrepresent the white mens' words as coming from the Natives themselves. And they turn a blind eye to the fact that those same Natives later changed their position when they saw how terribly the non-Natives were behaving.

You give a stranger the benefit of the doubt, and give an interview where you welcome the strangers. Then you find out the stranger stole your grandmothers' quilts and is now selling knockoffs as authentic. You find they claim they were adopted by your dead relatives and you know it's a lie. You find out they tape recorded some ceremonial songs and witnessed part of a ceremony, and are now leading this fragment of a ceremony for other white people. So you come out and say you're not going to give these people the benefit of the doubt anymore. But none of the white-run publishing houses wants to publish that.

[earthw7]

welcome i hope that you take time to read what is posted.
I am Lakota and Dakota i live on my reservation and i am so
honored to help on this site with all of the people here.
There so much fraud out there about my people so today
we have people coming to us telling us how we should do
our ceremonies because some fraud taught them. They spread words like Aho claiming
it is ours like we don't know our own language.
I get offended everyday by people who think they are us or want to be like us.
I tell people that everyone needs to find that center inside themselves but
they need to look inside not to other cultures/

[mark747eagle]

None of the theft, misappropriation, lies, misrepresentation do I support.  Knowing what is true and what is not is hard though.  But the same is true (and to a greater extent) of European Earth traditions.  We've had much lodger to mess those up here.  It goes back nearly two centuries.  That may be why Europeans look to the West.  It's not right, but It feels like being an orphan and hundreds of ill-meaning souls claiming to be the true parent. 
Late reply - been kinda busy transforming my life!