Introduction & Discussion

[Smart Mule]

JAH, you wouldn't happen to be talking about Clifford would you?

[JustAnotherHuman]

Hi Sky,

   Again, all reasonable questions. These people do have permission from the people whose land they are on. I have witnessed very particular protocol (not that I claim to understand it all) in regards to the structures erected that deal with the ancestors and spirits of the area. It is my belief that the people who are conducting ceremonies do have permission to run ceremonies. I perceive this to be so through the respect they receive from other Ndn people who come from the same place as them, and know their families well, as well as the apparent sincerity and lack of anything I would consider a red flag about how they operate. I can not attest to them having permission to invite outsiders, although I have heard from one or two ceremonial leaders that they were given specific instructions from their elders that this particular ceremony, when being used in this particular fashion, is not to turn people away, but to be opened. I will often make a monetary donation as well as prepare food in advance that I bring to the gatherings, but neither of these things are required or expected. I am very open to the idea of supporting the ceremony in other ways without attending (I appreciate this advice), although I do know that some of the people who have seen me attend before will find this a bit strange and encourage me to join.

While I am sure you are right that they would completely understand why you are asking who they were and where they were from, you must also understand why they would not necessarily want their names, who they are, and what they are doing posted on a public forum. They have absolutely explained all of that to me, but if being a member of this forum means that I have to uncover personal information (or really any information) about these people than I do not feel that this is my right to share, and I will refrain from participating here. I understand all of your concerns completely, and I hope on some level you can understand my reservations about sharing information about people or ceremony that is not mine to share.

I simply posted here to hear different perspectives on the previously mentioned questions, because I value the input that I have seen on these message boards, and after much deilberation decided that I would give it a go, and create a post.

I hope I have addressed your questions and concerns.

[JustAnotherHuman]

Sky, I have never come across anybody named Clifford...

[JustAnotherHuman]

Kathryn,


   You bring up other reasonable concerns. In my experience nearly everyone that I have met that is leading ceremonies still lives in their tribal community, and only comes to visit to lead ceremony for periods of time. Many of the Ndn participants live in the extended area where these ceremonies are taking place, while the leaders of the ceremonies will travel. The local Ndn population know these men from back home.

I will be honest that I am beginning to regret posting on this board as it feels like I will either disclose more information than I feel comfortable disclosing or I will be assumed to be concealing something. This was never my intention and I apologize if I created any problems here. Perhaps somebody can point me towards a resource where my initial question can be answered. I am grateful for the insight that has been offered.

[Defend the Sacred]

There's something wrong if you won't even say what Nation's ceremonies these are, and which ceremonies. If they are doing ceremonies that you say everyone is welcome to, why is this secret? 

[Smart Mule]

Okay, here is my perspective.  If these people do not want their names or what they are doing out there then they could very well have something to hide.  Having people from their community come visit doesn't mean anything, how do you know that the visitors are respected in their community? 

With regard to the structure, how do you know that the protocols you have witnessed are acceptable to the ancestors and spirits of the area?

[Smart Mule]

Is there a healthy way for white people to participate in certain ceremonial ways (with the understanding that there are other things that they are not welcomed to)?

I hope this is the initial question you were referring to.  It's situational and dependent on the participants as well as on your ego.  If there are ndn people who are attending these ceremonies and they are made to feel uncomfortable by your presence logic dictates that they should feel comfortable when participating in something that is theirs.  If they are living away from community and this is the only time they have to be with community then they need it more than you do.  Again, the most respectful thing in my opinion would be to show up and take a supportive role such as cooking, watching children, that kind of thing.  It would not only be appreciated but it may help those who are having a difficult time with your presence understand that you just want to hang out with your friends and not take away from their spiritual time.

[JustAnotherHuman]

Sky,

  Thank you for your reply and your answer to my initial question. It is not the decision of these people that I do not share their names, their nation, or their ceremonies that is my decision and I do not feel comfortable putting that here on a public forum. They have no idea that I have put this here and I slightly regret doing so to be completely honest. Everything that you have said makes sense to me, and it will all be considered in how I go forward. I appreciate your thoughtful reply.

[JustAnotherHuman]

Kathryn,

   While I understand why someone on your end would perceive it that way, I hope you can understand why someone on my end might feel like it is not their place to discuss what people are doing what and where on a public forum, especially given my honest expression of the fact that I already feel like I may be overstepping boundaries. They are ceremonies that are practiced by many nations, and I would like to clarify that I do not say anything about anybody being welcome to these ceremonies, I was relaying what was told to me. I make no claims about these ceremonies myself. I appreciate the advice that you have given me earlier in the thread. It makes complete sense to me why everybody has responded the way they have with the amount of Nuage frauds flying around I understand that, and there is no way for me to confirm that that is not what I am a part of without revealing more information than I feel comfortable revealing, so I think we may have to accept that this ends here. I hope that my coming here hasn't caused any problems around here, my intention was only to gain insight from the people around here whose opinion I appreciate, and it seems that it created a bit more of a stir than I intended to. I apologize if that is the case.

[Defend the Sacred]

No stir. We hear this stuff every day.

[JustAnotherHuman]

Okay good. All the best to you and your website...