Lucky Owl

[Lucky Owl]

Dear people  :)

First of all thanks for activating my account.
I registered hier cause I want to learn more about the topics being discussed here.


*******

I am a german woman so I please pardon my english I'm trying to do my best.

About 14 years ago I had a deep lifechanging experience with nature and spirts.
They lead me for about one year in sacred illness, where I learnd a lot. My life would never be as blind as before.
Unfortunately in my country there are nearly no people who are able to deal with that. They just thought I was nuts.
After one year  I met a medicine woman from peru who gave me as first person the important information.
She said earth gave power to me and I have to learn to walk with it.
She made a ritual for my protection and guidance.
I think it's impotant to say, that she didn't want any money for that.

But I never met her again and walked on my own with this new knowledge through a society that... let me say...
the more spirits opend my eyes, the less I was able to stand the people.
For about six more years I wasn't able to live a regulary live.
Well I had places to live, warm rooms but
I only wanted to spend most of my time in nature being alone with myself and the spirits.

After a while I met people calling themselves shamans. I was so glad to meet a person who would be able understand me
in my situation but guess what... there was nearly no person who would give a helping hand without wanting money.

But I also met a few people who gave me a helping hand and support to go on clearer with my experience.

Honestly, I don't know much about native people like you.
But I always wished to live in a culture who is able to deal with that, cause mine doesn't.

We don't have any knowldege, tradition or ealders.
Most people who call themselves shamans don't have any clou what they are doing.
And do nothing until they see money.
But I always felt it is wrong to earn money of the sacred.
I had to find my own way and still do.

One turning point in my life was the birth of my daughter 10 years ago.
She brought warming earth into my life.

I reconnected with my society cause here are my roots.
But I can talk to only very few people about the way I really feel about life...
and the importance of Spirits in it.
Today I study trees and currently I  work on my Bachelorthesis on humic acids.


I am here cause I want to learn.


Best wishes
Lucky Owl

[Defend the Sacred]

Thank you for introducing yourself.

Have you read the main website and the pinned threads in all the sections of the forum?

You wrote, "We don't have any knowldege, tradition or ealders." Do you mean no Germanic traditions? Many still live. You have the Eddas, many stories of the ancestors, and small but vital communities that still follow the older ways and have been working for decades to reconstruct what was lost. You have to wade through the fluff and the racists to find it, but it's there. The Germanic and Northern traditions have far more survivals than most other Europeans.

What you will hopefully learn here is that the traditional, earth-honouring ways that survive - whether Native American or European - are based in family and community. These ways are communal, not something you can learn in workshops, books or the Internet. And the Native American ways are only for Native Americans. You have to be born to it. There are plenty of frauds who will take your money to tell you otherwise, but you will probably find them exposed here for what they really are.

From the main page, http://newagefraud.org
___________________________________________________

Do you think you are "Indian at heart" or were an Indian in a past life? Do you admire native ways and want to incorporate them into your life and do your own version of a sweat lodge or a vision quest? Have you seen ads, books, and websites that offer to train you to be come a shaman in an easy number of steps, a few days on the weekend, or for a fee?

Have you really thought this all the way through? Have you thought about how native people feel about what you might want to do?

Please think about these important points before you take that fateful step and expend time, money, and emotional investment:

Native people DO NOT believe it is ethical to charge money for any ceremony or teaching. Any who charge you even a penny are NOT authentic.

Native traditionalists believe the ONLY acceptable way to transmit traditional teachings is orally and face-to-face. Any allegedly traditional teachings in books or on websites are NOT authentic.

Learning medicine ways takes decades and must be done with great caution and patience out of respect for the sacred. Any offer to teach you all you need to know in a weekend seminar or two is wishful thinking at best, fraud at worst.

Most of these FRAUDULENT operators are not the slightest bit reputable. Some, such as Robert "Ghostwolf" AKA Robert Franzone and Forrest Carter, have actually been convicted of fraud. Some are sexual predators who prey upon their followers. "Sun Bear" AKA Vincent La Duke was a serial rapist who was facing numerous charges when he died, including the rape of girls as young as fourteen.

Women should be extremely wary of any " teacher" who claims sex is part of an alleged "ceremony." Most of these FRAUDULENT operators have been caught making complete fantasies of what many whites WISH natives were like. Another way to say it is that they are outright liars and hoaxers. Some, like Carlos Castaneda, were exposed as long as three decades ago.

You probably are asking yourself, "Aren't any of these people for real and a good way for me to learn?"

We (native people and our supporters) realize that most of you do not know any better, at least not yet, but we hope you learn about these matters from more reputable sources and in a more respectful manner.

If it says New Age or Shamanism on the cover, it's not a good source for learning about natives. Find out which authors can be trusted before you pay money to operators who harm us all.

Please understand the following points about native spiritual ways:

Native belief systems are COMMUNAL, not focused on the individual's faith like Christianity, and are TRIBE-SPECIFIC. There is NO "generic Indian" form of spirituality. There are as many differences from tribe to tribe as there are between Hinduism and the Church of England. No one would think of teaching those two as the same and calling them "Indo-European," yet many of these FRAUDULENT operators teach a thrown together mishmash of bits and pieces of different beliefs.

TRADITIONAL elders are very cautious about changing rituals and mixing different customs, it does happen, of course, but only after lengthy discussions that can take decades. FRAUDULENT operators are very casual and haphazard in what they do, in a manner that shows they have no understanding of or respect for the sacred.

TRADITIONAL elders DO NOT believe that any ceremony can be done by anyone who feels like it. It's that same caution and respect for the sacred. Yet these FRAUDULENT operators will let anyone do their inaccurate version of a ceremony if they have the money. Vision quests, for example, are intended for young boys age 12 to 14, but boys don't have much money, so these FRAUDULENT operators sell "quests" for hundreds or thousands to mostly middle-aged men and women.

There is also the matter of telling people they can be shamans and charging them for it. If you were interested in Judaism, would you pay money to someone who said he could make you a rabbi in just one weekend seminar? If someone did this and then claimed Jewish objections were foolish, we would recognize he was anti-Semitic. Think about the lack of respect these operators show to native people and beliefs, and to their own followers, by defrauding people.

Native people DO NOT use the label "Shaman."

Think also about how it makes it harder for natives and whites to get along when whites have been given an untrue picture of native cultures. We have to learn to get along and we can't do that as long as whites give support to operators who push a fraudulent version of what we are like.

[Lucky Owl]

Hallo Kathryn  :)

Thank you for introducing yourself.

Have you read the main website and the pinned threads in all the sections of the forum?

Yes I did very carefully!

You wrote, "We don't have any knowldege, tradition or ealders." Do you mean no Germanic traditions? Many still live. You have the Eddas, many stories of the ancestors, and small but vital communities that still follow the older ways and have been working for decades to reconstruct what was lost. You have to wade through the fluff and the racists to find it, but it's there. The Germanic and Northern traditions have far more survivals than most other Europeans.

Yes - that's right.
Well, we have - as you said- reconstructet traditions but no unbroken ones.

What you will hopefully learn here is that the traditional, earth-honouring ways that survive - whether Native American or European - are based in family and community. These ways are communal, not something you can learn in workshops, books or the Internet. And the Native American ways are only for Native Americans. You have to be born to it. There are plenty of frauds who will take your money to tell you otherwise, but you will probably find them exposed here for what they really are.

Oh please don't get me wrong :)
I wether feel like a native nor want to be one.
I just want to learn bout what is going on...
who are the frauds in your sight and why do you call them like that.
how to recognize those people...

To become a true picture.
I feel that this board ist a good place to learn about.


Best wishes
Lucky Owl

[Ingeborg]

Lucky Owl, since you made your e-mail address visible, I did a google search.
It seems that in July 2014, you were promoting and advertising a 'ceremony' done by a so-called shamanic practitioner from Switzerland by the name of Adrian Osswald:

http://www.actioner.de/veranstaltungen-archiv/921581/weisse-eule-ritual-in-d-37073-gottingen

Thursday, July 17, 2014, from 6 pm
2 participants
July 17, 2014, organised by Simone L...., information and bookings only via simone.l.... @ yahoo dot com, tel. 0153 – 4151xxx

General information on the White Owl Ritual:  http://www.schamanentum.ch/636/48701.html

From Osswald's site, it is apparent that he claims a – meanwhile deceased – Siberian shaman for his teacher, as well as having done various seminars with FSS USA, FSS Europe, and Carlo Zumstein.

Another event presenting the same ritual was organised by Marcel and Sabrina Dengel in Austria, on whom we have got a thread already since they were promoting a shame-on from the Crow tribe and organised seminars and a summer camp with him:

http://www.schamanentum.ch/6501.html

Tour 2 (November)

11.11.07 um 11.11 Uhr beim Berghaus Zimba auf dem Hochplateau Tschengla, Österreich, organisiert von Marcel und Sabrina Dengel, Trafo, 6714 Nüziders, Email: seminarhaus@trafo.xxx, Tel: 0676-6641xxxx

The Dengels maintain a Newage seminar house in Austria, sell indigenous ceremonies, exploit indigenous cultures, and mix indigenous spirituality with various other traditions. We got a thread on them: http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=4183.0

Osswald's list of links consists of various FSS links plus a few others:

http://www.schamanentum.ch/699/720.html

Schamanismus

Foundation for Shamanic Studies Europa
FSS Michael HarnerFoundation for Living Shamanism and Spirituality - FLSS / C. Zumstein Seminare 
Sandra Ingerman
Der Flug des Kondor
Seminarhaus Trafo Vorarlberg
Ursa Major
Schamanismus TV
Schamanca

Schamanische Foren
Kondor Forum

The site ,,The Flight of the Condor" as well as the ,,Condor Forum" belong to a person named Stefan Klemenc who had joined NAFPS briefly several years ago pretending he meant to prevent indigenous cultures from being exploited by Euros – cf here: http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=1448.0 .

I now wonder what it is you expect to learn here.

[Lucky Owl]

Dear Ingeborg,

wow respect you found something bout me in the Internet^^
That's not very easy.
I don't have a website, never ever had and don't intend to create,
I never joined Facebook or similar boards and abhor every kind of showmanship.

I prefer human to human meeting and live my life in the "real world" not in the Internet.

What I expect to learn on this board?

As I said before:
I just want to learn bout what is going on...
who are the frauds in your sight and why do you call them like that.
how to recognize those people...

As it's seems to be imtportant for you:
Yes I invitet Adrian Osswald to my town.
He didn't want any money for his ceremony, I even didn't do any advertising for that event.
Only invited people I know personally.

You won't find anything else about me, cause I'm not part of the
seminar-workshop-mania.
I prefer the silence.

Greetings Lucky Owl

[earthw7]

I find that people are always looking for peace in their lives and they look
everywhere but within themselves. This site is a place where we can do research on
people to see what people are saying or doing is true.  Because People take advantage
of people who are not centered. The truth has always been inside a person not in another culture

[Lucky Owl]

Truth...
Well, nothing left to say.

[Defend the Sacred]

I don't have a website, never ever had and don't intend to create,
...
I even didn't do any advertising for that event.
Only invited people I know personally.

Here is the translation of what Ingeborg linked above. It is a public advertisement, with you as the "exclusive" contact and organizer.

Do you know the word "gaslighting"?

[Ingeborg]

It's always a risk to come up with remarks like ,,You won't find anything else". There is more to find.
You seem to be rather interested in not having to read too much in the way of ,,bad news". At least in 2009, you were frequenting a respective project in Germany:  http://www.tageschance.de/index.php/innovatives?start=90
In the comment, you recommend another ,,positive news" project in English language, www positivenews org uk . You also posted another mail addy you use(d), AraXara at web de.

Both platforms seem to be quite popular with Nuagers. Small wonder, since they do not harass their readers with bad-vibe news about catastrophes or poverty in the world but present them with some fluffy love-and-light garbage how everything was so enlightened and that everything was excellent in the best of all worlds (and yes, this isn't any recent development or else I wouldn't be able to use a quote by Voltaire here...). You preference for these platforms also tells us something about yourself.

As it's seems to be imtportant for you:

With this phrase, you mean to shrug off and devalue what I found regarding your connection to a seller of indigenous ceremony and your involvement with the selling of these ceremonies. That won't work. It's not about me as a person being interested in this – it's of interest for all of us here to know that someone who joins the forum claiming they wanted to learn is connected to a person who learnt from a well-known and established fraud and exploiter of indigenous cultures, became a seller of ceremony himself, and cooperates with numerous other fake shamans and exploiters of indigenous spirituality.

I even provided links for you to do some further reading, one of them to a German-language article, but probably you were not interested in that.

Yes I invitet Adrian Osswald to my town.
He didn't want any money for his ceremony, I even didn't do any advertising for that event.
Only invited people I know personally.

This is a bit of a contradiction to your claim not to be part of the seminar-going crew. Osswald is a student of Michael Harner and his FSS, he took seminars with both FSS US and FSS Europe – and these people are all about seminars. That's what they make a living from. They are also about making shamans and more shamans, and about making other people make more shamans, too. They are about misrepresenting and exploiting indigenous cultures for their own profit.

And I did notice that Osswald claims he will not charge for the ceremony. However, he still wants money to cover his traveling expenses etc. So the ceremonies he does are not free of charge for the participants. But what is far more important: his ceremonies were stolen from indigenous cultures in the very first place, they were expropriated, and redefined and adjusted to match the demands of a Euro clientele.

In fact, Osswald's name pops up at a multitude of Nuage websites in Switzerland, Austria, and Germany, and he's doing ceremony all over the place. He is also selling 'spiritual holidays' in Greece. He sells books on his ceremony selling. He cooperates with numerous sellers of indigenous ceremonies.

Your point of only having invited persons you personally knew is also not making much of a difference. The ceremony done was still an exploitation of indigenous cultures, performed by a fake shaman who took seminars with a fraud selling spirituality and ceremonies belonging to indigenous nations. In contrast to indigenous persons having to undergo instructions which lasts years and even decades, Harner's FSS claims Euros will pick up his 'core shamanism" with a few weekend seminars at substantial fees. The idea that Euros 'of course' will be able to learn in a few weekends what takes indigenous persons up to decades to master also betrays racist concepts and a firm belief in white superiority.

Oh and BTW: actioner.de happens to be a German-language platform for the advertisement of all kinds of events. So you did not advertise? Technically speaking, you may not have advertised to attract more participants for the particular ceremony you organised, but you were advertising = promoting Osswald's services. 'Gaslighting' is a good catchword. You will have also heard the German proverb "The fence is worse than the thief".

[Lucky Owl]

I could be an anonymous reader but decided to introduce myself
and tell you an intimate part of my life.

This is my sense to give my respect to you.
So I expect some respect to my openness.

I'm not interested to diskuss my person here.
I'm so very unimportant... just a mother studying trees
and keeping the family alive.
Please I don't feel as important to fill a diskussion on this board.

There are so much more important world events and  people in the world
to spend time and energy on^^


Regards
Lucky Owl

[Laurel]

I could be an anonymous reader but decided to introduce myself
and tell you an intimate part of my life.

This is my sense to give my respect to you.
So I expect some respect to my openness.

Um, no, Lucky Owl. we don't all have to respect you because you deigned to talk to us. And, considering that people had to go dig up your nuager connections, you weren't very open at all, were you?

I'm not interested to diskuss my person here.
I'm so very unimportant... just a mother studying trees
and keeping the family alive.
Please I don't feel as important to fill a diskussion on this board.

Pay no attention to the nuager behind that curtain! Suddenly the very open Lucky Owl doesn't want to be so open, but to talk about trees, as if that were the focus of this board (hint: It isn't.) Because all native Americans are hippie/noble savage tree-huggers, perhaps?

If you don't want to be the topic of a thread, why did you start the thread?

There are so much more important world events and  people in the world
to spend time and energy on^^

There certainly are many bigger frauds to fry, but you're the one who chose to post here. You had to know you were risking being "outed."

[Lucky Owl]

To make this clear:

I don't call myself shaman or use any shaman or nuage-technics.
I don't long for native wisdom or teaching.
I walk on a medicinepath in contact with my own ancestorsand the nature and spirits
sorounding me.

And no - i don't think all natives are happy treehugers.
I just want to express that I prefer connecting to my home nature
and don't intend to buy or sell any sacred.

But if you choose to call me fraud with the background of very little information
of the internet I have to accept this.

Please let me know if you want to kick me out now.
So I won't take a look at your website anymore.


Regards Lucky owl

[earthw7]

i hope you stay to learn
in my culture all information is taken as eduction about yourself,

[Lucky Owl]

Thank you earthw7 !

[Lucky Owl]

First I was little overtaken by the charges in the postings.
In real life I'm open for conversations
but in the internet due to the lack of facial expressions and clear perception of
emotions its's so very difficult to convey what someone has to say.
Very special in senisitve matters with the potential of high emotions.

But after a time of contemplating I want to take up position on some questions of you.
Even if I take the risk that you will call me a real fraud after that.
But if you will do that will be your truth I have to live with.

Chiefly I obtained my spiritual knowldege by the spirits.
I hold an ritual of gratidude to nature and spirits cause I felt so endowed by nature and spirits.
As an "answer" they plunged me in at the deep end.
After a complete breakdown of my mental systems it took one year to take my first lesson by spirits and come back into
the common reality. This happend 14 years ago an I never felt like I want to sell my knowldege. On the contrary I still feel I have to learn so much.

Cause there are no official elders and traditions in my culture I could trust to I started to research for answers among people.
Answers to my experience. Here most people just don't believe in the spiritual realms and are as close as someone only can be.

Germany is a quite tiny country. When you live here after a while and search for answers of your own experience you will have met and been in contact with many people who are frauds in your eyes. Not only in your eyes. I didn't feel comfortable with most of the so called shaman practicers and shamans I met. I participated in one seminar of FSS nearly ten years ago and it felt so incredible lousy to me. I went on to meet people bout 7 years ago who claimed to be the "true shamans" and I participated in one more seminar . But again I saw crap.  One master and 20 people who don't have a clue of anything wanting to become "shamans".

Well, I don't beat a "shamanic drum" like everybody does who was born in the "Core-Shamanism". This is why people sometimes treated me like I can't be a "shaman".... As I didn'nt want to be one, it was ok for me. I took all this people as role models I never ever want to be like.

So I went on knowing what I don't want to be or live like.

I met Adrian Osswald first about 7 years ago and in my eyes he seemed to be so much more authentic like most people I met before. I know that he struggeld for years to live what spirits told him to do.  To create and live the ceremony of the white owl.
As I understand him it wasn't stolen from indigenous culture but given by spirits to him. In the intention to create a ritual born in Middel Europe for Middle- Europeans.

He didn't charge for that. Everybody was allowed to join it. He only begs for donation so he could afford his travelling costs. If more donation were given he uses it as charitable contribution. I even know that most of the times he went out carring alone the costs for his travelling.
So I invited him to my town. That was also bout 6 years ago.
For that event you won't find anything cause there was no advertisement.

In July 2014 i did the second invitation to my town. The advertisement you linked here was from that second invitation.
It was posted by Adrian himself not by me. I don't have any acess or any accounts to websites like that.
By the way the ceremnoy wasn't realized for some reasons.

* * * * *

The link to the "positive news":
Excuse me but it's a hasty conclusion that I wouldn't be interested in the bad in the world.
I spend every day much time on reading different newssites in the Internet about all the bad happening in the world.
And try to be informed on as many backgrounds of lifestyle (production of food, of clothing, of techniks and so on) as possible.

First lesson of spirits to me includes to see myself and the world outside as "nacked" as possible. With merciless light they showed me erverything I wanted to hide for. In the end I'm very glad to that lesson cause I prefer to see the truth.
I detest the warm pinky light cloud nuage people bath inside and make them lose every sense for reality.

This is why I am here today. I want to learn about the background.
I want to be informed about your sight on frauds.  I want to look behind.
Cause here most informations only come from second or third hand.
So it's quite difficult to become a clear picture.
Specially when most people agree on what they are doing...

And it's also not easy when these people claim that they were allowed by natives
to take their ceremonies in our culture.

How can I know whom to trust?
How can I decide who really got in contact with natives who
are nor shame-ons in their tribe?

That's really difficult for someone who grew up in Middle Europe.

What is about people who claim they were told by the spirits to sell workshops or seminars?
There is one opinion that western people only worthship what costs a lot.
This is how some argue why they charge for their rituals.

All I can say is that I always felt it was wrong to charge money for sacred.
I even can't understand. For me it has nothing to do with money.
It's the basic of our life. The basic for craft, healing and healthyness.
For coming together. I never understood how that could be connected with earning money.

So I really hope to learn here more about that.


Greetings Luck Owl