Lucky Owl

[earthw7]

well i grew up in my culture, live on the reservation and know what is right or wrong and i see these people first hand
i know that when dealing with non native i will find that they have some sort of mental break down then start looking
to other cultures to help heal.
if a person is in europe talking about our spiritual ways you know they are a fraud.
None of the tribes have sent anyone to heal europe.
we don't adopt shaman or teach medicine people and sent them out into the world that is a white myth,

[Lime Tree]

I registered hier cause I want to learn more about the topics being discussed here.

Basically, this is not a website to give information or support in case of life changing experiences or contact with nature or spirits.
Sorry to be blunt, but that is how it is. Some members may know about these things, but they will refuse to bring information out in the open. For good reasons.
So again, I am blunt, but I hope to protect you from expecting things different from what you can get here.

You say that this started with an event 14 years ago - so by now, you must have gathered quite some knowledge and experience. No wonder, that the average teacher of workshop-shamanism cannot help you. Few of them were thrown by life into an interest in 'shamanism'.
Do you know the autobiography of C.G. Jung? He had several life changing events, and had to struggle hard to integrate them. In German it is called "Erinnerungen, Träume, Gedanken".

You say, that an other life changing event was the birth of you daughter, 10 years ago.
I can relate to that. Before my wife got pregnant, I wanted to change the world. And I had also the vague idea that I had been abducted by aliens as a child. When my wife was pregnant, 'fighting for a better world' took the form of being a father and and attentive husband. And I never again had the idea of having been abducted, in the 20 years since then.

Best wishes

[Lucky Owl]

if a person is in europe talking about our spiritual ways you know they are a fraud.
None of the tribes have sent anyone to heal europe.
we don't adopt shaman or teach medicine people and sent them out into the world that is a white myth,

That's nearly unbelievable cause so many claim to be....
poh... tough stuff!
well, no mental-breakdown
My mental system were broken down by spirits to teach me^^
That experience didn' t lead me to other cultures but to myself.

Basically, this is not a website to give information or support in case of life changing experiences or contact with nature or spirits.
Sorry to be blunt, but that is how it is. Some members may know about these things, but they will refuse to bring information out in the open. For good reasons.
So again, I am blunt, but I hope to protect you from expecting things different from what you can get here.

Oh no... I don't look for support- I walk on my own feet!
My ancestors and spirits cary me well.
I just wanted to tell a little bit.

With topis being discussed here I simply mention the topics on this board.
About newagers and frauds.
About cultural sell.

You say that this started with an event 14 years ago - so by now, you must have gathered quite some knowledge and experience. No wonder, that the average teacher of workshop-shamanism cannot help you. Few of them were thrown by life into an interest in 'shamanism'.
Do you know the autobiography of C.G. Jung? He had several life changing events, and had to struggle hard to integrate them. In German it is called "Erinnerungen, Träume, Gedanken".

You say, that an other life changing event was the birth of you daughter, 10 years ago.
I can relate to that. Before my wife got pregnant, I wanted to change the world. And I had also the vague idea that I had been abducted by aliens as a child. When my wife was pregnant, 'fighting for a better world' took the form of being a father and and attentive husband. And I never again had the idea of having been abducted, in the 20 years since then.

Best wishes

Obviously I know C.G. Jung but haven't read the autobiographie yet, maybe I can read someday when I have space for it.
I don't go conform with all being teached in psychologie...
Pychologie in my opinion decribes a lot but there is a lack of the spiritual realm, that in actual fact sometimes lead to so called "psychological problems".


And yes... children are so very grounding 
Thank you for posting

Greetings Lucky Owl

[Defend the Sacred]

That's nearly unbelievable cause so many claim to be....

What EarthW7 is telling you is true.

They claim to be authentic so they can take your money. Or feed their egos. Or get sex and adoration from ignorant, hurting people who are desperate for help.

My mental system were broken down by spirits to teach me^^
That experience didn' t lead me to other cultures but to myself.

This is a Harner, "core shamanism" idea, that he misappropriated and misinterpreted, then misrepresented by claiming all cultures where people interact with the spirits have "shamans" who have to go through a ritual dismemberment and "shamanic crisis" in order to be reborn as a "shaman." Just by going into your search with this belief, you are participating in a falsehood and misappropriated, false system. By going into these experiences with this belief, people predispose themselves to imagine particular things. And then they say they know it was real because it's what others have also reported. It's like UFO Alien abduction theories - people see what they expect to see, then interpret it based on their belief system. The way you write about this shows you have internalized false beliefs about Native cultures from the shameons.

I'm sorry if this sounds harsh, but you really don't seem to understand.

By misrepresenting conditions he is not qualified to diagnose, Harner is to blame for many people with real mental illnesses not getting the help they need. And while many privileged white people like Jung, he is also to blame for cultural degradation, by reducing all cultures' religious figures to mere "archetypes" and thoughtforms. He paved the way for a lot of misappropriation under the banner of "universalism."

There are real Elders. But you won't find them in the crowd you run with. By participating in appropriative, nuage, pay-to-pray and saying the things you are saying, people aren't going to trust you.

Again, I know this probably sounds mean to you, but you've already misrepresented yourself here and callously dismissed the work we do to protect people from the frauds you promote, while clearly trying to find someone to make an exception for you and give a lying stranger cultural knowledge. Again, read the forum.

[Lucky Owl]

Kathryn,

I feel that you are older than me and have more experience, so I don't feel in the position to order you.
I can see you really take a stand for the purpose.
And I guess you do a good job!
I have no problem with people sounding harsh or mean in the case they defense truth.

But I beg you to really read my postings before putting bad experience over my person.
Some of your charges would dissolve if you'd read carefully.

e.g. if you'd read that I met the Core-Shamanism  4 or 5 years after my life changing experience.
So I couldn't have gone with expectations into my first contact with spirits.
But at first sight the Core-Shamanism sounded to me like they had a clou.
I first in my life heard about that ever - I was quote young when that happend.
So it sounded like the so called "Shamanism" could give answers to me.
But then I was really disgusted by this crowd  Wannabe-natives
But sometimes somone has to step into a pile of shit to realize the smell.

That was never my way!
I also don't go to any nuage-sessions or pray -to -prays
I'm more a kind of hermit.

At the same time regarding to your words a thinking prozess started.
It's sadly true that I accustomed to some believings that were importet and are used
by many people.

Again here's the real intention of being here.
Learning about that.
My learning already startet and I'm ready to challenge everything i heard before.
So I start to read the forum intensiv now.

It makes me really sad to realize that theres is so much more shit outside than I considered.
And I start to feel sad and be embarassed about the cultural robbery so many people do
so very self-evident.


One more sentence to C.G. Jung

And while many privileged white people like Jung, he is also to blame for cultural degradation, by reducing all cultures' religious figures to mere "archetypes" and thoughtforms. He paved the way for a lot of misappropriation under the banner of "universalism."

As I said i don't go conform with all being teached in psychologie cause of the lack of the spiritual realm.


Greetings
Lucky Owl