Frauds in the UK

[TimberlineWarrior]

I was invited to this forum after voicing an opinion of frauds and ceremony thiefs, I see a lot of that here in the UK.
Heres one example;
_http://www.sacred-arts.co.uk/sweat_lodges.htm_
(http://www.sacred-arts.co.uk/sweat_lodges.htm)

Sweat lodges £30 ($55) per head for up to 15 people or host your  own and
recieve 15% commision. Thats taking selling to a new  level.

I have looked briefly at some I knew of and they're wising up and  taking
off
connections to Native Americans. One place even reckons that sweat
lodges/visions quests were indigineous to Europe !!!!!!!   lolol

^. .^

[180IQ]

And you also have Roy "Littlesun" with his "teachings of the oneheart" and "Hopi medicine wheels". He is frequently in the Glastonbury area and I've been told has an enormous cult following there.

[TimberlineWarrior]

I have traced the organisation representing Roy Littlesun and mailed them this.......


info@soliluna.net

Info please on Roy Littlesun

You claim that Roy Littlesun is a Hopi Elder. Please can you verify this with documented proof. I have been contacted by represantatives of the Hopi Nation and been asked to follow this matter and report to them on this mans claims and selling of ceremonies  which they feel are derogatory to the Hopi Nation and against the true principles and represantations of themselves.
Failure to either provide said proof or cease in thse claims and practices will result in further action.

Regards

[educatedindian]

Glad to have you here TW. A couple of us will actually be on a speaking tour of Europe this summer including Britain. We'd be glad to hear about which frauds are the worst and the most pervasive over there. And if you're able to get people to quit claiming these are Native ceremonies, or to quit abusing Native ceremonies, we're glad to hear it.

That claim about sweatlodges is one of the most common, said by lots of people who cant distinguish between a sauna with no spiritual aspect and sweatlodges with very different rituals and meanings attached.

We also have a lot of information on Roy Steevensz ("Littlesun") at www.nafps.net. And Pat, our site builder, knows quite a bit about him.

[180IQ]

From the Soliluna.net site:

Universal Reorientation with Roy Littlesun

If your visit to Glastonbury includes a Wednesday evening, you can have the privilege of meeting Roy Littlesun, Hopi messenger and beloved elder. From 6 to 9 pm he offers an exquisite, balanced meal whilst presenting profound universal teachings around his medicine wheel. We highly recommend joining this ever-changing circle in a barn at the centre of the Glastonbury Zodiac.

BARF!

[Barnaby_McEwan]

Hello TW

I'm also in the UK (see my new member intro). Do you mind saying whereabouts you are?

[elija van den berg]

there is also Leo Rutherfords eagles wing for shamanic studies in london, the Sacred hoop magazine with a whole slew of posers  and David berry an 'apprentice' of sun bear
email me for more info, i have been involved in activism since 1973
elija
Vcornelia@aol.com

[Robin Whitlock]

I am aware that Roy Littlesun spends quite a bit of time out at Caroline Barry's field just outside Butleigh near Glastonbury. Unfortunately, my new girlfriend (like quite a few people in Glastonbury I gather) is quite enamoured of him.

My girlfriend, Caroline, vaguely mentioned the possibility of us going out to this place for an evening party (to celebrate the passing of planning permission for her straw bale house), so there's a chance I might get to meet the guy.

If I do, how should I approach him and what should I say?

I think Caroline said that he's living at Greinton, which is another small village on the Taunton road.

I'd be quite into keeping an eye on Mr Littlesun seeing that he's living so close.

Robin the Druid UK

[180IQ]

Whatever you ask and he answers (or doesn't, per his usual avoidance of any direct questions) you should record on tape if at all possible, or take notes on the spot, word-for-word.

I'm sure the folks here will come up with some good questions. Here are a couple I would ask:

Why do you think you are commissioned to represent the Hopi?

One woman who supported you for 16 years is now homeless and close to death due to your irresponsibilty, are you pleased to know that soon she won't be around to tell others the truth about your character?

[Barnaby_McEwan]

I appreciate the information about Steevensz, but I'm a little concerned about how your posts will look to his followers when they are made aware of them, which will probably happen sooner or later. If anyone's helped you get information on him, they may unfairly catch the vitriol that will come your way when his followers find out you oppose him, so I suggest you edit your post to remove identifying info.

Expect "You are in league with Evil Powers which want to thwart the Hopi Mission Of Peace and stop the world Uniting With One Heart", that kind of nonsense.

[jergonsacha]

There is an disturbing new trend in the UK: plastic shamans are wising up to the fact that their suspect 'lineages' are under scrutiny and unfavourable comment costs them money as they are unmasked as frauds and fewer punters attend their bogus workshops and pseudo-ceremonies.

How to get around this? Simple! You just make up a lineage of your own that no-one else has ever heard of despite extensive research and appoint yourself the 'Master' of this "arcane knowledge"! See my post on SIMON BUXTON and under CORE SHAMANISM.

This, to me, is even more worrying than posing as a 'shaman'. At least the posers can be unmasked - but how do you prove that a fictional form of shamanism (Buxton's ridiculous sounding 'Bee Shamanism') is made up to make its self-important founder sound like a guru and earn a few bucks? Since the entire system is invented frauds like Buxton can say almost anything and get away with it, claiming - as he does - that the tradition has remained hidden for centuries and he is only now bringing it to light as the reigning 'Bee Master' (sic) and tribe leader.

I think this demands further investigation.

[jergonsacha]

Another overclaiming idiot. This one says he can cure "incurable diseases"!
http://www.azizshamanism.com/

[Barnaby_McEwan]

There is an disturbing new trend in the UK: plastic shamans are wising up to the fact that their suspect 'lineages' are under scrutiny and unfavourable comment costs them money as they are unmasked as frauds and fewer punters attend their bogus workshops and pseudo-ceremonies.

Is there any evidence that that's happening? I don't have a nationwide picture but I don't see it happening. Yet.

...how do you prove that a fictional form of shamanism (Buxton's ridiculous sounding 'Bee Shamanism') is made up to make its self-important founder sound like a guru and earn a few bucks? Since the entire system is invented frauds like Buxton can say almost anything and get away with it...

You can't prove a negative. I think the way to deal with this problem is to get people thinking critically about the idea of shamanism and in general, so that more people understand that the burden of proof is on the people who make these wacky claims. That way I think we'll reduce the number of available patsies, thus increasing the number of 'shamans' who will find it necessary to get proper jobs.

[questions_questions]

Another overclaiming idiot. This one says he can cure "incurable diseases"!
http://www.azizshamanism.com/

Peter Aziz is known not only in the UK for his ridiculous practices but worldwide - he practices some strange and rather ridiculous version of home grown shamanism, a mix of haitian vodou, celtic (harner) core shamanism and some sort of fairy shamanism - all nicely mixed in! His so called "vodou teacher" is already know all around the world for her fraudulent practices...

The more we talk about frauds, the more people seam to take an interest in those frauds that are actually exposed to the public! This is something I will never understand! It’s as if the blind are bonding with the dumb! Some no matter how many times you unmask a fraud, there will always be someone following them – even if its just for the reason “to prove you wrong??? and to show that that poor accused soul is “not that bad???…!

Aziz is also associated with Ross Heaven….they both hold the same “lineage??? in Haitian Vodou, meaning that both are initiated by the same fraud!

Heaven has turned against his vodou initiator some years back but still claims to be a valid initiate of Haitian Vodou! All this makes little sense to me! Some people don’t wanna wake up…they like to remain blind and ignorant!

[Jill]

Peter Aziz is a published author in the UK, as well as a 'spiritual healer' and runs  'Shamanic' courses that some people of my aquaintance have attended and enjoyed. His 'Shamanism' does not appear to have any connection to NA Traditions, but is a mishmash of things.

A couple of years ago he was featured on British TV as a Healer, and the result of the programme was to make him look very silly. Job done, I would say.

He does charge outrageous amounts for his courses, but as long as the British people believe they can buy spirituality, it will continue.

Here in Britain, people only respect things they have to pay through the nose for. I feel it is akin to the thought that if it's expensive it must be the best, Gullible people will always be sheep ready for shearing. Frauds will always find a welcome in Britain.

It's not that the British public can't be taught this, more the fact that they Won't!

Sorry to come across as cynical, but I am.

Cheers, Jill