Introduction and a warning to Fake Shawnee Groups

[E.P. Grondine]

First off, I'd like to thank whoever posted the news of Jerry Pope's passing.

That still leaves the recovery of assets from his heirs to be done.

keely, the legal documents concerning Popes exposure and the URB are available for public view in Bellefontaine.
Your labeling the East of the River as "split offs" is not accurate.
Your claim that "Dark Rain" Thom heads the East of the River is not accurate either.

Now I want to speak personally.
First off, on the French Canadian side of my family Anne Huronne's marriage into the Hamelins and the
foundation of the Hamelin dit Grondine family was known to me and all my other relatives on my father's side.
I never gave mixed ancestry much thought.

I only learned about my mother's side after she had passed.
And I only learned what had happened back int the 1750's by two day's reading in the History Room ( which no longer exists) in the Library at Cumberland, Maryland.

While you may have problems with this,
it looks to me like it was as popular and fashionable to have Native ancestry
as it was to have African American ancestry,
up until the nations got casinos.

Thus your constantly taking a census declaration of "white" made long ago as absolute proof of No native ancestry is pretty questionable.

You and others speak about the "removal" as though it only happened in the 1830's,
when in fact in began in the 1680's for the Shawnee.
Your knowledge of the Shawnee at the salt springs in southern Illinois is non-existent.

Asa far as Brian Darst's family goes, my thinking is that if any person's right to represent is recognized by the leaders of that nation,
and that nation is not your own,
my thinking that while you may question their decision, you must recognize it.
 

[E.P. Grondine]

Hi Ben -

I think your anger is mis-directed.

In my opinion, you should get together with Okima Wallace and whoever is leading the Absentee after Governor George and petition  the Ohio Historical Society to hold Ceremony proper at any of "their" sites and watch what happens.

For that matter, you might join with Chief Wallace in her request to the Ohio Historical Society for the return of the remains of known historical (recent) Shawnee.
If you spoke with her about her struggle with this, you would learn a lot.

Your attack with keely on Jack Blosser and his actions over the last 25 years is beyond the "pales".

[Diana]

@ EP Groundin, first off let's get one thing straight, YOU ARE NOT INDIAN, so knock that shit off right now! Second, I don't think I like your tone in your reply to Mr. Ben Barnes. I don't know Mr. Barnes nor have I ever met him, but he is an actual citizen of the Shawnee Tribe in Oklahoma and most likely knows his Tribe's history, culture and people. Unlike you or the disgusting white frauds at Fort Ancient, Serpent mound Festival or any other of the white fake ass Ohio culture clubs. (I will not call them Tribes) Mr. Barnes is an actual Shawnee Indian.
 
How dare you dictate what his people can and cannot do or take offense to, such as the Shawnee Green Corn ceremony or their powwows. This is Mr. Barne's people not yours or those white frauds in Ohio. He has every right to be offened and digusted with what you and these white frauds are doing, further more why are you a white person  telling an actual Shaneew Indian to humble himself?? Also why are you responding to Keely Dennison who has not posted here since 2006? Or other posts from 2011. WTF! 

I've looked onto this Serpent mound Festival you're speaking at and it is just as disgusting as the Fort Ancient debacle. I noticed that The Ohio Historical Society is not letting the festival on the Serpent mound grounds and the festival is down the road a Soaring Eagle lodge. This festival much like the Fort Ancient debacle  has the usual suspects. Weird looking white people with the creepy bad dye jobs and insulting Indian names.They even manage to get an actual Zuni Indian who's a nut job that believes in UFO's, star seeds and the usual whacko new age shit.

I'm not a moderator EP, but I think your white ass has warn out your welcome here. Please quit using NAFPS for your own agenda of defending fake culture clubs and their harmful ways.

 

 

 

Diana

[Diana]

Forgot to post the link to EP's fraud festival. Have a look it's as hilarious as that Fort Ancient festival.

http://www.serpentmound.org/festival.html


Diana

[AClockworkWhite]

I'm not a moderator EP, but I think your white ass has warn out your welcome here. Please quit using NAFPS for your own agenda of defending fake culture clubs and their harmful ways.

 

 

 

Diana

@ EP GRONDINE...
I'm just going to bluntly say here that this^ is a perfectly concise assessment of the sentiments that I and several others here share.
The presumption of a person who did not grow up in a tribal community/culture to condescend to an ACTUAL tribal member (A CHIEF, no less!!!) is beyond reprehensible. This superiority theme of "I know better than the Indians themselves about what's best" is well known to the members of the community here and you owe Mr. Barnes a full apology. I don't give a DAMN how many books you've written, your personal behavior towards this man, his Tribe, and his concerns about fraudulent ceremonies being performed is one of the countless reasons this forum exists. However, I fully expect you to double down on the condescension instead of taking the honorable route, just so everyone sees I'm calling it now. I have a feeling, from reading your posts so far here and in other areas of this site, that you're well-versed in such shenanigans.

[earthw7]

I just looked at the serpent mound festival why would they allow such a thing OH MY GOD
is all i can say

[E.P. Grondine]

Well, good morning, all -

A little question.
Are any of you members of any Shawnee band?

Let me make my biases clear.
I resent the cultural genocide of the Shawnee that is taking place.
I resent the Ohio Historical Society's efforts in this regard.
I resent other nations efforts to claim the remains of Shawnee ceremonial centers.
I resent those who attempt to create imaginary histories for the Shawnee.

I resent archaeologists more interested in their careers than public service.

There are people of descent back east.
They are a resource for frauds.
As time progresses, other nations will face these problems.
The solution I see for the Shawnee is the creation of a
Shawneee National Organization, and a Ahawnee National Organization.

I suppose one at a time.

Ben Barnes is a sub-chief of one of the remaining Shawnee bands.
There are other full chiefs, I've met them.
There are many people in the other bands.
I approve fully the choice of removing "loyal" from that bands name,
but to declare themselves THE Shawnee is questionable.

keely is still active, and her information is not always correct.

The attack on Jack Blosser, the Fort Ancient Celebration,
and the Dayton Historical Society is beyond the "pales".

[E.P. Grondine]

As far as the summer solstice event at Serpent Mound goes,
it is not my event.

I simply go there and present native history as best as I can.
It is all fine and well to exchange information on frauds on a bbs,
and the information is very useful.

Now try to imagine yourself going to their events and speaking things to them and their followers that they do not wish to hear. Particularly when those things threaten both their incomes and their view of themselves, and interferes with their use of their followers, and their attempts to gain new ones.

There are words, and then there are actions.

As far as the Ohio Historical Society goes,
you will note that they did not invite Bill Romaine to speak,
an archeologist who knows far more about the Serpent than Brad Lepper.
(You may find a summary of his excavation report online.)

No one in the Ohio Historical Society has ever studied
the Five Nations attack on the Shawnee in Ohio during the 1680's,
and you will not hear them speak about he war between the Province of Pennsylvania and the Province of Virginia over the Ohio.

They do their best to suppress information on the relation between
Late Fort Ancient Culture and known contact era Shawnee sites.

They pretend to interest in Native America,
but their primary interest is their careers;
and not service to the people of Ohio, who fund their operations.

[E.P. Grondine]

If you go back and look at what I said to sub-chief Ben Barnes,
I told him that in my view he had no right to instruct the Eastern and Absentee Bands about what they could and could not do.

As far as my "white ass" goes, if reminding you of the racism which used to exist offends you, so be it.

I am who I am, which is mixed, and am comfortable with it now.

[Defend the Sacred]

As far as my "white ass" goes, if reminding you of the racism which used to exist offends you, so be it.

"Used to exist"? What are you talking about? Racism still exists, and NDNs here are pointing out the ways you're using white privilege and behaving in a rather racist manner by thinking you're better-qualified to speak on NDN issues than are NDNs themselves.

Our Native members and their families deal with racism and cultural preservation every day of their lives. It's not something they can just put down and walk away from, or drop in at a nuage festival and speak to without being attacked and/or tokenized. Those of us with Native family members or heritage who pass as white (or ARE white) can empathize, we can experience some of it when attacks directed at them splatter us as well. But it's not the same.  It's technically possible for us to walk away and take a break. Even if we feel it's something we could never live with doing, we still have that option and, deep down, we know it. This means we get to choose our level of investment, risk and exposure; that is privilege. And that privilege means we live with less stress and danger than NDNS who don't pass as white, and that we have the ugly luxury of forgetting that we even have that privilege.

It's also rather insulting for you to imply that you are the only ally going to confront frauds in person. This is another red flag that you're not reading the board. We also don't know if you're actually confronting fraud. In my experience, those of us who actually go to these things and confront the frauds in person wind up kicked out and banned by the white organizers. So I have to wonder what you're teaching "about NDNs" at these nuage festivals that the nuagers are happy to keep having you back.

[Defend the Sacred]

I just looked at the serpent mound festival why would they allow such a thing OH MY GOD
is all i can say

Horrible stuff. A bunch of white people doing "American Indian" drumming and carving pipestone... This needs to be stopped, not participated in.

[Epiphany]

EP, you are aggressively lecturing. Time to step back - read, listen, learn, then eventually participate. Your possible distant heritage and your health challenges do not excuse you.

[AClockworkWhite]

I see where the Shawnees are going to DC on business to the NMAI today... I wonder why EP is not among them?

[E.P. Grondine]

EP, you are aggressively lecturing. Time to step back - read, listen, learn, then eventually participate. Your possible distant heritage and your health challenges do not excuse you.

Hi Piff -

I like your logo - a raven, if I am not mistaken.

I choose my words carefully, and it upsets me when I see other words put in my mouth for their own purposes.

Thank you for your council; in the future I will try to stop these bad feelings from intruding.

I am what is left of a journalist and historian.

As a historian, I always held myself to the standard of passing on what was passed on by those responsible for sharing it, and keeping my understanding of it separate, and identified it clearly as being my understanding of what was passed on.

Following this course, I now always check those passings on and understandings with those currently responsible for tribal histories.

That is the only duty which I have, and it extends not only to the Shawnee, but to other nations as well. I perform it as best as I can.

As a former journalist, I take pokvano seriously.

Having watched many nu-age frauds for some years now, I note that you can deal with them one at a time, and that will be exhausting, or you can take them on once and for all.

I hope that the Shawnee Bands will follow the Cherokee example, and form a Shawnee National Organization, and then a Shawnee National Ancestry Organization.

I hope that the Cherokee National Organization will form a Cherokee National
Ancestry Organization.

My thinking is that as time progresses, every nation will face these problems, as well as other problems involved in spanning the two worlds.

I watch the Siouxian peoples dealing with the same problems,
and right now the nu-agers in the Black Hills.

If anyone else has any ideas on a more lasting and peaceful fix to the conmen who work these nu-age frauds, please share them.

Now instead of replying to the insults, here's a little humor:

https://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/2013/05/25/marty-two-bulls-late-late-late-one-night-serpent-mound

and of course, in addition to these seriously confused people you have very bad archaeologists writing about imaginary peoples.

Since my words are being represented by others here, I will now sit back on my fully 1/8 Shawnee ass and watch what happens next.

[AClockworkWhite]

Yeah, that's exactly what you need to try and diffuse a situation you created with your condescension. Humor. So timely and appropriate. Then try and associate, then deflect, distract, anything but truly deal with what's caused several people to be upset with you over this.