Introduction and a warning to Fake Shawnee Groups

[AClockworkWhite]

1/8th... LOL!!!

[E.P. Grondine]

1/8th... LOL!!!

with diabetes and stroke, no less.

May you have problems with your great grand children.

[E.P. Grondine]

I stand by what I said to sub-chief Barnes -  They are the "White Oak Band", and not THE Shawnee. The Eastern Band and the Absentee Band are also parts of THE Shawnee, as are the Canadian Shawnee among the Kettle Point Ojibwe.

I advise all of you to not attack Jack Blosser, or the Fort Ancient Celebration.
Please attend the event and meet him first.

keely, please get your facts completely straight.

[Defend the Sacred]

1/8th... LOL!!!

with diabetes and stroke, no less.

May you have problems with your great grand children.

So now you're cursing people? Unacceptable.

[AClockworkWhite]

Dig this- the Shawnee Culture and History Festival at the NMAI in DC (all over Facebook!) and not one pic of EP Grondine anywhere in the crowd. But he's totally a Shawnee historian, right?

[Keely]

EP Grondine, when are you willing to prove my facts as incorrect?

Jack Blosser is a FRAUD! He is not Indian at all! I can prove it!

You don't know crap about the Shawnee people. You are not Shawnee, you are not even Indian!

I make you a deal, prove Jack Blosser is "real Shawnee" and I will stop attacking him... I prove he is a real fraud and not Shawnee at all, you leave this forum.

[Keely]

From EP Grondine

"I will have to disagree with both your and Keely Dennison's assessment of the East of the River."

I personally don't care if you agree with me or not... I know what I am talking about, you obviously don't! More so, Claudia Thom's family has written letters to me to tell me I AM RIGHT! They don't know why she pretends to be Shawnee, her family has her genealogy on the internet.

Now, step up to the plate, and produce any document that is from historical records from the US Federal Census stating these people in the EoR are in fact, Indian... that their families are in the records listing themselves as Indian...

[Keely]

EP Grondine wrote "I find your new claim of the Loyal band as being THE "Shawnee" offensive.  There are also Shawnee in the Eastern Band, the Absentee Band, "

We people, of the THREE federally recognized tribe, do not care what offends you! We are recognized Nations, and you are??? Oh snap, I remember, thinking that fakes are the "real thing". Comments you make such as above is what shows your true ignorance about Indian tribes, mostly about Shawnee people.

You are not of our people, so what we call ourselves is quite frankly, none of your business.

[Keely]

Mr. and Mrs. Edmund Grondine announce the birth of a son at Mercy Hospital. The mother is the former Miss Rose Adams. From a July 1952 newspaper

[Keely]

For E.P. Grondine:

Charles P. Adams of Old Town, a retired employee of the Taylor Tinplate Mill... (jumping to the important information) he was the husband of the late Bertha Edith Twigg Adams, he was the son of the late John Quincy and Malinda Carder Adams.

He had three sons and six daughters, one of the daughters named is Rose Grondine, Washington, D.C.

Oh snap, weren't you born in Washington, D.C. Edmund?

Oh wait, I forgot, I am not good at this researching stuff, specially compared to a "historical expert" such as yourself, right??

[benbarnes]

Hello Ben -

These are my views, and I speak for no one else here.

I appreciate your effort, but I believe that both the Eastern and the Absentee have perfect right to conduct green corn if they wish.
First, Mr. Grondine, there is only one place on the planet that a Shawnee Green Corn can be done. You completely lack any knowledge as to what those components are. It belongs to us and us alone. - BJB

While I can appreciate your effort, I find your new claim of the Loyal band as being THE "Shawnee" offensive.  There are also Shawnee in the Eastern Band, the Absentee Band, and in refuge among the Ojibwe of Kettle Point.  (These last have been petitioning for many years for separate Canadian federal recognition).
You find it offensive? Oh, sorry I trouble your outsider sensibilities. The Shawnee Tribe as it exists today is comprised of Dawes Roll and Wallace Roll descendants of the Kansas, aka "Loyal" Shawnee. That group was the largest of the groups. It was made up of those removed from the two Ohio reserves at HogCreek and Wapakoneta. It also contained the Black Bob group of shawnees that fled to Missouri and Arkansas. Do you research Mr. Grondine. Others have and concluded the same as I have have published in peer reviewed fashion, I challenge your scholarship to meet that standard.

In my view, I would prefer the formation of a "Shawnee Nation" consisting of an Eastern Band, Absentee Band, WHITE OAK BAND, and the Canadian Band. Of course that would require you to humble yourself enough to meet with the other leaders and speak with them as equals.
There never was a "Shawnee Nation". The villages were scattered across 20+ states at any given time. They were connected through language, beliefs and religion, but not in Government. The tribal towns were autonomous and made there own decisions and allied with whom that group thought best at the time, eg. Lewistown shawnees.

Also changes in signage and letterhead.

In any case, in my view the Shawnee covenant belt needs to be healed, with your help or without it.
Who the heck are you to be talking about the Covenant Belt needing healing? This is the epitome of white privilege to be telling Natives what they "ought to be doing".

(I learned from Jeff Wilson about his very good sharing of a small part of the nation's history with you. It is the breaking of the convenant belt in Portsmouth in 1776 which needs to be healed.)

Actually, there were a lot of people who could "pass", and did.
I know this personally. Awaiting the first bit of proof to this Fairy Tale. Aesop has more truth in his tales.

You can meet many of them by attending Oldtown Days held at Oldtown Maryland. (The real estate developers dropped the "Shawnee" part from the name "Shawnee Old Town".) see above

The effects of the conquest has provided various confused people with opportunities for both deliberate fraud and more innocently doing harm.
In my view, in recent times the state recognition processes have also led to confusion. Again, and importantly, this is simply my own view.

Again in my view, the only way to bring this confusion to an end is by the Shawnee Nation to form a Shawnee National Ancestry Organization. White privilege much?

But then the reformation of the Shawnee Nation that would require some changes in attitude on your own part.

I speak only for myself here, as it would be very presumptuous of me to assert any rights as a descendant of the Thewighila Division, or from clan. You sir are not Thawikila. I know those folks. And you sir, arent it. Present some proof. Not your grandmother's stories. Not some construct to climb the racial ladder of society because some ancestor was not *white enough* so they claimed native. A tribe is a Nation that has treaties with the US and others. You sir, are not a citizen. While you state you have descent (yet to be proven), you are not Native nor a citizen. Dont speak for us.

I will simply note that its going to be a large and difficult job, and the question that presents itself is whether you are up to it.

You also need to understand that you can not do this alone.

In the meantime, I will simply work on recovering Shawnee history. Peer review ever much? Interesting that the Voegelin's never found your so called bunch. PUBLISH for Peer Review! If there were truth to these claims, we'd welcome it.

You sir, are an internet troll. In fact you are worse than the recent Spokane NAACP scandal. You have done nothing but cause trouble and confusion for native people. Use the empirical method on your claims. Come back to me after.

[benbarnes]

Here is the situation, to the best of my knowledge.

The Ohio Historical Society is a private organization;
Dick Shiels and Brd Lepper are professional archaeologists whose status depends on controlling sites.
No Shawnee are consulted by them. 
Marti at the Newark center is a very confused sioux lady. 
(just to clear this up, I knew Wendell, who fought for the right to keep his hair, and crafted tipis, pretty well.)

The Shawnee were scxattered into 3 federally recognized Bands, and a Canadian remnant. None of the leaders talk with each other at any depth. There is no Canadian Remnant.

The more remote descendants back east were seriously damaged by Jerry Pope's fraud.  You fakes use to defend this guy? What one scandal and you guys no longer buddies?
(One of the most hilarious pictures is Pope with the leaders of the federally recognized tribes at a major event.
Another of my "favorite" items is a vocabulary list that Pope had the nerve to send to Eminie Vogelin.)

The federally recognized bands have more immediate business to tend to than the remains back east, not only here in Ohio but in other states as well.

The Ohio Historical Society did not allow powwows to be held at any of "their" sites,
 up until Dick worked with Marti to bring in Sioux to one of White Hawk's rings here at Newark.

Other than that, back in 1992 the Ohio Historical Society  leased out the other ball court-ring complex to a golf club for 100 years.
To my knowledge, Dick and Brad raised no objections.

This ceremonial complex was gifted to the Ohio Historical Society by the citizens of Newark so that it would be preserved and people could visit it.

[benbarnes]

Well, good morning, all -

A little question.
Are any of you members of any Shawnee band?

Let me make my biases clear.
I resent the cultural genocide of the Shawnee that is taking place. Then quit being a party to it.
I resent the Ohio Historical Society's efforts in this regard.
I resent other nations efforts to claim the remains of Shawnee ceremonial centers.
I resent those who attempt to create imaginary histories for the Shawnee. Again ^^^^

I resent archaeologists more interested in their careers than public service.

There are people of descent back east. Have not found one yet. Delegations of our folks went up in the 80s and 90s, and there are no kin left. Primary sources confirm that even the 92 year old women were removed.
They are a resource for frauds.
As time progresses, other nations will face these problems.
The solution I see for the Shawnee is the creation of a
Shawneee National Organization, and a Ahawnee National Organization. This have never existed, nor can it ever. And your confusing the political leadership with the religious leadership

I suppose one at a time.

Ben Barnes is a sub-chief of one of the remaining Shawnee bands.That is Chief Barnes to you. I am an elected Tribal official, which is just a political office, but I am elected by THE PEOPLE. Again, you confused the elected leadership and the religous leadership when you use that term "Okima
There are other full chiefs, I've met them.
There are many people in the other bands. Doh!
I approve fully the choice of removing "loyal" from that bands name,
but to declare themselves THE Shawnee is questionable. This was done by act of Congress. Glad you know better than Congress or the Shawnee people. White privilege much?

keely is still active, and her information is not always correct.

The attack on Jack Blosser, the Fort Ancient Celebration,
and the Dayton Historical Society is beyond the "pales".

[benbarnes]

If your such a damned good Historian, how come I have never seen your work on JSTOR or Wiley? Nor at the American Society of Ethnohistory? You are an internet troll and self-published *guru* for all those NDN Rachel Dolezal's out there. No different. Well, I retrack that. She actually tried to help folks. Your narcissistic malfunction actually is harmful.

EP, you are aggressively lecturing. Time to step back - read, listen, learn, then eventually participate. Your possible distant heritage and your health challenges do not excuse you.

Hi Piff -

I like your logo - a raven, if I am not mistaken.

I choose my words carefully, and it upsets me when I see other words put in my mouth for their own purposes.

Thank you for your council; in the future I will try to stop these bad feelings from intruding.

I am what is left of a journalist and historian.

As a historian, I always held myself to the standard of passing on what was passed on by those responsible for sharing it, and keeping my understanding of it separate, and identified it clearly as being my understanding of what was passed on.

Following this course, I now always check those passings on and understandings with those currently responsible for tribal histories.

That is the only duty which I have, and it extends not only to the Shawnee, but to other nations as well. I perform it as best as I can.

As a former journalist, I take pokvano seriously.

Having watched many nu-age frauds for some years now, I note that you can deal with them one at a time, and that will be exhausting, or you can take them on once and for all.

I hope that the Shawnee Bands will follow the Cherokee example, and form a Shawnee National Organization, and then a Shawnee National Ancestry Organization.

I hope that the Cherokee National Organization will form a Cherokee National
Ancestry Organization.

My thinking is that as time progresses, every nation will face these problems, as well as other problems involved in spanning the two worlds.

I watch the Siouxian peoples dealing with the same problems,
and right now the nu-agers in the Black Hills.

If anyone else has any ideas on a more lasting and peaceful fix to the conmen who work these nu-age frauds, please share them.

Now instead of replying to the insults, here's a little humor:

https://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/2013/05/25/marty-two-bulls-late-late-late-one-night-serpent-mound

and of course, in addition to these seriously confused people you have very bad archaeologists writing about imaginary peoples.

Since my words are being represented by others here, I will now sit back on my fully 1/8 Shawnee ass and watch what happens next.

[benbarnes]

So, if your 1/8th, Great grandma was a Full Blood! That is easy to track down! We will even help! What was her name. We will either find her, or publish the truth.

EP, you are aggressively lecturing. Time to step back - read, listen, learn, then eventually participate. Your possible distant heritage and your health challenges do not excuse you.

Hi Piff -

I like your logo - a raven, if I am not mistaken.

I choose my words carefully, and it upsets me when I see other words put in my mouth for their own purposes.

Thank you for your council; in the future I will try to stop these bad feelings from intruding.

I am what is left of a journalist and historian.

As a historian, I always held myself to the standard of passing on what was passed on by those responsible for sharing it, and keeping my understanding of it separate, and identified it clearly as being my understanding of what was passed on.

Following this course, I now always check those passings on and understandings with those currently responsible for tribal histories.

That is the only duty which I have, and it extends not only to the Shawnee, but to other nations as well. I perform it as best as I can.

As a former journalist, I take pokvano seriously.

Having watched many nu-age frauds for some years now, I note that you can deal with them one at a time, and that will be exhausting, or you can take them on once and for all.

I hope that the Shawnee Bands will follow the Cherokee example, and form a Shawnee National Organization, and then a Shawnee National Ancestry Organization.

I hope that the Cherokee National Organization will form a Cherokee National
Ancestry Organization.

My thinking is that as time progresses, every nation will face these problems, as well as other problems involved in spanning the two worlds.

I watch the Siouxian peoples dealing with the same problems,
and right now the nu-agers in the Black Hills.

If anyone else has any ideas on a more lasting and peaceful fix to the conmen who work these nu-age frauds, please share them.

Now instead of replying to the insults, here's a little humor:

https://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/2013/05/25/marty-two-bulls-late-late-late-one-night-serpent-mound

and of course, in addition to these seriously confused people you have very bad archaeologists writing about imaginary peoples.

Since my words are being represented by others here, I will now sit back on my fully 1/8 Shawnee ass and watch what happens next.