Martin Gustavsson (from Rudolf Steiner thread)

[Martin Gustavsson]

This could be of importance if we want to expose frauds of any kind in a worthy way.

If anyone (also Rudolf Steiner) said or wrote anything that can be seen as eugenics or racism we should definitely give this an accurate source if we want to expose it as any kind of fraud. In my opinion that has not been done in this thread.

However, since this is a new age fraud debunking site I think debunking new age fraud, like for example teachings of non-scientific origin, would be appropriate, such as belief in rebirth or similar.

1. Eugenics as a phenomenon has its scientific supporters and its critics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugenics#Supporters_and_critics ...so calling it new age fraud would in my opinion not be accurate.

2. Racism, labelling different races and up-grading and down-grading them, was a popular thing back in Rudolf Steiner's days. All political parties in Sweden created a race biological institute in these times, supposedly impressing Hitler. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statens_institut_f%C3%B6r_rasbiologi ...so if Steiner actually was on the same path at these times I would not be surprised. Many scientists were racists at this time, an unknown amount still probably are.
 
Furthermore. It is very non-scientific with "Guilt by association"  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_fallacy
What a teacher in any school of any kind, says or does, is irrelevant to the general quality of that School, also irrelevant to me, even if it might be relevant for the manager of that school, considering taboos of today.

Considering the times Rudolf Steiner lived, eugenics and racism, was not considered tabu by many, as it is today, by main-stream media, so if anyone actually can find something on him I would not at all be surprised. Good luck!

Best regards
Martin Gustavsson, Scientific party of Sweden https://vetenskapligapartiet.wordpress.com

[Ingeborg]

Here is some background info on our new user who bounces in with a pluralis majestatis, a few assumptions and a generous helping of supremacy and entitledness:

Gustavsson does not only run the Swedish website he linked for us, but also an English-language one:

https://intelligentunion.wordpress.com/tag/scientific-party-of-sweden/

Suddenly through my meditation, there in the middle of the harmful alcoholism and the hangover, my consciousness expanded from the size of a golf-ball into the size of a football to give you a reasonable metaphor. [...]

Having this new awareness I soon decided to quit drinking and with this new expanded consciousness it was very easy. I was very powerful. I felt like a beautiful wolf. I could spot evil in appearance and movements of a person but I could also recognize good all around me. … What a total control I had in every moment! It was amazing. [...]

Best regards
Martin Gustavsson
Leader of Intelligent Union & The Scientific party of Sweden

Emphasis mine

https://intelligentunion.wordpress.com/persons-that-we-consider-representative/

Spokespersons
1. Martin from Sweden video clip 1, video clip 2.
2. Maybe you? Send your youtube-link!
A person that is appropriate to deliver the message for Intelligent Union is intelligent and positive with his/her words and has the calmness in most situations that can contribute positively to a peaceful intelligent discussion.
Spokespersons have the ability to motivate others to join and speak in a way that can attract many people. The important thing is not to be absolutely perfect but to admit ones own human  limitations with acceptance and clarity. […]

I particularly -errrm: liked this paragraph:

People with other types of intelligence
People with challenges on the above areas can still help the Intelligent Union, because even if you are not completely  successful in becoming intelligent in all areas, you can still be very intelligent or have a high function in other areas and contribute to an intelligent organization with many things that has to be done.

We may be daft, being [.....] and [...] lovers, but we may still be used as useful idiots... Isn't this reassuring? :barf:

Some conspiracy theory in a blog article from 2011:
https://intelligentunion.wordpress.com/2011/12/27/germany-prepares-use-of-d-mark-instead-of-euro/

Some good advice for David Duke in 2014:
https://intelligentunion.wordpress.com/2014/06/21/why-the-people-not-motivated-to-be-lawful-likes-david-duke/

Some musings why god's kingdom is superior to human government:

https://intelligentunion.wordpress.com/
Excerpt:

JEHOVA! – WHO IS QUALIFIED TO RULE MANKIND? – SCIENCE!

24 June, 2014

WHO IS QUALIFIED TO RULE MANKIND VanillaMocha ask 6 years ago Apr 05, 2008 – 7:30PM.
I hear you and today I answer you in direct contact with God, Oneness, Universe, Unity and Awakedness in order to save mankind from itself.
Jehovah’s Witnesses are not strictly neutral to world’s politics, because everything affect politics. Society is built on politics and even an animal living in the forest is affected by it. In the name of God – Wake up!
When you state what to do and what not to do with a religious text it is no less political as when politicians do so with an ideology or when a muslim do so with the Koran. It is in no contact with reality or God, because being in contact with God means to deeply listen to God inside and that takes deep contemplation, functioning brain and a functioning heart!
I will explain to you why God’s Kingdom is far superior to any normal human government, you have seen so far, and I am sure most philosophers, including Jesus and scientists will agree. [...]

Emphasis mine

Plus another gem:

https://plus.google.com/105936263173869016038/posts/XA7Nvnr8k1K

Martin Gustavsson commented a YouTube video - May 2, 2014

I The Leader for a future Eden
The Scientific party of Sweden
salute your rap as innovative
awake, loving and much creative [...]

[Martin Gustavsson]

I feel someone is trolling ... Ingeborg. :-)

I will not do the same, Ingeborg, since:

1. I can not since all i know about you is.
Personal Text: I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
Gender: Female
Age: 61

2. It is non-scientific to do so. It is an Ad hominem fallacy.

3. It is out of topic, Ingeborg,

4. I see no personal reason for trolling. You probably have enough problems anyway, considering your age.

[Defend the Sacred]

Off-topic; moved to intros.  Original thread here: http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=1202.0

4. I see no personal reason for trolling. You probably have enough problems anyway, considering your age.

Apologize to Ingeborg or you're out of here, Mr. Gustavsson.

[Zhaanpaxe]

Martin, please correct me if I am wrong, but you think that it is valid to criticise the thread on Rudolf Steiner because he was simply an intellectual of his time, so to speak? If so I need to point out that he is roughly contemporaneous with anacho-communist philosoper Peter Kropotkin, and African-American social reformer Frederick Douglass.

Being a social product of certain dominant philosophies and attitudes doesn't excuse Steiner from criticism on any grounds. It is just that, trying to make up a reason to protect Steiner and his school of thought from serious examination by people who might not support it. If you only want support for your worldview, I am sure that you've come to the wrong place.

2. Racism, labelling different races and up-grading and down-grading them, was a popular thing back in Rudolf Steiner's days. All political parties in Sweden created a race biological institute in these times, supposedly impressing Hitler. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statens_institut_f%C3%B6r_rasbiologi ...so if Steiner actually was on the same path at these times I would not be surprised. Many scientists were racists at this time, an unknown amount still probably are.

In regard to this, I have recently learned that a Pawnee gentleman named White Fox went to visit Sweden in the 1870's. He is reported as dying from an illness there, but he did not receive a traditional funeral in any sense. I quote from here:

The Pawnees toured Britain, Denmark, Norway, and finally Sweden before White Fox died in Gothenburg. Though his companions wanted to give him a proper burial, Jibréus writes, “Swedish law made it possible for scientists to claim for research purposes the bodies of criminals or people with no known relations.” White Fox’s body was sent to the Karolinska Institute in Stockholm, one of the world’s premier medical universities. There, Professor of Anatomy Gustaf von Düben studied the corpse.

“What happened to White Fox’s remains went beyond even the common practices of the time,” Jibréus writes. Von Düben had plaster casts made of White Fox’s torso and head, and had one of these covered with White Fox’s own skin. This macabre specimen was later displayed at an ethnographical exhibition in Stockholm, and languished in the basement of Karolinska Institute for more than a century.

Note that section that I bolded in that final paragraph? They were just people of their time too. As I hope you can see, making excuses for flawed ideologies can have devastating consequences.


From here:

Waldorf movement’s continued failure to address anthroposophy’s racial legacy is not that Waldorf schools in the twenty-first century will start churning out little Hitler youths; what is worrisome is that Waldorf advocates and sympathizers may unknowingly help prepare the ideological groundwork for another unforeseen shift in the broader cultural terrain, in which notions of racial and ethnic superiority and inferiority could once again take on a spiritual significance that lends itself all too easily to practical implementation in a changed social and political context. For this reason among others, I strongly encourage those involved in Waldorf endeavors to take another look at the history of their movement and the doctrines at its core.

And by the way; acting like a self-centered jerk when someone merely points out your own personal history in regards to the subject-at-hand doesn't help your case in support of Steiner or Anthroposophy at all.