Fakes in Canada

[Le Weaponnier]

I found this link....

http://www.blacklightning.on.ca/Leaders/leaders.html
and this at the same group
http://www.icss.org/

Does this seem a little too fake  to you?

They advertise things like the Spiritual sexuality workshops, crystal healings snd other new-age stuff.

Does anyone know anything about them?

[CrystalMirror]

Of course this is not real Native teaching! It is a blatant rip-off and insult to true spirituality.

[Guest]

I found this link....

They advertise things like the Spiritual sexuality quote]

In most case the sex workshops you are talking about refer to the so called, Chuluaqui Quodoushka. It claims to be a spiritual sexuality teaching handed down from Native American and Latin American native teachings.
It's actually a load of crap distilled from things like the Kama Sutra(cleaning Chakra's???) mixed in with a lot of fabricated nonsense.  It all came down as a part of Harley 'Swift Deer' Reagans cult teachings.
That anyone could believe in this stuff amazes me. It tries to teach you how to have 'Sacred Orgasms' etc.  It's more like a course in how to turn sex into a mastubatory experience of self-pleasure than how to have better sex. If people were to do all the things they tell you to do to enjoy sex, you'd be working so hard at it you'd miss the point (and probably the orgasm!).
It's really sad that people pay good money to go to do this.  

[Lauren]

I looked at theri website.
It's worse than most of the fake sites out there.
It's a load of bull-s&&t if you ask me.
There should be some form of regulatiion for these things.
The Q workshops are known to be nonsense. They apeal to chicks that think sex should be better. They must laugh their heads off at the girls who do all this stuff to get sacred orgasms. There would be more stuff on the Net about them but I suspect, most women would rather not say anything than admit to being duped into paying big bucks to
have better sex.
What a joke!
I feel sorry for all the girls who think that better sex will come from being a slut. If you're already a slut you can enjoy the course with no idea of what the f*** is wrong!

[educatedindian]

LW, your instinct was right. This is purely Nuage, has zero to do with Native beliefs outside of rip offs of genuine Native terms like sweet medicine. Some of the phoniness is so obvious that I often wonder how anyone falls for these. I honestly think Harley Reagan deliberately chose to be as wrong as possible in his depiction of Native beliefs so as to drive away anyone who knows anything about Native traditions.

I hope no one you know was taken in by these. Not only are the "Deer Tribe" a cult that rips off huge amounts of money, they are an extremely dangerous cult that abuses a lot of women (and sometimes men) sexually and is heavily armed and preparing for a race war.
http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/issues/2002-06-13/news/feature.html

What is pretty damned scary is that some of these cult leaders are psychotherapists and teachers at schools, a danger to their patients and schoolkids. I would not be at all surprised to see this cult go the way of the Branch Davidians or Jim Jones.

Warn anyone you know interested in this group as loudly as you can.

Note also that every last site they link to are also frauds. Do a search of this forum and you'll find information we've gathered on just about all of them.

[debbieredbear]

Hahaha! OMG! LOok at the TWINKIE names!

"Snow Bear Dreaming"? "Crystal Well Woman"?? Haha!

[Le Weaponnier]

 So since everyone agrees that they are also a fraudulent cult should I put a message in the frauds section about them now?
I can't understand why more people can't seem to realise that these people are ripping them off.

[Dianne Harris]

 It's been an interesting time reading about these people.  I just don't understand why no one arrests them or investigates them.
Is it that people are too afraid to admit to being scammed? Or sexually abused? Or are they so brainwashed, they think it's all ok?

[educatedindian]

This cult has an incredible knack for picking people who are either extremely vulnerable or deluded. I ran into a guy on another cult discussion forum who'd almost joined them about five years ago, and he STILL believed them to be genuine, came up with the most elaborate arguments for why sex ceremonies and white wannabes playing Indian and training for a race war against Latinos seemed authentically Cherokee to him. To be fair, the guy was pretty shell shocked from his time in the Moonies.

When I was in Phoenix we gave the Scottsdale PD evidence of their committing fraud and using paid prostitutes and drugs in their fake ceremonies and they still refused to prosecute. Harley Reagan is a very big name in the local NRA and the Phoenix area has a lot of adult industries that border on being bordellos.

There was one activist I met who said they even gave videotaped evidence to the DA and they efused to charge them.

[Linda Wall]

Hahaha! OMG! LOok at the TWINKIE names!

"Snow Bear Dreaming"? "Crystal Well Woman"?? Haha!

I found "Snow Bear Dreaming" to be Lou Brunato on their site
http://www.blacklightning.on.ca/Leaders/leaders.html

I did a search for him and found:
http://users.pandora.be/gohiyuhi/frauds/frd0011a.htm

Scroll down to the section on Canada and you find him as a person to avoid. Does anyone know any more about him?
I did n't see the "Crystal Well Woman"

[Dianne Harris]

When I was in Phoenix we gave the Scottsdale PD evidence of their committing fraud and using paid prostitutes and drugs in their fake ceremonies and they still refused to prosecute. Harley Reagan is a very big name in the local NRA and the Phoenix area has a lot of adult industries that border on being bordellos.

There was one activist I met who said they even gave videotaped evidence to the DA and they efused to charge them.

That may be true in Scottsdale, but if it was in another jurisdiction or country and the police raided a sex ceremony and everyone's names ended up in the newspapers it would keep a lot of people drom ever going to snother ceremony.
Maybe then it would get into the mainstream media. and people wouldn't get used.

[educatedindian]

I'd certainly encourage trying to take this cult on in as many jurisdictions as possible. I can give some tips to anyone who wants to try:

Go to Trish's site and see if one of their chapters is near you. Keep in mind the local chapters have their own names other than Deer Tribe.
http://users.pandora.be/gohiyuhi/frauds/frd0011a.htm

Look for ads for their "sex ceremonies" in the local alternative press under "adult services" or sexual counseling/psychotherapy.

Usually you have to call up to find out the location of these seminars. They don't want protests by NDNs or our supporters. So claim to be someone simply curious.

***If you don't want them knowing your home phone #, call them up from work or a payphone. Give a false address. Keep in mind this group is heavily armed and preparing for a race war. And tell them you don't have a credit card. Otherwise they will insist upon you paying in advance with it.***

These "ceremonies" are usually held in a cult member's home, usually in well off suburbs. Get there early and hand out flyers warning people. Don't forget to hand out flyers to the neighbors, who usually don't know what's going on and wouldn't want group sexual assault happening next door, esp if they have kids. This is a good way to drive the "ceremonies" out of the neighborhood.

Try to get to people going into the "ceremony" before they send out their security details. It is from these people that we found out all the illegal activity and found people willing to testify, angry at being cheated and lied to.

These security details know exactly how far to push things without breaking the law. One of them tried to break into an NDN woman's car while we were there, saying "I just want to talk, just being friendly." We found that taking their photo to hand over to the cops scares them off.

In our case, they called the cops on us. That backfired, the cops praised us for knowing how to lawfully conduct a protest. We gave them all the details of their illegal activity and the cops demanded to enter the premises. Since they had no warrant, the cult leaders delayed for about 20 minutes, hiding drug paraphernalia and the prostitutes.

While I do want people to take ordinary precautions, keep in mind this group will only subtly try to intimidate people. They did not try violence against us, or anyone else as far as I know.

Since we have several new people as Guests asking about this cult, let me ask if I can if anyone you know has been harmed or defrauded by this cult. If so, could you tell us about their experience?

If you were, I strongly urge you to go to the cops or DA, or file a lawsuit. If you are embarassed or feel ashamed, fist of all, don't be. These are experienced con artists. But if you prefer to remain anonymous and post simply as Guests, that's fine.

[Le Weaponnier]

There is one in Canada Thursday



Chuluaqui Quodoushka III - Toronto, Ontario, Canada

 Thurs Jan 12th - Sunday Jan 15th, 2006
Prerequisite: Quodoushka I and II
Registration/Information: I.C.S.S., call 416-603-4912

As far as I know, this is the full on fucking in the workshop version since it's the QIII
It would be good if someone could alert the media or the police in Toronto or just somehow get it out in the public eye.

[Lauren]

Quote:"Look for ads for their "sex ceremonies" in the local alternative press under "adult services" or sexual counseling/psychotherapy. "

Shouldn't we look for ads for "GROUP GROPE" or "PAY AS YOU GO ORGY"?

Seriously though, isn't this sort of thing illegal?
Why don't the local cops in the cities investigate?

You have a bunch of naked dumbass people sitting in a room being shown how to have sex by prostitutes and what not. It's got to be violating something.
How exactly do they do this stuff? Do they get a "hands on" from the instructors? Do the instructors actually do things with the customers or do they just demostrate by having sex in front of them?

[Dianne Harris]

Quote:"Shouldn't we look for ads for "GROUP GROPE" or "PAY AS YOU GO ORGY"?

I think I like that.

It'd be funnier if it wasn't so sad.
I feel sorry for these people who think they have to pay big money to take a course to improve their sex life.
They will only end up more screwed up than ever. Personally, I didn't need to go to school to have great sex.  I don't want to think of my sexuality being the result of some half-baked mish mash of traditions and nonsense.
Indian sex indeed. Wrong Indians for a start, more the New Delhi tribe than Cherokee .