Harley "Swiftdeer" Reagan, Chuluaqui Quodoushka, Chulukai Quodosha

[Ganieda]

Yes, there are Chakras....do a bit of research.....some snippets:

Chakra is a Sanskrit word meaning wheel, or vortex.

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The idea of the subtle vital force (prana) and the channels along which it flows (nadis) appear in the earliest Upanishads (7th-8th century b.c.e.).  The heart was said to be the centre of the 72,000 nadis or subtle channels, and the place into which the senses are withdrawn during sleep.  As with many ancient civilisations (e.g. Egypt, Homeric Greece), the heart was also considered the seat of waking consciousness.

But it was only in the later Upanishads - the earlier of which were composed somewhere between the 2nd century b.c.e. and the 2nd century c.e. - reference is first made to basic Tantric concepts such as chakras, mantras, and so on.

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Tantric Buddhism (or Vajrayana) broke off from the Indian Tantric one at a very early stage.  Hence they developed a rather different version of the chakras.  Tibetan Buddhism acknowledges four (navel, heart, throat, and head), five, seven, or even ten chakras or "channel wheels"; each with a different number of "spokes" to its Indian Tantric counterpart.  The navel chakra for example has sixty-four spokes, the heart chakra eight, the throat sixteen (the only one to agree with the Hindu scheme), and the head or crown chakra thirty-two.  

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And yes, there have been various "new-age" interpretations, most of which are crap....but the basic idea of Chakra existed long before the idea became "popular".  

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Of course there is such a thing as Sacred Sex.  Sex IS Sacred.  That idea, too, has existed for centuries.  And Tantra simply refers to the Divine Union of Opposites.  Of course now, something like this just debases the sacredness and makes me ill.  

http://www.sacredsexyes.com/


Just because some so-called "new-ager" has bent and twisted some of these terms and uses them improperly does not mean that they do not exist, or that they are not still valid within the original teachings.

You can't deny the existance of things just because you do not understand them.

[Le Weaponnier]

Quote:" You can't deny the existance of things just because you do not understand them"

Your logic is flawed.
You cannot justlfiy existence on the grounds that you cannot prove the opposite.
 Your argument about the existence of Chakras has a hole in it.  Long belief in something does not in itself provide proof of it's reality.

From the Skeptics dictionary:
The alleged energy of the chakras is not scientifically measurable, however, and is at best a metaphysical chimera and at worst an anatomical falsehood.
From Answers.com:
Scientific basis
The idea of chakras as understood in Eastern philosophy does not exist in Western medical science. In Eastern thought, the chakras are thought to be levels of consciousness, and states of the soul, and 'proving' the existence of chakras is akin to 'proving' the existence of a soul.

Therefore, she is correct in saying "chakras" don't exist.
As for all sex is sacred? Also flawed, for then rape would also be sacred... so would animal sex, homosexual sex...
The truth of the matter is that what they are pushing is all garbage, and only an easily duped person, or incredibly naive would believe otherwise.

[Dianne Harris]

Quote:"And yes, there have been various "new-age" interpretations, most of which are crap....but the basic idea of Chakra existed long before the idea became "popular".

Chakras have never been proven to exist. No more than Ghosts, Vampires Werewolves, or UFO's

Just because people think something up doesn't make it true.

[educatedindian]

Ganeida, I think what's important is that there's no such thing as chakras or "sacred sex" in any Native traditions, at least any I ever heard of. It's the wrong kind of Indian, and they're trying to confuse people.

"Sacred sex" such as tantra is basically just getting the guy to slow down so the woman can have time to orgasm. I think most NDNs (American ones) would say you don't feel the need to make sex "sacred" unless you were feeling guilty about it before. Or unless some creep wants to talk some girl into it when he couldn't get her any other way. It reminds me more than a little of those fundamentalists who insist married couples pray before sex.

In other words, it's just humping, why bring in religion at all?

[TrishaRoseJacobs]

As for all sex is sacred? Also flawed, for then rape would also be sacred... so would animal sex, homosexual sex...
 The truth of the matter is that what they are pushing is all garbage, and only an easily duped person, or incredibly naive would believe otherwise.

Just a request, I'm sure nothing was meant by it, but so that those of us on this board who aren't straight aren't made to feel unwelcome - could we not lump homosexual sex in with rape and bestiality?

thanx,

[Le Weaponnier]

 I am sorry, I did not intend it to come out that way.

I was trying to show that to some people, other forms of sex, including homosexual sex is very alien. As easily, in some cultures polygamy or polyandry is acceptable, but not the "norm" in our culture.
The "swingers" lifestyle is equally alien to those of us who are monogamous.
I suppose I might have worded it a bit better, no offense was meant.

As has since been pointed out, it's only humping.
Sex is a natural bodily function, as is urinating defecating, etc....

Hmmm there's a money maker....
A course on "Sacred Defecation"

You too, can experience Sacred Defecation.
Do you go too early in your pants? Premature defecation affects many men.
Learn how to control your defecation.
Got to go now?
Learn how to suck it back up into your Chakras.
Learn how to fill up your other Chakras as you need to .
Learn how to obtain that feeling of relief without actually going.
Learn how to go more than once.
Learn how to keep going and prolong your defecation for up to 10 minutes!
Spiritual Defecation is the ultimate secret to happiness.
Live longer, smell less.
Native Americans have been taught since childhood how to defecate spiritually. You too can learn these ancient traditions. They have been handed down from the Toltecs, and other Native American tribes and blended with a bit of Eastern mysticism to explain the bits we couldn't think up on our own.
Remember , just like the other New Agers you too can be full of shit and still be happy.

Sign up also for Sacred Urination. Women too, can learn to write theri name in the snow.

[Dianne Harris]

Quote:" A course on "Sacred Defecation"  

I almost did a  "Sacred Defecation"  in my pants when I read that.

Please warn me next time you are gonig to be funny.

[Sagaanmergen]

What nationality is that guy anyhow?
Like the fake Siberian shamans of the Rudnev cult he has one name which is Native Siberian and one which is Hindu.  Interesting...even in Silk Road times Hindus were non-existent in Siberia.
It is interesting to note that if you Google his name he appears mostly in French, German, and Russian language websites, so he is probably another follower of the infamous Konstantin Rudnev.
The Rudnev cult is very preoccupied with sex, largely as a way of mind control and exploitation of female followers.  Their Russian-language website could be considered obscene to pornographic depending on how prudish you are.  Sex is not part of and never was part of Siberian religious practice, although if you go a little bit south you will find it in India and Tibet.
I was very disgusted and shocked, however, that even some Native American medicine people do stoop to that level.  I was invited to a Native American cultural center in the city in which I now live to meet an Inuit angaqoq (spelling may be wrong, but in their tradition similar to a shaman in ours).  Dressed in traditional clothing, bringing him gifts I had brought from Siberia, I met with him and the Native American people who came to see him.  Afterwards he wanted to talk to me one on one, and as soon as the door was closed he dropped his pants!  I was disgusted and shocked.  He proposed to me then and later by e-mail that we do some sort of sweat-lodge sex ceremony.
It seems to me that Native Americans need to ferret out some of the charlatans who are still being accepted as the real thing in the Native American community.
So Mr. Little Stone Quodosha (translating the Siberian part of his name) seems to be, like the angaqoq mentioned above, one of those New Age teachers that are using women for the sake of their own sexual gratification.  Shame on them all.  They have probably caused more damage to families than bringing healing in spite of all the love and light talk.  

regards,

Sarangerel Odigon

[Dianne Harris]

 So tell me then, how many real Native cereminies actually involve or require nudity?

Any?
or is it just a Nuage scam?

[debbieredbear]

I would guess very few require nudity, if any. Most of the "nudie ceremonies" are new age fantasies and scams.

[yellowthunder_bolt]

No Native Americans do not have anything to do with nude cerermonies. This is just another lie and false teachings that are abundant concerning Native Americans.

www.native-language.org/religion.htm.

[yellowthunder_bolt]

 forgive me the site thread given seems correct but does not go to where it was to go. Google"indian religion" and click on Seeking Native American Spirituality and Religion.  Sorry

[raven]

The only nudity I have seen in a native ceremony has been with an all men's sweat, and that has been very rare. It was not uncommon pre-reservation that men sweated in the nude.

[raven]

The sweats that I have seen men sweat in the nude was due to the fact that the men there did not know I was a female. It was in the middle of winter on one of the rez's up north. I was helping the fire tender due to the bittness, and with all the clothing I had on, no one knew I was out there until the meal, and nothing was said on the matter.

[Le Weaponnier]

So tell me then, how many real Native cereminies actually involve or require nudity?

 Any?
or is it just a Nuage scam?

Mostly it's a Nuage Scam. Real native American ceremonies don't do nude ceremonies, and certainly not co-ed or mixed sex ceremonies. Nor do they do healing ceremines involving sex or nudity. Instead of having 'real' ceremonies, they make them up to sound like what the wannabe's think they should be.
Like the Quodosha thingy, it's all a mixup of nonsense and bits and pieces of other cultures. Like Tantra's and Chakras (India), also stuff from the Wiccans. One "Q" lesson is actually supposed to have been lifted from some scene in a cheap B-movie.
The nudity bit in the ceremonies is borrowed from the Wiccans. They think it's a part of their and Druid culture. The fact that the Druids were wiped out by the Romans to the last man, and left no oral or written history is mostly overlooked, so they made up their own ceremonies too.
It's pretty funny when you realise that most of these Nuage ceremonies are fakes, based in part on other faked or made up ceremonies.

You often hear of some pervert who claims ot be able to heal a woman's problems by 'massage' or a healing cereminy. Starts out nude massage, moves onto rubbing outside then inside then the a reason or a need to put a penis in there. By the time the woman realizes she's been had it's too late.

The nudity is a good way also to make them more easily controlled. It strips away their will and makes them easier to control. Plus, you can guess pretty much that is someone is stupid enough to fall for 'nude ceremonies' they are pretty likely to fall for any number of other ideas (such as 'internal massage')
Also, they rely on the embarrassment factor to keep people who have been conned from telling the world about it.
Afterall, who is going to admit they paid money to go out in the woods with a bunch of strangers. Took off all theri clothes with them, then pranced around like some silly village idiot. All the while  doing whatever some people with names like 'Karen Dancing Bear Schiklegruber' told them to do.  I think there's a lot of that you wouldn't want friends family and co-workers to know about. Let alone telling your spouse you have been getting an internal massage. So the nudity is a good way to impose silence on those smart enough to eventually realise they were conned. (assuming there are any that ARE bright enough. )

Now, I'm going to take off my clothes and put a feather up my butt, and .....   NOT!!