Author Topic: Margaret Noodin, Professor  (Read 190143 times)

Offline Sparks

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The Complete "Margaret Noodin, Professor" Thread as of August 3, 2022
« Reply #75 on: August 28, 2022, 04:10:43 am »
I made a PDF (PRINT version) of the whole "Margaret Noodin, Professor" thread as of August 3, 2022, including my latest comment there. I don't think there were any more comments until the original thread (topic) disappeared about a week ago (as many of you will know). The PDF is now attached here:

http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=5624.0
[The Complete "Margaret Noodin, Professor" Thread as of August 3, 2022]

I hope this will be of some use, even if none of the links (URLs) in that PDF are clickable.

Offline Advanced Smite

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Re: Margaret Noodin, Professor
« Reply #76 on: August 28, 2022, 11:55:42 pm »
Title: Re: Margaret Noodin Ojibwe Professor
Post by: advancedsmite on April 01, 2022, 05:33:20 am

The UWM Alumni Association hosted a live event "Milwaukee's Long History Along the Lake" featuring Margaret Noodin on June 24, 2020. The full video is available at this link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mZeh_ROHnw*. I have transcribed Margaret's response to a question from the audience regarding her background (14:10 to 16:15) below. I bolded text that seems especially relevant based on prior discussion in this thread.

Quote
…I’m originally from Minnesota. I grew up hearing the language a bit. It is part of my background, and I had a sense that I should learn to speak the language of my ancestors. But I also had a lot of support from elders around me. So, I’m part of a generation that got to hear a lot of elders for sure. In Minneapolis, we still at the time when I was growing up there, had a lot of people that held classes. We had some summer camps. I certainly got to hear the language a lot. But I grew up in the city and we did not speak the language at home. It’s been 5 generations since anybody in my family was fluent in the language and then I really dedicated my life to trying to reclaim that. Our family is from Grand Portage Lake Superior Band of Chippewa but then also from the Ontario Metis. So, people will sometimes say “Well which are your family names?” In our case it’s the Hills, Lavallees, Monplaisirs. It gives you a sense of who we were and how that trade culture mixed with our culture around the Great Lakes.
And the other thing that I’m always really happy to be able to share is both of my daughters grew up hearing the language and singing these songs and using it. Recently my oldest graduated from college and the youngest will be entering college next year and it’s really been a delight to see that with some effort I believed what all my teachers told me which was “teach your children.” If you’re going to learn, teach your children as you are learning and, in my family, we’ve done that. So, I’m happy to say we’ve got the language at least moving forward one more generation. I hope you know (if that’s helpful for folks to know a little bit) it is definitely possible for people to reclaim those connections.

*New hyperlink added by advancedsmite during reconstruction of thread due to broken hyperlink. See attached PNG file for reference.

Offline Advanced Smite

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Re: Margaret Noodin, Professor
« Reply #77 on: August 28, 2022, 11:59:52 pm »
Title: Re: Margaret Noodin Ojibwe Professor
Post by: Smart Mule on April 02, 2022, 06:10:46 pm

Margaret, could you please expand a bit on Henri Lavallee being Lizzie's father? Is this a non-paternity event? Is there documentation or is this a family story? Who exactly was Henri Lavallee? Is he where some of your potential ancestry comes from? Who were his People? Did Lizzie and/or Jenny attend boarding school while they resided in Rhode Island or was it prior to that while in Whitehall?

Thanks,

SM

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Re: Margaret Noodin, Professor
« Reply #78 on: August 29, 2022, 12:04:11 am »
Posted by Noodin

Title: Re: Margaret Noodin Ojibwe Professor
Post by: Noodin on April 05, 2022, 02:07:10 am

Henri Lavallee is Lizzie's birth father. We have family stories of him living is several parts of the Great Lakes which is why our family has searched for the Lavallee name in several communities. I am not at all saying that I have any claim to enrollment through him and Lizzie, only that I was raised understanding this is where we have the connection to Great Lakes Indigenous identity. The term used over time has changed from just Indian (in Lizzie's stories of being at an Indian school) to Chippewa (during my father's lifetime) to Anishinaabe (during my lifetime) - however I believe this is the same diaspora, or confederacy. People in several communities have looked at this with me and I hope one day to find more, but this is what I know.

Offline Advanced Smite

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Re: Margaret Noodin, Professor
« Reply #79 on: August 29, 2022, 12:13:16 am »
Title: Re: Margaret Noodin Ojibwe Professor
Post by: advancedsmite on April 05, 2022, 04:09:19 am

Were the boarding school/Indian school stories about Elizabeth or Jennie?

Quote
March 29, 2022
Lizzie's father was Henri Lavallee, her stepfather was John Meyers. I will refrain from mentioning anything publicly about them until I know more and will cease sharing the story she told about her sister attending boarding school until I can verify the school.

Quote
April 4, 2022
The term used over time has changed from just Indian (in Lizzie's stories of being at an Indian school) to Chippewa (during my father's lifetime) to Anishinaabe (during my lifetime) - however I believe this is the same diaspora, or confederacy.

Smart Mule asked about whether there is any documentation about Henri Lavallee being Elizabeth's father. Can you address
specifically: Is there a record of Henri marrying Agnes? Is there a birth or baptismal record that lists Elizabeth's father as Henri
Lavallee? Is there a record of Henri's death?

Offline Advanced Smite

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Re: Margaret Noodin, Professor
« Reply #80 on: August 29, 2022, 12:19:59 am »
Title: Re: Margaret Noodin Ojibwe Professor
Post by: Smart Mule on April 05, 2022, 09:46:02 pm

If Lizzie's mother married John Henry Meyers in 1878 and Lizzie was born in 1884 then this is a non-paternity event. Are you basing this on family lore or do you have documentation?

Quote from: Noodin on April 05, 2022, 02:07:10 am
Quote
Henri Lavallee is Lizzie's birth father. We have family stories of him living is several parts of the Great Lakes which is why our family has searched for the Lavallee name in several communities. I am not at all saying that I have any claim to enrollment through him and Lizzie, only that I was raised understanding this is where we have the connection to Great Lakes Indigenous identity. The term used over time has changed from just Indian (in Lizzie's stories of being at an Indian school) to Chippewa (during my father's lifetime) to Anishinaabe (during my lifetime) - however I believe this is the same diaspora, or confederacy. People in several communities have looked at this with me and I hope one day to find more, but this is what I know.

Offline Advanced Smite

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Re: Margaret Noodin, Professor
« Reply #81 on: August 29, 2022, 12:23:50 am »
Title: Re: Margaret Noodin Ojibwe Professor
Post by: WINative on April 06, 2022, 07:11:46 pm

I realize universities are protected from hiring non-Natives for positions teaching Native history or programs, and there is no Indian Preference in hiring. That's why Ward Churchill, and Andrea Smith, have been able to continue their work. The best case scenario for any Native community trying to repatriate its languages and cultures, and heal from historical trauma is to have a enrolled Native person would be hired with the proper credentials to assist them and if not Native they would be totally transparent about their background, which we have numerous documentation that Margaret Noodin has not. From misrepresenting how she was raised, to her last name, to her lineage to Grand Portage and Metis, none of this has proven true.
Her tactic now seems to say she never claimed to be enrolled, but not to deny she has Any Native or Ojibwe ancestry. She claims friends have told her to explore her identity, that is not a proxy for go tell the world your Ojibwe until your found out. I would like to see this person placed in Frauds.

Offline Advanced Smite

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Re: Margaret Noodin, Professor
« Reply #82 on: August 29, 2022, 12:39:37 am »
Title: Re: Margaret Noodin Ojibwe Professor
Post by: Diana on April 07, 2022, 10:09:19 pm

I think I may have solved the mystery of Mr. Lavallee allegedly Lizzie Bean Meyers Hill's father.

I went over several censuses again and started looking at the original 1910 censuses and the neighbors on it. In the 1910 census Lizzie Bean Meyers Hill and her family were living in Providence Rhode Island. The name on the 1910 census is Hall but is obviously a misspelling. Also Margaret/Montplaisir has already corrected it as you will see.

Lizzie and George Hall/Hill were living on Sterling Avenue #52 and George was working at the woolen mill. If you scroll down to #53 Sterling Avenue there is a neighbor by the name of Paul Lavallee. Paul Lavallee and family is also from Canada/French and also works at the same woolen mill as Lizzie's husband George Hall/Hill. Now if you scroll down even further there's a man by the name of Henri Vadnars at the same address as the Lavallees. And Henri Vadnars also works at the woolen mill. The Vadnars are also from Canada.

This is too much of a coincidence. I believe this is where the rumor started about "Henri Lavallee". I think the rumors of an affair was probably between this Paul Lavallee and Lizzie. And of course through the years the rumor like the game telephone got twisted into something else.

Name: Lizzie M Hall
[Hill]
Age in 1910: 25
Birth Date: 1885
[1885]
Birthplace: Canada
[Canada French]
Home in 1910: Providence Ward 8, Providence, Rhode Island, USA
Street: Sterling Avenue
Race: White
Gender: Female
Immigration Year: 1904
Relation to Head of House: Wife
Marital Status: Married
Spouse's Name: George W Hall
Father's Birthplace: Canada
[Canada French]
Mother's Birthplace: Canada
[Canada French]
Native Tongue: English
Able to read: Yes
Able to Write: Yes
Years Married: 3
Number of Children Born: 2
Number of Children Living: 2
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members Age Relationship
George W Hall
35 Head
Lizzie M Hall 25 Wife
Margaret E Hall
3 Daughter
Harold G Hall
0 Son

Name: Paul Lavallee
Age in 1910: 28
Birth Date: 1882
[1882]
Birthplace: Canada
[Canada French]
Home in 1910: Providence Ward 8, Providence, Rhode Island, USA
Street: Sterling Avenue
House Number: 53
Race: White
Gender: Male
Immigration Year: 1906
Relation to Head of House: Head
Marital Status: Married
Spouse's Name: Clara Lavallee
Father's Birthplace: Canada
[Canada French]
Mother's Birthplace: Canada
[Canada French]
Native Tongue: English
Occupation: Loom Fixer
Industry: Worsted Mill

Employer, Employee or Other: Wage Earner
Home Owned or Rented: Rent
Farm or House: House
Naturalization Status: Alien
Able to read: Yes
Able to Write: Yes
Years Married: 7
Out of Work: N
Number of Weeks Out of Work: 0
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members Age Relationship
Paul Lavallee 28 Head
Clara Lavallee
30 Wife
Delia Lavallee
4 Daughter
Herman Lavallee
3 Son
Louis Lavallee
25 Brother
Pheobe Lavallee
22 Sister-in-law
Beatrice Lavallee
0 Niece

Name: Henri Vadnars
[Henri Vadnais]
[Henri Vadnais]
Age in 1910: 45
[46]
Birth Date: 1865
[1865]
Birthplace: New York
Home in 1910: Providence Ward 8, Providence, Rhode Island, USA
Street: Sterling Avenue
Race: White
Gender: Male
Relation to Head of House: Head
Marital Status: Married
Spouse's Name: Rosenna Vadnars
Father's Birthplace: New York
Mother's Birthplace: Canada
[Canada French]
Native Tongue: English
Occupation: Weaver
Industry: Woolen Mill
Employer, Employee or Other: Wage Earner
Home Owned or Rented: Rent
Farm or House: House
Able to read: Yes
Able to Write: Yes
Years Married: 20
Out of Work: N
Number of Weeks Out of Work: 0
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members Age Relationship
Henri Vadnars 45 Head
Rosenna Vadnars
37 Wife
Henri E Vadnars
19 Son
Felix M Vadnars
18 Son
Joseph A Vadnars
16 Son
Clarabelle Vadnars
14 Daughter
Charles C Vadnars
12 Son

Offline Advanced Smite

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Re: Margaret Noodin, Professor
« Reply #83 on: August 29, 2022, 12:43:05 am »
Title: Re: Margaret Noodin Ojibwe Professor
Post by: Defend the Sacred on April 08, 2022, 11:53:29 pm

Well, whatever went on with these households and neighbors, all these people, Lavallees included, are white.

Offline Advanced Smite

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Re: Margaret Noodin, Professor
« Reply #84 on: August 29, 2022, 02:08:19 am »
Title: Re: Margaret Noodin Ojibwe Professor
Post by: Smart Mule on April 09, 2022, 12:49:36 pm

I went through every census in Ontario, Saskatchewan and Quebec from 1852-1921 and there was no Henri Lavallee, including
variations of spelling, showing as Indian. Not one. Not one living where Lizzie would have been conceived or elsewhere. I
checked those specific areas because he is supposed to be Nish. I'm open to checking other provinces, I had to stop because I
was traveling. Should I bother?

Offline Advanced Smite

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Re: Margaret Noodin, Professor
« Reply #85 on: August 31, 2022, 03:04:50 am »
Title: Re: Margaret Noodin Ojibwe Professor
Post by: WINative on April 14, 2022, 04:45:17 pm

I know many of you have worked hard to uncover Margaret Noodin's family history and have done a great job in showing she has No Indian Blood on either side, No Grand Portage Band of Lake Superior Chippewa and No Metis. Both of these she has claimed to be in her past videos and presentations.
As early as 1992, she is documented as claiming to be Ojibwe from Minnesota, and 2008 she said on the video below "The Tribe we were enrolled at is Minnesota Chippewa from Grand Portage and Martin Clan." As recent as the video from 2020 below she states, " Our family is from Grand Portage Band of Lake Superior Chippewa." She now states I never said that-i'm just a Ojibwe descendant, which she is Not. She has admitted she is stepping down from the Electa Quinney Institute due to these issues and people don't do that unless they have been caught. She has led you down a wild goose chase stories of more ancestors but nothing found. I think this has to have a consequence for all her actions, which have had a negative impact on
real Native Americans.

https://aadl.org/node/370469?fbclid=IwAR2c4LBw7pXWpP1ir6UVOqjMKttoWn2soI0u3wgJRnxUvJIbcYEmNMl2cTc*

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLOgHzhyF7o*

*Strikethrough added by advancedsmite during reconstruction of the thread to indicate a broken link. See attached PNG file for reference.

Offline Advanced Smite

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Re: Margaret Noodin, Professor
« Reply #86 on: August 31, 2022, 03:19:17 am »
Title: Re: Margaret Noodin, Professor
Post by: educatedindian on April 15, 2022, 12:05:59 am

Quote from: WINative on April 06, 2022, 07:11:46 pm
Quote
I realize universities are protected from hiring non-Natives for positions teaching Native history or programs, and there is no Indian Preference in hiring. That's why Ward Churchill, and Andrea Smith, have been able to continue their work. The best case scenario for any Native community trying to repatriate its languages and cultures, and heal from historical trauma is to have a enrolled Native person would be hired with the proper credentials to assist them and if not Native they would be totally transparent about their background, which we have numerous documentation that Margaret Noodin has not. From misrepresenting how she was raised, to her last name, to her lineage to Grand Portage and Metis, none of this has proven true.
Her tactic now seems to say she never claimed to be enrolled, but not to deny she has Any Native or Ojibwe ancestry. She claims friends have told her to explore her identity, that is not a proxy for go tell the world your Ojibwe until your found out. I would like to see this person placed in Frauds.

Actually Churchill is the one and only case I know of where he was hired solely for being (thought to be) Native, and not for the quality of his work, training, or teaching. And both he and Smith were forced to step down.

How many times do you have to hear you won before you realize you did? This is the third time I've told you.

You've been part of NAFPS for years and you realize who we usually go after. She's not a cult leader, didn't abuse anyone, didn't spread falsehoods about Native traditions. There's zero evidence of harming anyone. Just the opposite, her being forced to step down harms Ojibwes by taking away a language teacher.

You're certainly right that it's far better to have someone who grew up speaking the language teaching it instead of someone who learned it as an adult. But that's just not possible for more than a few NDN tribes in the US or Canada.

I'm writing this paragraph for any outsiders reading this since I know you know it all too well. Boarding schools came damn close to killing Native languages, reduced the speakers to sometimes a few dozen people out of thousands. Even the larger groups like Dineh and Cherokee struggle to hold onto the language. Non Natives often teaching the language is going to be a reality for the near future, for the same reasons the Spanish teachers in Iowa high schools probably won't be Latinos.

Noodin is someone who took the family stories of ancestry at face value without checking them. This is something she shouldn't have done, but there was no intent to harm and no benefit to her.

Calling herself Ojibwe several times so far that we know of instead of "I believe myself to be a descendant" was wrong. But it wasn't systematic, and likely came from her thinking at that moment, "I'm part of the community, and I believe what my family said." She has apologized here and can and should correct her mistakes.

It also has to be a hard experience for her to go through. All her life she believed herself to be a descendant and made it her career to learn the language fluently, doing a lot of good because she also thought she was getting in touch with her roots. And she can and should take pride in the good she's done, just has to relearn to think of herself as an ally and community friend.

WIN, you know what we do when someone we criticized and investigated tries to change and do right, or was found not to be harmful. Noodin is both of these.

The right thing to do is wait for her to contact the several websites where she falsely called herself Ojibwe instead of "I claim to be a descendant." Once the sites have corrections up, this thread should be moved to Archives and marked No Longer a Matter of Concern.

You won. She had to step down, and changes what she said. Happy ending? Not for the shock to her sense of self, and the loss of a needed teacher.

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Re: Margaret Noodin, Professor
« Reply #87 on: August 31, 2022, 03:30:49 am »
Title: Re: Margaret Noodin Ojibwe Professor
Post by: Defend the Sacred on April 15, 2022, 01:57:19 am

It's too early to say if she has changed. She came here and tried to mislead us.

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Re: Margaret Noodin, Professor
« Reply #88 on: August 31, 2022, 03:33:06 am »
Title: Re: Margaret Noodin Ojibwe Professor
Post by: Cetan on April 15, 2022, 03:30:45 am

Meg is good at teaching the language and is fluent, if she hadnt been Hap and Howard and Alfonse would not have worked
with her at U of Michigan. She had been a good influence with students here encouraging them to learn and speak their
language

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Re: Margaret Noodin, Professor
« Reply #89 on: August 31, 2022, 03:38:18 am »
Title: Re: Margaret Noodin, Professor
Post by: shkodenhskwe on April 15, 2022, 04:34:51 pm

Quote from: educatedindian on April 15, 2022, 12:05:59 am
Quote
There's zero evidence of harming anyone. Just the opposite, her being forced to step down harms Ojibwes by taking away a language teacher.

You're certainly right that it's far better to have someone who grew up speaking the language teaching it instead of someone who learned it as an adult. But that's just not possible for more than a few NDN tribes in the US or Canada.

Hi, I only just created an account. But, I came here to politely request that you do not speak on behalf of Ojibwes if you are not one. I am one. And that is also the harm done here. Noori has spoken on behalf of our people and our language and has mined community elders to build her resume and she is not Native. Not one ounce. There are other voices that speak on behalf of themselves, and that is our way.

Thank you to everyone in this forum who has contributed.

I learn my language from my elders and my family. We absolutely do not need a non-Native person teaching our language.