Sale of sweetgrass and sage

[raven]

The above posted links do discuss some valid issues within the Native communities, such as the tourism and the pow wow circuits in regions west of the Mississippi River.
However the problem is much worse in the midwest.  With no tribal affillations, or real Native elders to oversee these issues.
Here in the midwest 98% of all pow wows are ran by non natives with next to none native people involved in their committees.

Here you will see imported jewelry and beadwork passed off as native.

Red pipestone pipes connected to their stems sold.

Vendors selling one hitters with beads or a little paint they added .

Competition pow wows where dark skinned people though not native ( greek, italian, ex.) will win monies that should have gone to real native dancers in the competitions.

Sweat lodges set up at the pow wows

"Sacred fires" burning at pow wows

Buffalo skulls in the middle of a dance arena.

"Medicine people" walking around "preforming" naming and wedding ceremonies.

This is just a small list of things that have plagued the midwest for several years now.
The elders that once lived here have either passed on or moved. Many of the pow wows are started by former boy scout leaders that do not have any real teachings of how to conduct nor run a pow wow. Many of these people that run these pow wows are in it to make a profit with no regards to the raping of our culture.
This problem is so huge that I personally get overwhelmed with disgust.
Here it is not the native people that are the problem, it is the white people.
They are the ones that are selling the sweetgrass, and sage.

[Ric_Richardson]

Tansi;

As my wife and I are working on the development of a Non Timber Forest Product (NTFP)industry, to assist with finding ways of developing economic initiatives, in our extremely poor region, I feel that I must respond to some of the concerns about the sale of Traditionally used plants.

We, as a result of discussions with many of our Northern Aboriginal residents, Elders and at places such as the International Gathering of Traditional Medicines and Healing, have chosen to use the Traditional Knowledge of our peoples to find ways of developing local and regional economic initiatives which will incorporate Traditional Knowledge in finding ways to enter the modern economy.  This decision was made with the help of many Prayers and much deliberation over the past several years.  

We believe that the Gifts of the Creator were shared with our people, in order for us to be able to Live.  As our modern reality does include the necessity of money, we look at items, which used to be traded for, to be able to be sold.  This does include Sweetgrass and Sage, as well as many other plants, used Traditionally in Medicines.

Our efforts are made, in order to find ways of including our largely unemployed (approx 70%) region to find alternatives to only relying on resource extraction, such as uranium, which is one of the main economic initiatives, in our region.  As exploitive resource extraction usually relies on the presence of socio-economic conditions, which exist here, such as high unemployment and poverty, coupled with a high population of Aboriginal people, we intend to find alternative economic initiatives to provide alternatives to only being able to work in the mines or in deforestation.   Another reason for our choice to sell Traditionally used plants, is to create ways of passing on our Cultural ways, at the same time as ensuring survival, economically.

We have been working in coordination with the Northern Forest Diversification Center, in Manitoba www.nfdc.ca who have been successful in providing economic benefits to hundreds of Aboriginal people, in Northern Manitoba, annually, based on their harvesting and selling natural products of their regions.  We are also working on having a National network of NTFP industries, which is incorporating standards, which will ensure sustainability and certification for naturally harvested plants.  In our efforts, we hope to achieve a balance of bringing Traditional Values to a Modern Society.  "Fair Trade" certification will also be an important aspect of our development.  We believe that the knowledge and work of Native people have value and through our own work with harvesting and using Traditionally used plants, we understand the true costs of harvesting, processing and using these.

When I was young, my father told me that I should never try to do anything "Native" to make a living because the only people who could make money off of Indians, were White.  I was quite grateful that my father was still alive when I was able to open a Native Arts and Craft store, on the main street of a city, where he lived.  The Creator never shared these Gifts with us, in order to have us live in poverty!

We do not support or believe in the sale of Ceremonies, but when participating in these, we do make sure that our gifts to Sweat and Ceremony leaders include some money, in order for them to purchase those things that cannot, any longer, be acquired by Trade.

Respectfully;
Ric

[Moma_porcupine]

Thanks for your respectful and thoughtful responses .  The commercial harvesting of sage and sweetgrass
in the Northern communities Ric is describing sounds like it has been well considered and guided by
traditional Elders , and I respect that .

Commercial enterprises like this do make it more difficult to educate non native communities that Native
traditions belong in Native communities and are not for sale , and it is also difficult when these traditional
Medicines are sold in territories where people are still uncomfortable with this .  

Personally , I will continue to practice the traditions as I was taught , and I won't be buying or selling
and sage or sweetgrass .  I guess no individual is likely to be harmed by smudging with a commercially
harvested product , but , I personally believe  there is a non monetary value in these traditions when they
come to us in a traditional way , and these values tend to get trimmed off when these things get bought
and sold . I guess for people who are not bothered by that , it would not matter either way .

I like the idea that this is certified and fair trade .   In the New Age stores I know that sell this ,
I would much rather see a product that is benefiting Native communities , instead of exploitive
non native harvesters .

[Ric_Richardson]

Tansi;

Thank you Moma Porcupine, for your opinions and concerns.  We have had to do a great deal of soul searching, prior to choosing to develop the NTFP industry, in our area.

We recognize that many of the plants that grow here, do not grow in other areas.  For those who have access to these, Traditional practices of trade are greatly encouraged.  However, there is a demand, which is currently being served by numerous non-native businesses, which may not have the same consideration for sustainability nor in fair trade.

For example, this past weekend, I met with a business person who tried to tell me that a daily income of $50.00 was the "standard" for those Aboriginal people picking Sweet Grass.  She tried telling me that this was the only way that she, as a business person, could make a profit.  We, of course, do not agree, which is why we have chosen to pursue the certifications of fair trade as well as sustainably harvested.  Areas used in harvesting will be managed in order to ensure sustainability, as well, in cooperation with governmental agencies, as well.

In our region, there is that, which I call the "politics of poverty" which seems to encourage a high level of unemployment and poverty, in order to be able to take our resources for next to nothing.  As uranium, oil and timber developments are controlled mainly by multinational corporations, there are very limited benefits coming back to our Aboriginal population.  In spite of billions of dollars worth of resources being extracted annually, we continue to have excessive levels of unemployment and all of the social problems associated with this.

We believe that, with certified products, we will be better able to educate the buying public as to why products, produced in an ethical Respectful manner by Aboriginal people, should demand a higher price than those sold for strictly commercial purposes.  We liken this to the difference between corporate farms and organic produce.  It is our expectation that there will be a demand for certified products, which are demonstrated to contribute to Aboriginal peoples and businesses.

As well, there are going to be those, who remain in their communities, in spite of job opportunities which would require them to move away.  A strong NTFP industry, as well as Aboriginal eco-tourism could help to allow them to remain in their communities, while being able to find ways of self-sufficiency, economically.  

Currently there are very few opportunities to find economic benefits to learning and preserving our Culture.  What we are working toward, is to help to ensure Cultural survival, while finding ways of living in a society in which money is integral to a decent standard of living.

[Ric_Richardson]

Tansi;

Here is an article which speaks about this issue.

http://www.ammsa.com/buffalospirit/February-2000/sweetgrass.html

One of the Elders quoted, the Late Joe Cardinal, from Saddle Lake, Alberta, was one of my cherished teachers and a good friend to many.

Ric

[walking-soft]

Ric_Richardson, 'siyo

What you have spoken is so true. So many things have been and are becoming extinct. It is wonderful to know that your work is to bring back and share the sweetgrass with those who do not have it.

The Eagle for an example was on the brink of extinction and with the help of the American Indian as well as other nationalities, working together, have now brought the bald Eagle, a sacred bird to American Indians, back from the brink. In doing so many were taught why the Eagle is so important to the American Indians.

We can use these things as great teaching times for those who really want to know about traditions. One has to listen to there own heart to know who these people are.

Thank you so much for your posting and knowledge.
                                   Wado

[raven]

Migwitch Ric up in Grandmother's country,
Wado Joseph and Walkingsoft, for your positive inputs.
This subject is about intent, just as the cup I am now drinking coffee out of does not make it sacred, yet if it was used in a sacred ceremony then it would become sacred. The intent of what we use is what makes it sacred.

[Moma_porcupine]

The articles accessible through the above link posted by  Ric Richardson ,
are interesting .

I want to respect that other people may have different traditions around the
sale of traditional Medicines such as sweetgrass, however , in this article
about the cultivation and sale of sweetgrass plants ,it sounds to me like
there is many traditional people in that area who are strongly opposed to
commercializing these traditions .
For example this article says stuff like;

"For every person who condemns me there are the people out there who want to grow
it and they contact me."

If , for everyone who bought something from a small business in my community ,
someone else condemned it , I would assume there was something about this business
that was really offensive to a lot of people .

And there is defensiveness throughout this article , repeatedly saying that these folks
are not making a living off the grass , they would not like to see it in a florists shop ,
and the people they sell to respect the sacredness of the plant .
Clearly there are some undercurrents going on here that would not be there ,if what was
being sold was roses or fish .

I see the publisher of buffalospirit says he knew nothing about his own culture up
until a few years ago and he names as his Spiritual teachers , Joe Cardinal ,
Devalon Small Legs ,and Ed McGaa .

http://www.ammsa.com/buffalospirit/February-2000/welcome.html

http://www.ammsa.com/buffalospirit/February-2000/motherearth.html

Ed McGaa is someone who shows up a couple times in this NAFPS website listed under frauds .
and also under Needs investigation .

http://newagefraud.org/cgi-bin/forum/YaBB.cgi?board=frauds;action=display;num=1117195884

http://newagefraud.org/cgi-bin/forum/YaBB.cgi?board=frauds;action=display;num=1116720656

My own observation is that in many tribes , Native culture no sooner stumbled to its feet ,
after being devastated by residential schools and loss of traditional life style ,
than along came the temptations of monetary gain and prestige to once again knock things
off balance .

Elders Joe Cardinal and Devalon Small Legs, both sound like they are genuine
traditional Elders who deserve a lot of respect and who share many good traditional
teachings ,but , that Ed McGaa with his seemingly dubious reputation , is promoted as one of
this groups named Spiritual teachers , in a publication geared towards guiding disconnected
Native people back to their traditions , makes me think there may be some gaps in what this
group of people knows .( generally speaking this publication gives excellent guidence )

There is also a lot of pressure on Elders to go along with the desires of
not so traditional community members

http://www.ammsa.com/buffalospirit/index.htm

What is below is copied from the above link
---------------------------
In the past, the knowledgeable ones would get up and chastise participants and say,
that is not the way it is supposed to be. Many of these knowledgeable ones are gone
now or the remaining ones are too scared or frustrated to make corrections.

We used to have back-up and support systems for making corrections. There has been a
lament for many years about this fear of correcting because there's no safety.
The whole system that was set up to validate and reinforce that voice of authority has broken
down. That's what is really missing.

Many of the Elders, even the strongest ones, are letting the misconceptions go.
They are scared because of the aggression of the young people. ........

Indian culture is such a commodity today and worth big bucks as
one knowledgeable one stated. Many of our "Elders" are not in it for the right reasons.
They are in it for the money and are not "pure of heart."

[Moma_porcupine]

Coming back to my own point of view ;

Obviously it is necessary to choose which elders we listen to . I do not think this is
disrespectful . It is just common sense .Even the best Elders have personal strengths
and weaknesses , and areas of expertise .

I was always taught that Native Spiritual traditions are not rightly bought or
sold , and this included sale of traditional Medicines such as sage and sweetgrass
for smudging . I heard this from many Elders , not just one , and I think there
is a good reason for this , as I believe the integrity and potency of these Spiritual
traditions is lost when they are combined with commercial enterprise and economic
development .

As I see it , Spiritual traditions are a collectively owned resource , and these
owners include generations not yet born. I do not believe that anyone , no matter
what position of authority they occupy ,has a right to exploit these traditions in
a way that is likely to degrade their non monetary value for other owners . I also
believe that all persons of Native descent , are rightful owners of these traditions ,
and as such have a right and a responsibility to protect these traditions .
I do not want to make anyone feel badly about selling sweetgrass and sage  
if this is a short term solution to meet basic needs for food and warmth , but
personally , based on the traditions as I understand them ,I cannot support
the planned use of Spiritual traditions as a means to economic development.
There are other ways to create economic development .

I can understand why Native communities might decide they may as well be the
ones to benefit from the exploitation of their own traditional resources and
knowledge . It is happening so often now ,these traditional plants are being sold
by non natives , regardless of Elders concerns . Maybe resistance is useless .
Maybe that is why those Elders in buffalospirit are saying this is Ok .  Maybe
they do know best , and opposing this just divides people who need to stand together .

I can see there might be some valid reasons to let these traditions go , and turning a
blind eye.

But , I just gota say ,seeing traditional sweetgrass braids for sale in a New Age
store beside crystals , plastic buddas and goddess tarot cards makes me feel sick
to my stomach .Other people may see this differently , but this commercialization
of traditional Medicine and especially mixing this with New Age gizmos ,and ceremonial
party games ,does not feel right to me , and I know many Elders are offened by this .

Unfortunately it only takes one or two Native Elders to officially sanction the sale
of some parts of Spiritual traditions , and when this happens , it makes it
impossible to effectively stop this commercialization in non native
communities . It seems there is always some authoritive elder some where ,
who likes expensive gifts , or who wants to stay friendly with their
friends , who says , whatever it is , it is Ok .

It is a very frustrating situation . In my last post , I felt pressured into sounding
more agreeable to this commercialization than I really feel . I do not like
to argue . People can think for themselves and will do what feels right to them .

Please Take care

[Joseph]

I have just caught up on reading the posts. Moma porcupine wrote

" But , I just gota say ,seeing traditional sweetgrass braids for sale in a New Age  
store beside crystals , plastic buddas and goddess tarot cards makes me feel sick  
to my stomach .Other people may see this differently , but this commercialization  
of traditional Medicine and especially mixing this with New Age gizmos ,and ceremonial  
party games ,does not feel right to me , and I know many Elders are offened by this ."

A good part of me agrees with this but part of me also said to myself that sweetgrass is a natural product, not a patented invented man-made item. Anybody can do whatever they want with it.

I don't know, just a thought, not trying to stir things up.

Joseph

[PLH]

I'm sure that opinions on this issue could be as diverse are we all are individually. While I do feel that an Elder can do what they pretty much want to, I have to agree with Mama on this one. To me, It would be like selling Roseries next to a book on satanic spells.  I am not catholic, but I am guessin the catholics wouldn't appreciate it much.

[Moma_porcupine]

Hi Joseph In response to yopur thoughts about a plant just being
a plant ;

What I am about to explain is just my own understanding of traditions ,
through observation. No Elder ever sat down with me and spelt this out , so use your own judgment , as my understanding of this may be incorrect . If this information does not belong in this forum , I do not mind if the moderaters delete this .  

I have picked sage and sweetgrass with Elders , and the way this was done was slow , and it would not be commercially lucrative . As I understand it, when these Medicines are picked you offer tobacco ,
and you explain to the plant why you need it .
At that point you have brought traditional energies in , and these energies need to always be treated with the up most respect . To put down tobacco , and then bring those traditional energies in ,
and them to send those traditional energies off , who knows where, to get mixed up with money and New Age , to my mind , is not respectful of
those energies .  

I believe those traditional energies are real and need to be treated with respect and kept in the culture , where they are nourished not dissipated.  I would guess those traditional energies dissipate real quick in a New Age store , or in New Age made up ceremony. Maybe next time you need them they might be real slow to return . Just my own feeling .
Respect is so important .

It seems to me , to pick sweetgrass or sage without putting down tobacco , and then to sell it for traditional smudge , is traditional form with no
traditional content . It is a hollow replica of the real thing .  Selling a hollow replica of the real thing is also disrespectful . If you were a Catholic would you sell a replica of the bread and wine they
use for communion , and justify this by thinking it had not actually been prayed over , so no real Spiritual energies were involved ?

Another thing I wonder about , is where did people get the idea that is unimportant how sage and sweetgrass are gathered and distributed .
Did you hear some Elders say that ? Is that your tradition ?

Think how these are used . We use them to purify the space and make the connection with traditional energies . For people who use these plants , they are used to open every ceremony . I think there is a reason these are picked and distributed in a prayerful way , and that the energy these are gathered with, is going to influence the ceremonies they are used in , and what energies are brought in. For that reason it would seem to me very important to keep plants used as smudge entirely clean .

And I have a correction to make. I posted this link to this web page , when I began this topic .

http://www.geocities.com/redroadcollective/SacredTobacco.html

I notice I missed something .

At the bottom of the page , after the section discussing the use and abuse of sweetgrass ,
I was very happy to see , it WAS mentioned that
the authors Grandma told her it is very rarely right to buy sacred things , and before people go out and buy these Medicines , they should ask themselves why they are needing to do this .

It is true , people cannot be stopped from gathering and selling these plants , but I think it is important this buying and selling is seen as an occasional aberration of tradition , and does not become the
norm .  

I am sorry to go on and on about this . I do not mean to argue , and people will do what feels right to them . I only know a bit , but what I know ,        I hang on to for dear life .  This feels important to me . Thanks for thinking about this .

[yellowthunder_bolt]

To one who knows little,

You seem to want to go on and on about the sage and seet grass. What about the cedar that we Cherokee use, tell me how do you "harvest cedar in a traditinal way", Many cedar trees have been here for many, many years, who planted them? What about the corn meal? The corn has to be planted and harvested and grind, what about the traditional ways of doing this??

Apparently all the knowledge you have is about sage and sweetgrass and what you say "your Elders" tell you. You are not Native that is apparent in the wat you write and with bigger issues as Raven stated why are you "stuck" here, is it you have no other knowledges???

I for one find this nick picking when there are much other abuses goeing on and even deaths in regards to all the frauds and plastic shamans. Why don't you talk about that?? Have you no other knowledge??

[Ric_Richardson]

Tansi;

I have always used tobacco, as an offering, while picking any of the plants (all of which are Sacred) which we use.

Unfortunately, in our region, tobacco does not occur naturally, so we have to buy it.  Generally, we have to buy it from a non-native store.  

At Medicine Gatherings, we also have seen tobacco and prints used as offerings to the various Healers.  There was even one non-native who set up a stand to sell these offerings.

From my understanding of M. Porcupine's words, she/he only believes that some non-native should benefit, financially, from the trade in plants that were used, Traditionally, by our people.

In our region, many of the Elders are very concerned that the youth are not learning about our Culture, mainly because they are busy trying to find a way of making a living in our severely economically depressed area.  We will continue to use Tradition, Culture, Heritage and History, in order to encourage Cultural survival, while using our Traditional Knowledge to find ways of developing a viable and sustainable economy.

Personally, I am getting very tired of going to the funerals of the many suicide victims who do not see any hope for a future.

Ric

[walking-soft]

Ric 'siyo,
I to give the offering of tobacco to any thing taken from Mother Earth. I have seen the deer hunters kill  with no respect for the deer or our Mother Earth, I have been in homes where hunters, hunt only for sport and trophy and it hurts my heart greatly. I go and offer tobacco to Mother Earth and Creator for all these things. yes store bought or I will take tobacco from a cigar/cigarette if thats all I have at the moment, for it comes from my heart that I do these things and i know that it is accepted as the Great Spirit comes to take these prayers away.

No I did not hear or feel "you take it back because it is store bought, you didn't obtain it right". The heart was in the right place doing a sacred and traditional way.

Yes I to am much more concerned about the rise in suicide, alcoholism, poverty, sickness, warmth and our elderly. The People is my concern all the while teaching and keeping our traditional ways.

Wado Ric you are a person of wisdom.

                                             J.A.