Sequoyah Trueblood??

[Defend the Sacred]

Note - some content that may be relevant to this thread is in among the tangents here: Re: Who Can Do Ceremony

[lerner]

educatedindian wote:

How hard is it for him to ask the website to quit lying about him?

I checked the links posted earlier in the thread, and I also did a google search of the site, and as far as I can tell they've removed all the offending material.

Lerner

[lerner]

nemesis wrote about the Kogi:

I wonder how they would feel about Trueblood's claims to be in telepathic communication with them?

 
Well, the Arhuaco are the closely related neighbors of the Kogi, and from what I gather, Sequoyah visited both communities. Here is a relevant quotation from an Arhuaco elder, translated literally from the Spanish:

We can communicate "telephonically" with, say, Spain, by means of the resulting Ayu's ether.

("Ayu" is coca.)

The full interview can be read here:

http://www.festivaldepoesiademedellin.org/pub.php/en/Corporacion/Universo_Arhuaco/karmeneng.html

So, from the looks of it, I would say that Sequoyah's claim may not be considered preposterous in the local context.

[nemesis]

nemesis wrote about the Kogi:

I wonder how they would feel about Trueblood's claims to be in telepathic communication with them?

 
Well, the Arhuaco are the closely related neighbors of the Kogi, and from what I gather, Sequoyah visited both communities.

So you think Truebloood might have visited the kogi?

Is there any evidence that he did?

Even if there is that does not mean that they have some special telepathic bond with him does it?

Here is a relevant quotation from an Arhuaco elder, translated literally from the Spanish:

We can communicate "telephonically" with, say, Spain, by means of the resulting Ayu's ether.

("Ayu" is coca.)

The full interview can be read here:

http://www.festivaldepoesiademedellin.org/pub.php/en/Corporacion/Universo_Arhuaco/karmeneng.html

So, from the looks of it, I would say that Sequoyah's claim would probably not be considered preposterous in the local context.

Well, you asked... 

Oh come on!

It's a huge leap to extrapolate that because Trueblood might have possibly visited the Kogi that they decided to choose him as the uniquely spechul and spirchul person who they are going to communicate with via telepathy.

You don't imagine that the subtext of such a tale is a just a little bit clichéd?

The interview doesn't even mention Trublood does it?

[lerner]

So you think Truebloood might have visited the kogi?

Is there any evidence that he did?

I'm reasonably sure that he did. As far as photographic evidence, you can look at the second picture from the left along the top of the page here:
https://www.createspace.com/234536

Also, for what it's worth (I can't provide evidence), I spoke with a Colombian woman who doesn't know Sequoyah personally but who was visiting the Kogi at the time he was there, and she confirmed that he was there and had been welcomed, from what she had heard, by some Arhuaco families in particular.

Even if there is that does not mean that they have some special telepathic bond with him does it?

In and of itself, no, of course not.

It's a huge leap to extrapolate that because Trueblood might have possibly visited the Kogi that they decided to choose him as the uniquely spechul and spirchul person who they are going to communicate with via telepathy.

I'm certainly not making that claim. He did visit the Kogi, and even more so the Arhuaco, but I do not know exactly what unfolded between them. I was just pointing out that something along the lines of "telepathy" (even with people in foreign countries) does seem to be a part of some Kogi/Arhuaco teachings.

The interview doesn't even mention Trublood does it?

No. (Actually I believe the interview was conducted years before Sequoyah visited.)

You don't imagine that the subtext of such a tale is a just a little bit clichéd?

Sure, and I agree that this is a good reason for healthy skepticism. In this case, Sequoyah did visit the community in question. As for whether he's in telepathic communication with them, that's a bit hard to assess.

[nemesis]

So you think Truebloood might have visited the kogi?

Is there any evidence that he did?

I'm reasonably sure that he did. As far as photographic evidence, you can look at the second picture from the left along the top of the page here:
https://www.createspace.com/234536

That photo doesn't prove anything though does it?

All it proves is  that trueblood had his photo taken with some brown skinned people who may be Kogi, they may be actors or some other people.

Even if they are Kogi all it proves is that 2 of them posed for a photo with him.

This may be news to you but it is a common feature of frauds that they pose for photos with people whose reputation they want to exploit.

It doesn't just happen with indigenous people it happens with martial artists too. The head of the lineage of the martial art I train in will happily pose for photos with people who attend his workshops, but is often surprised when those same photos turn up on people's websites to indicate that the person who attended a 2 week workshop is now some kind of badass grand master.

In fact using / abusing photos in this way, in terms of martial arts frauds and new age frauds, is so common that no discerning person actually places any credence on photos such as the one you linked to and many native people refuse to pose for photos for exactly this reason.

Also, for what it's worth (I can't provide evidence), I spoke with a Colombian woman who doesn't know Sequoyah personally but who was visiting the Kogi at the time he was there, and she confirmed that he was there and had been welcomed, from what she had heard, by some Arhuaco families in particular.

I'm afraid that you're going to have to do much better than that.  Second hand anecdotal reports from posters with a dubious history will not count for much here or anywhere else.

Even if there is that does not mean that they have some special telepathic bond with him does it?

In and of itself, no, of course not.

Thank you for at least acknowledging that.

It's a huge leap to extrapolate that because Trueblood might have possibly visited the Kogi that they decided to choose him as the uniquely spechul and spirchul person who they are going to communicate with via telepathy.

I'm certainly not making that claim. He did visit the Kogi, and even more so the Arhuaco, but I do not know exactly what unfolded between them. I was just pointing out that something along the lines of "telepathy" (even with people in foreign countries) does seem to be a part of some Kogi/Arhuaco teachings.

I'm pleased to hear  that you are not making that claim because from where I'm standing there is no evidence to prove any kind of bond, telepathic or otherwise, between Trueblood and the Kogi.

You don't imagine that the subtext of such a tale is a just a little bit clichéd?

Sure, and I agree that this is a good reason for healthy skepticism. In this case, Sequoyah did visit the community in question. As for whether he's in telepathic communication with them, that's a bit hard to assess.

How can you advocate healthy skepticism while at the same time claiming that he did visit the Kogi (so far a completely unproven claim) and also say that it is "hard to assess" whether the Kogi are in telepathic communication when there is no evidence whatsoever to validate such a claim?

I think your definition of "healthy skepticism" is somewhat different to otehr people's.

[lerner]

Hi nemesis,

You wrote:

I'm afraid that you're going to have to do much better than that.

Why? I'm not sure where you got the idea that I'm trying to "prove" that Sequoyah visited the Kogi and the Arhuaco, but I'm not. I initially responded to your comment about Kogi telepathy by providing additional information on that subject. You than asked me specifically if I had any "evidence" that Sequoyah visited the Kogi. In response, I provided a link to that photo and mentioned one of my other sources. Did you think I thought that tiny photo constituted incontrovertible proof? No, of course not. I linked to it simply to respond to your request for evidence.

As for why I am confident that Sequoyah did visit the Kogi and Arhuaco, well, I have had independent, extensive conversations with at least five different people who were there while Sequoyah was there. Some of these people didn't even know Sequoyah but encountered him at large meetings and independently confirmed various details about his trip. I've also seen dozens of photographs of his trip. But to reiterate, I'm certainly not asking you to consider what I'm saying here as proof. I encourage you to do your own investigation.

You wrote:

How can you advocate healthy skepticism [...] and also say that it is "hard to assess" whether the Kogi are in telepathic communication when there is no evidence whatsoever to validate such a claim?

Right, there is no evidence to validate the claim of telepathy. I said that the claim is hard to assess. That's because it would be logistically quite complicated to set up a satisfactory test, among other things. If you disagree, could you say why?

[lerner]

EducatedIndian wrote:

ST does some good with some work some of the time. But that doesn't hide the fact that he lives an EXTREMELY well off cushy lifestyle, a luxury townhouse in one of the cushiest places the the country with a pool bought from selling ceremonies and working with frauds like Boylan and Fisher.

Then EducatedIndian wrote:

ST has (or had) a luxury towhhouse in Laurel Maryland. Is that article lying, or is ST lying to you and not letting you know he has it or had it? The source of that article is a psychiatrist, John E Mack, who spoke with ST and got his permission to put it in a UFO book. Info on Mack: http://www.johnemackinstitute.org/center/center_news.asp?id=227

According the the information included in EducatedIndian's original post, the story about the townhouse took place in 1970. Based on what I know about Sequoyah's life, this would have been right after he returned from Vietnam, and right before he lost much of what he had at the time of that story. More to the point, this was well before he started doing any sort of teaching or conducting ceremony. In other words, the issue of what house he lived in in 1970 is pretty much irrelevant. Is there any evidence that Sequoyah has lived a "cushy" lifestyle at any time in the last three decades?

[educatedindian]

educatedindian wote:

How hard is it for him to ask the website to quit lying about him?

I checked the links posted earlier in the thread, and I also did a google search of the site, and as far as I can tell they've removed all the offending material.

Lerner

That's interesting. There is no mention of him at the site, nor of the ceremonies they (ST and the center) sold. No mention at all, so we don't know if
a) ST asked the site to remove the material and they finally did, but he still works for them
b) he no longer works for them, so the site can't sell ceremonies from him
c) everything at the site is simply being updated and the ceremony selling and ST will show up later.

But the timing is extremely curious, coming right after our debate with an ST supporter. Even more curious is if one looks back at all the other sites ST is on. At all of the previously posted links except one, they are now gone. Removed, no longer existing.

The obvious explanation is one we've seen here at NAFPS before, lerner. An exploiter calling herself Amylee hired one of those reputation defender services, along with a lawyer specializing in internet law, and systematically removed all references to herself selling ceremony online.

That all of those sites could simultaneously stop mentioning ST and his ceremony selling is far too big and ridiculous a coincidence to imagine, even more ridiculous than your claims about ST and the Kogi. (The one exception to that is the wovoca.com site, which I'm happy to see is finally down in its entirety.  It means Wm Anderson has finally been unable to convince people to keep funding his offensive nonsense.)

So the next question becomes why would ST or those working on his behalf do this? Hiring such a service certainly doesn't fit with the super spirchul selfless image he's built up. It obviously means he has some money, or those working on his behalf are willing to spend it for him.

And if you have those supposed photos, or supposed accounts of meetings, let's see them. Until then, it's just incredibly convenient claims from an ST supporter. I would also like to know your stake in all of this and why you go to such lengths to defend him. After all, you joined and posted a dozen posts to defend him or ask about ceremony in short time, while admitting it is an issue which you don't know much about.

Your email when you joined also has nafps in the address. Some might consider that a deliberate attempt at impersonation or identity theft, or at least trying to spread confusion by possibly going around pretending to be us.

So to proactively prevent you from doing that, I will post your email address here, so everyone knows you are not acting upon NAFPS's behalf.

nafps@oib.com

We also need to consider whether to ban you for what seems to be a deliberate attempt at identity theft, unless you can come up with an explanation fast. Until then, you are barred from posting, but not from signing in or viewing posts. Sign in and contact a mod, ASAP.

Your email address is also from a service that advertises it alows the user to create "an unlimited number of disposable email addresses." So it seems ST is using someone with a desire for internet intrigue and disinformation. Again, sure shoots a lot of holes in the whole superspirchul act of his.

[Superdog]

Just going to interject one more thing.  The createspace link that Lerner posted above is actually a page to buy Sequoyah's DVD (The Path of Peace).  $29.95 for the DVD and $25.00 for the poster of the DVD.

Mighty expensive...as well as mighty commercial.

Doesn't bode well for those arguing that he doesn't profit off of what he does.

Superdog

[Walked Away]

I was the Fire Keeper at the AIM Sun Dance in 1997 when Sequoyah danced his third year there.  It was the fifth or sixth time I'd been around him during ceremony, the first having been some ten or fifteen years earlier.  I'd had him come to our home a time or two where he did some teaching with some other people.  His girlfriend at the time, Marlin, from Canada, was full-blood, though I don't remember her tribe.  She once said, "If you have ANY Native blood, you have more than Sequoyah."

Sequoyah had reserved four or five motel rooms in Pipestone for him and the folks he'd invited.  I paid my bill for my motel room, but when I got home and called Sequoyah to say "thanks" and to see how he was doing, he said I was the only one of his guests who paid for their motel room, and he was still at the motel because his girlfriend had changed her mind about letting him use her credit card, and he was stuck with a $1700 motel bill which he couldn't pay and they weren't going to let him leave without paying it.  He said he was going to see a rich lawyer friend who would be more than happy to pay me back if I would go ahead and pay his motel bill.  I explained that we just couldn't afford it right now, but eventually I yielded and he promised me a reimbursement within two weeks.  That was the last I heard from him.

I think this is a good site for helping people avoid frauds, etc.  But everyone needs to keep in mind that we're all stupid humans, hopefully at least trying to quit being quite so stupid.  1997 was a long time ago and I'm sure Sequoyah, like all of us, has learned a lot since then.  But then, people shouldn't try and pretend to be something they're not, and they shouldn't take advantage of good people, who might not be so quick to offer help in the future as a result, and like me, they may step away from ceremony for a long time after something like this happens.  Even good hearts with the best of intentions, can be foolish.  Let's hope we all learn Respect and practice it.

[Layman with a laptop]

I had the pleasure of meeting this guy in Santa Fe. He also claimed that he was a Green Beret in Nam.

[educatedindian]

Could you tell us a bit more? Did you meet him when he was selling ceremony? At one of his UFO gatherings?

As of 2010 he was still selling ceremony to UFO types, a "dance of peace" with other dubious types.
http://goldenageofgaia.com/2010/06/the-conscious-convergence-gathering-greenwood-village-co/

This one he was posing as a Mayan expert. So now that makes Cherokee, Mohawk, and Chotaw ancestry he claimed, plus to be teaching Kogi and Mayan ways, and also peddling Lakota ceremony before.
The first two claims of ancestry he seems to have dropped, only claiming now to be Choctaw.

A 2013 book describes him at a UFO conference with noted fraud Diane Fisher/Dyani Yawahoo. But there's no date mentioned for when the conference was.
http://books.google.com/books?id=6-kkOBKTjK0C&pg=PT396&lpg=PT396&dq=%22sequoyah+trueblood%22+ufo&source=bl&ots=IdIucQeWB6&sig=F0VuCYKpdYuLDYEn4cCOohdHrzg&hl=en&sa=X&ei=_Dx9Ue_bLo7A4APa74CQBg&sqi=2&ved=0CFQQ6AEwBQ

[loudcrow]

I spent several hours last night researching the genealogy of ST. He is descended from Albert
Trueblood born 1831 and his wife Carolina Elizabeth Totty. Albert is descended from Amos
Trueblood. Albert and Carolina migrated to North Carolina from England in the late 1600's and
were Quakers.

A son of Albert and Carolina, Albert Herschel Trueblood, was born in 1872 in Reeseville, Texas.
He married Mary Jane Muncrief, daughter of Sam and Margaret Hall Muncrief. Mary Jane is
listed on the Dawes Rolls as being 1/4 Choctaw:

Dawes Card Information

tribe last first middle age sex blood card roll misc type
Choctaw Muncrief Margaret 0 F 130 P
Choctaw Muncrief Sam 0 M 130 P
Choctaw Trueblood A H 0 M 130 P
Choctaw Trueblood Caroline 0 F 130 P
Choctaw Trueblood Albert H Jr 1 M 1/8 130 273 PURCELL BB
Choctaw Trueblood Pauline 1 F 1/8 130 274 PURCELL BB
Choctaw Trueblood Sam Muncrief 1 M 1/8 130 272 PURCELL BB
Choctaw Trueblood Bryan Sewell 2 M 1/8 130 14193 PURCELL BB
Choctaw Trueblood Roy G 5 M 1/8 130 14192 PURCELL BB
Choctaw Trueblood Mary J 24 F 1/4 130 271 PURCELL BB
Choctaw Trueblood A H 26 M IW 130 IW515 PURCELL BB

iw=intermarried white, a general nontribal description
bb=by blood
p=parent

Albert and Mary Jane had a son, Roy Gilbert Trueblood who was born
on July 19, 1893 in Garvin, Oklahoma. He also appears on the Dawes
Rolls as being 1/8 Choctaw. Roy married Glessie Winnie Clinton/Clifton
who was born on May 22, 1893 in Lee, Virginia.

Roy and Glessie had a son, Sequoyah Euvaughn Trueblood who was born
on November 16, 1922 in Choctaw, Oklahoma. He married Amy Mills Tucker.
These are the parents of the ST being researched.

1900 United States Federal Census about Roy Trueblood
Name: Roy Trueblood
Age: 6
Birthplace: Indian Territory, Oklahoma
Home in 1900: Township 6, Chickasaw Nation, Indian Territory
Race: Indian (Native American)
Gender: Male
Relation to Head of House: Son
Father’s Name: A H Trueblood
Mother’s Name: Mary Trueblood
Occupation: View on Image
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
A H Trueblood 28
Mary Trueblood 26
Roy Trueblood 6
Bryan Trueblood 3
Sam Trueblood 2
Albert Trueblood 3/12
Source Citation: Year: 1900; Census Place: Township 6, Chickasaw Nation, Indian Territory; Roll: 1849; Enumeration District: 155; FHL microfilm: 1241849.

1910 United States Federal Census about Roy Trueblood
Name: Roy Trueblood
Age in 1910: 16
Birth Year: 1894
Birthplace: Oklahoma
Home in 1910: Perry, McClain, Oklahoma
Race: Indian (Native American)
Gender: Male
Relation to Head of House: Son
Marital Status: Single
Father’s Name: AL H Trueblood
Father’s Birthplace: Texas
Mother’s Name: Mary Trueblood
Mother’s Birthplace: Oklahoma
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
AL H Trueblood 38
Mary Trueblood 36
Roy Trueblood 16
Bryan Trueblood 13
Sam Trueblood 12
Bert Trueblood 10
Paulene Trueblood 8
Downard Trueblood 5
Alonzo Trueblood 3
Source Citation: Year: 1910; Census Place: Perry, McClain, Oklahoma; Roll: T624_1261; Page: 1A; Enumeration District: 0188; Image: 549; FHL microfilm: 1375274.

World War I Draft Registration Cards, 1917-1918 about Roy Gebert Trueblood
Name: Roy Gebert Trueblood
County: McClain
State: Oklahoma
Birthplace: Oklahoma;United States of America
Birth Date: 17 Jul 1893
Race: Indian (Native American)
FHL Roll Number: 1851807
DraftBoard: 0

1920 United States Federal Census about Roy Trueblood
Name: Roy Trueblood
Age: 26
Birth Year: abt 1894
Birthplace: Oklahoma
Home in 1920: Elk, Oklahoma, Oklahoma
Race: White
Gender: Male
Relation to Head of House: Head
Marital Status: Married
Spouse’s Name: Glessie Trueblood
Father’s Birthplace: Texas
Mother’s Birthplace: Oklahoma
Home owned: Own
Able to read: Yes
Able to Write: Yes
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
Roy Trueblood 26
Glessie Trueblood 26
Hope Trueblood 2
[2 2/12]
Evelyn Trueblood 0
[4/12]
Source Citation: Year: 1920; Census Place: Elk, Oklahoma, Oklahoma; Roll: T625_1473; Page: 5A; Enumeration District: 107; Image: 415.

The Trueblood and Muncrief surnames appear as being Choctaw in the Dawes Roll. There are
no Cherokee with these surnames on the Dawes Roll.

[willbfree]

I had the pleasure of meeting this guy in Santa Fe. He also claimed that he was a Green Beret in Nam.

There's an article about Sequoyah Trueblood's military service and 1976 court martial in Vol. 6 No. 3 of Veteran (March 1986 issue). Thought it was marijuana use in Korea that got him into formal trouble, the article explores just how far down he was spiraling following the recommended use of amphetamines in Vietnam during his time in the Special Forces.

It seems there are people with opinions about whether his decision to change course and embrace his father's Native heritage was a shift made honestly, or if it was some kind of scam to keep himself going after his military path was permanently closed to him.

He seems to have always been very open that his mother was white, and that he had no interest in his father's Native side until after he left the service. (It was his father's obituary, by the way, on the earlier page - Sequoyah Euvaughn Trueblood is the son).

He seems to have been open about how his preachings are ones learned on the road from dabbling in many different cultures, rather than being strict versions from any particular faith. As an outsider, it seems to me that people like him are called frauds, but his offense is more precisely that he is heretical. He's a heretical half-Native American.

Putting aside the tribal politics, he has a heck of an interesting story in any case.