Mala "Spotted Eagle" Pope & Nanish Shontie

[Late Worm]

earthw7,  that's a big question.  I think you could spend a lifetime trying to figure it out.  The way I look at it is that we're talking about two very different things - one is the actual life experience of a native person or community, and the other is this very capricious entity born of popular mass-media culture called "Indian."  The first is real and the second is a phantasm - an idea that has no form or substance.  Somewhere along the road I learned to keep the two things apart in my thinking - not to confuse them.  Rather than believing that Native Culture was somehow threatened by cultural appropriation I just see a bunch of folks chasing phantoms of the European cultural imagination. 

That said, however, I'm saddened to see how many Indians themselves have bought into the popular culture imago of "Indian."  I guess that's the price paid when TV hit the rez.  And now we have the internet.

[Epiphany]

Quote from earlier in thread:

Rolling Thunder's grandson Sidian Morning Star Jones wrote a book with Stanley Krippner "The Voice of Rolling Thunder: A Medicine Man's Wisdom for Walking the Red Road". They say John Pope was born in Stamps, Arkansas on 19 Sept 1916.

I've found confirmation that I have the right John Pope in mind:

Name:   John Walter Pope
[John W Pope]
SSN:   543012754
Gender:   Male
Birth Date:   10 Sep 1916
Birth Place:   Stamps, Arkansas
Father Name:   Clerance W Pope
Mother Name:   Blanch V Canter
Death Date:   23 Jan 1997
Type of Claim:   Original SSN.
Signature on SSN Card:   JACK POPE
Relationship of Signature:   Signature name differs from NH’s name.
Notes:   May 1937: Name listed as JOHN WALTER POPE; 06 Feb 1997: Name listed as JOHN W POPE

(Source Information
Ancestry.com. U.S., Social Security Applications and Claims Index, 1936-2007 [database on-line]. Provo, UT, USA: Ancestry.com Operations, Inc., 2015.
Original data: Social Security Applications and Claims, 1936-2007.)

This is a white family several generations back. Maybe more in depth genealogy and family interviews would come up with actual distant heritage, I'm not seeing any.

RT / JWP married several times, possibly four.

Mala's mother is Helen S. Hernandez, she died in 1984.  In a 1937 Indian Census Roll she is listed as 1/4 Shoshone, heritage through her mother. I uploaded an attachment clip of this census.

Helen S Pope
California Death Index
Name   Helen S Pope
Event Type   Death
Event Date   15 Aug 1984
Event Place   San Francisco, California, United States
Birth Date   16 May 1922
Birthplace   Nevada
Gender   Female
Father's Name   Hernandez

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VG1N-PW9

[Piff]

Discussion of his son Red Wolf Pope: http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=5241.0

[Piff]

Both Nanish Shontie and Nanish Shontie Land Trust are active in Oregon state: http://egov.sos.state.or.us/br/pkg_web_name_srch_inq.do_name_srch?p_name=NANISH&p_regist_nbr=&p_srch=PHASE1&p_print=FALSE&p_entity_status=ACTINA

Current president of Nanish Shontie is Angela Walker. Secretary Abram Heard.

Current president of Nanish Shontie Land Trust is Abram Heard. Secretary Winter Pope.

[Piff]

In the 1937 Indian Census Roll Mala Pope's mother Helen and her family:

Indian Census Roll
Census of Non Reservation Shoshone Area
Northeastern Nevada
Reservation of the Carson Agency jurisdiction
as of January 1, 1937, taken by Alida C. Bowler, Superintendent

Hernandez Caterino Mexican
Hernandez Nora Shoshone 1/2
Hernandez Helen Shoshone 1/4
Hernandez Leo Shoshone 1/4

In the category "Allotment, annuity, and identification numbers" Nora, Helen, and Leo are listed "Unal." which I assume means "unalloted".

Nora's entry was later crossed out and handwritten  words added "Died 2-15-38"

---------
The 1940 Federal census also captures this family. Nora is listed as alive in this.
Caterino is listed as Mexican from Mexico.
Nora, Helen, and Leo are originally listed as Mexican from Nevada, that was later crossed out and W was added in for them.

[Piff]

I should clarify the above post.

I don't know for certain if I have the right Helen (Hernandez) Pope family here. There are date discrepancies.

Professional genealogy work would need to be done.

What matters is apparently Mala Spotted Eagle and his son Red Wolf are not enrolled.

[Piff]

So we have:

Helen S Pope
California Death Index
Name   Helen S Pope
Event Type   Death
Event Date   15 Aug 1984
Event Place   San Francisco, California, United States
Birth Date   16 May 1922
Birthplace   Nevada
Gender   Female
Father's Name   Hernandez
California Death Index

-------------

Helen Hernandez
1937 Indian Census Roll, Non Reservation Shoshone Area
Birthdate 23 May 1923

-----

Helen Hernandez in same family group as the 1937 Indian Census Roll
estimated birth year around 1924
----------

A genealogist would need more records to tie this up or not. Then the records would go to whatever tribe they are claiming.

Here Red Wolf is referred to as White Knife Shoshone:  http://nativenews.tumblr.com/post/158535773061/in-standing-rock-we-needed-the-masks-for-the

[verity]

A quick note on Mala, he died in 2019.

Posted here https://www.registerguard.com/news/20190521/for-record-may-22-2019

Pope — Mala Pope, 66, of Eugene, died May 17. Arrangements by Andreason’s Cremation & Burial Service in Springfield.

And also on his Facebook:

Mala Spotted Eagle
May 20 2019
As some of you know, Mala has passed onto the Spirit World.

Mooseman, do you know the names of  Sidian Morning Star Jones' parents? Thank you for warning us about him.

[verity]

I do think Mala was his uncle. I have no proof of anything other the screen shots of the harassing and Doxing he did to me. I’m actually kind of nervous still talking about it but felt this was the safest place and that your community needed to know that his family is still trying to exploit the ndn heritage. I would want to k is if someone was exploiting my family.

The Oregon corporation Nanish Shontie Land Trust has been in administrative dissolution status since 12-12-2019. Their other corporation Nanish Shontie is also inactive, since 5-14-2020.

Sidian's parents are verified also in one of the books he wrote with Stanley Krippner, it states that his parents are Morning Star "Bundy" and Russell Jones.

I notice that Krippner is also involved in this project with Sidian Jones https://mymythoskids.com/what-is-personal-mythology/

What is the name of the Twitter account you mentioned?

Sidian Jones has a lot invested in maintaining the myth of his grandfather John Walter "Rolling Thunder" Pope. Harassing and doxxing critics does not change the fact that John Walter Pope lied about who he was. I'm glad that you are keeping screen shots of any harassment. You are in good company, some folks here have also been harassed for their work.

[Mooseman]

https://mixposure.com/jones-danby/store/95/nativ-american-nanish-shontie