Bobby Lake-Thom

[educatedindian]

I received this account. They asked to remain anonymous since the wife is deeply embarassed and will not discuss this publicly.

We now have several accounts of his poor treatment of women, so my initial skepticism of the first account was not warranted.

---------------

I met Robert Lake-Thom after reading his book, "Call of the Great Spirit." I contacted him via his website, nativehealer.net which now isn't active. I spent a great deal of time w/ him, and a great deal of money from 2006-2009.

I took my wife, who at the time was my girlfriend, to meet him for a doctoring session at his house. She had a problem with her upper back. First we had to "approach him with respect." Which is his term meaning to paying for his services. About $300. The doctoring took place in his living room in the evening. He turned off the lights and used candles for light. My wife wore a skirt and shirt. He made her take off her shirt for the ceremony. He did ask me if that was ok, which I agreed. She wore a bra during the whole time. I thought about stopping him but since I really believed in him and wanted my wife to be healed, I allowed it to go on. He only touched her on the back. However, she was very uncomfortable during the whole time. I do believe if I wasn't there it would have been more involved.

Robert Lake-Thom, he likes to be called Bobby, asked my wife to go with him to a woman's house who contacted him via his website for help. When they arrived, first thing he did was asked for a donation. He then counted the money if front of her to make sure it was enough for his doctoring. She had asked for help concerning her low back. He then had her take her shirt off, leave her bra on, and take off everything from the waist down. So, she was completely naked except for a bra. He then asked her why she shaved her pubic hair? He then had her lay on her back and spread her legs. He then spread her labias apart with his fingers to take a look inside in order to see what was wrong. He used his bare fingers even though he stated she may have had an infection. My wife was so appalled at that moment she left the room and doesn't know what else happened. He shared that information with me as well. My wife never went with him for any more doctoring sessions. I have talked to him a lot about medical problems. He knows nothing about infections or western medicine. He had no idea what to look for.

Robert Lake-Thom as of last year lives in Dixon, CA. His website had his address there so people could send "donations" to him. He required this before helping people online or "distance healing." I knew him from 2006-2009. I contacted him via his website that he listed in his book. He only spends time with a few followers. He doesn't associate with any well known healers. He likes to be the center of attention. He married a woman who has the house in Dixon. He moved in with her there and drained her of all her savings and equity on the house. He has a small sweatlodge in the back yard for ceremonies. He had a couple apprentices at the time. A lady in San Diego area who he taught the moon time ceremony which she now charges for women to attend. 

He does have some healing ability. His ex-wife, Tela Donahue (formally Tela Lake), is a well known medicine woman. But she also has the same demands for those who ask for her help, in the way of donations.

[Fisher]

To EducatedIndian,
I don't know if you received my email in regards to details about my experience with Bobby Lake-Thom 
My thoughts were that you may have blew me off..or just didn't get the email.
I am relieved to see that there are others starting to speak up.
Thanks for having this site and all you do. And in fairness.
 

[educatedindian]

I received an account  from Megan James, a former follower of Charlie Thom, about abuse done by Bobby Thom's father, Charlie Thom. It appears that the abuses Bobby Thom did, molesting women in the lodge, were part of a pattern first done by the father, Charlie. And the circle around Charlie Thom apparently knew and "dealt" with it themselves.

She says she is willing to come forward publicly, which is quite brave. What follows are two emails of hers. They have not been altered in any way besides corrected typos.

----------
In 1984 in sweat lodges conducted in Mt. Shasta , CA I had the unfortunate experience of being sexually molested by Charlie Thom three times in the lodge no less. Years later when he was conducting sweats on the land of Ugala Schwartz in upstate NY where I live I requested audience with group who'd been working for and with him for years to process and get closure on my experience but was denied the opportunity by Ugala.

While I believe great teachers can commit the errors pf any human I believe they should be held accountable. My experiences sweating with Charlie Thom were extraordinary and worthwhile prior to the sexual molestations which i found particularly heinous for being perpetrated in the lodge during ceremony with the group.
For what its worth I bring this to your attention.
Megan James

-------
Im certainly willing to step forward Mr. Carroll for what its worth. Its been, however about 28 years or more. Though there was a lodge full of people it was pitch black. The friends I told at the time chose to back Charlie Thom. One of those two friends is dead the other i have no idea how to locate. I am poor and sick in NY and as far as I know Charlie Thom and crew are in California. As I mentioned when he was here in NY some 20 years ago Ujala Shwartz and her crew blocked me from confronting me telling me "The community has already dealt with this" meaning there had been numerous other woman who'd had similar experiences to mine and they didnt want to be botherd with my attempts to get personal healing and closure...
 Megan

[Epiphany]

Bobby is often "Robert G. Lake" in public records. Born 1944.  Past residences include California, Oregon, Spokane Washington.

Robert G. Lake
Robert G. Lake Thom
Neequitc G. Lake (on a marriage record)
Robert George Lake
Bobby Lake-Thom
Bobby Lake
Medicine Grizzlybear
Medicine Grizzly Bear
Bobby Thom-Lake
Medicine Grizzlybear Lake

Charlie Thom refers to Medicine Grizzlybear as "one of my former apprentices" in the book Native Healer: Initiation Into an Ancient Art (check in google books for preview, in Charlie Thom's foreword). So is it possible that Bobby Lake-Thom isn't actually Charlie Thom's son? Although I see them referred to as father & son elsewhere. Anyone know for certain?

Charlie Thom also writes in that forward that Medicine Grizzlybear was "trained and taught by sixteen different elderly medicine men/women from different tribes". The voices of the ancestors therefore speak through him.". This sounds to me like it is aimed at the Nuage marketplace, the marketplace that assumes that more = better and that all tribes are ultimately the same.

( Update: Bobby does refer to Charlie as "my father" http://funkman.org/animal/books/spiritsoftheearth.html )

[moreinfo]

Bobby lLake-Thom,aka medicine grizzly bear, is currently being promoted as a wisdom keeper for one of Erick Gonzalez's spiritual business's called Earth Peoples United (tju),

here is Bobby Lakes web site "native healer"it is also listed on Erick Gonzalez's earth peoples united "wisdomkeeper"link

http://www.nativehealer.net/

http://www.earthpeoplesunited.org/wisdom_keepers/4-medicine-grizzly-bear


Erick Gonzalez's other "spiritual business" for profit is called Mayan Shamanism

http://www.mayanshamanism.com/

Erick Gonzalez also has his own forum dedicated to him, it is listed on the NAFPS fraud site

http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?PHPSESSID=nku11ohcqoatnhgp0godj9a0u6&topic=3420.0

Bobby has participated in Erick's youth programs at Erick's "Deer Mountain"at Mt. Shasta in Cali. in August.
maybe it would be a good idea to notify local police and warn the public of him attending this event and any other upcoming events Bobby is listed to attend since he is being exposed as a possible sexual predator/offender

this upcoming tele marketed sweat lodge event being put on by erick gonzalez and his Earth Peoples United organization may be worth watching to see if Bobby Lake Thom is still involved and promoted as a speaker/wisdom keeper

file:///E:/Sweatlodge%20Teleclass%20Series%20with%20Tat%20Erick.htm



Earth Peoples United presents:
Grandmother's Hearth
The Mysteries of the Sweatlodge

   
A series of seven (7) 90 minute TeleTeachings with
Earth Wisdom Keeper Erick Gonzalez
 
Wednesday evenings 5:30-7 pm PST
April 17th - May 29th
 
All classes are given over the phone and also recorded as downloadable audio files.

The purification (sweat) lodge is found in most cultures around the world. Join us on a journey of understanding how the sacred mysteries of the lodge become our university, our hospital, and our church. This teleclass series is being shared to support our deeper connection with the sweatlodge ceremony as we search for balance and healing, and prepare ourselves to go home... into the spiritual womb of Mother Earth.

 

Class topics & dates:  (All classes will be by phone on Wednesdays, will start at 5:30 pm PDT/ 6:30 MDT/ 7:30 pm CDT/ 8:30 pm EDT and last 60 min followed by 30 min of questions.)

    Introduction: The Womb of Creation                   April 17th (4 Noj)
    The Spirit Lodge: House of Wisdom                     April 24th (11 Kat)
    Grandfather's Den: Fire Lodge                          May 1st (5 B'atz)
    The House of the Bundles: The Altar                 May 8th (12 Tijax)
    Grandma's Womb: The Sweatlodge                  May 15th (6 Kan)
    Medicine Bundle: Sacred Tools                          May 22nd (13 E)
    The Tapestry of Life: Weaving it All Together      May 29th (7 Kawok)   

Cost:
$144 Special Offer for paid members of Earth Peoples United
Regular class price is $175.
 
Calls will be also be recorded and sent as downloadable audio files to all class participants.

Click HERE to register as members of Earth Peoples United!
Click HERE to register at the normal price of $175.

 
For more information, contact HeddiL@gmail.com or call  530.459.3471
~
 
This Teleclass series will be followed by an in-person sweatlodge building retreat at Deer Mountain (north of Mt Shasta) from
May 31st-June 7th.  Stay tuned for details! 
 
 

 
   

[earthw7]

I feel so sorry for the people who have no center to look to these people for help,
so many are being fooled and give their money to these people for help, I am thankful for this site everyday

[jenifersrosess]

I feel so sorry for the people who have no center to look to these people for help,
so many are being fooled and give their money to these people for help, I am thankful for this site everyday

I have read here the bad experiences women have had. Being a woman, I totally understand. Yes, all are very brave to speak about it.
I did not have this experience myself with Bobby Lake-Thom. I did not ever meet in person with him. I only was in contact via e-mail. He did talk about women's moon time- I did not ask about this. But given my age, maybe he assumed this would be helpful. (I stopped having moon cycles very early in life). But, other than that I had an uplifting and positive experience.
My Father whose name was Bobby, had just died when I first contacted him. I was also having much problems from my Mother and I was hurting inside. I had some bird incidents that happened at that same time, as well as some ghost or spirit problems in my home. I asked Bobby Lake-Thom for his guidance, wisdom in helping me understand about the birds, the ghost or spirits, my Mother and my Father's death.
I cannot say enough good things about Bobby Lake-Thom in my personal experience via e-mail with him. He explained a lot to me and was very helpful. He was very kind, giving and actually fatherly towards me. He helped me find peace and restored my inner self. He worked with me a lot and he gave of himself that he did not have to. He really reached out to me and if it was not for him, I would not have been o.k. He was there for me. I have such deep respect for him and what he did for me. To this day, I still regularly use the wisdoms that he taught me.
I have read about the money issues. This man has a heart and cares about people. He never once asked me for money. On my own, I had told him I had little money at the time and I felt bad that I did not have anything to offer him for his help. He did not have to help me and he did so to great lengths.
I feel very fortunate to have been helped by Bobby Thom-Lake. I am sorry for the other women, in your experiences. I hope you heal from this.
There is goodness inside and this man has a lot to give to the world and I believe good will come out of this. Sometimes being cleansed by the fire of truthfulness is needed.
About the new age aspect: I understand tradition is important. As the world changes, this creates new energies and I believe he sense these things. Our creator gives different gifts, some of visions, and I was given a gift of perception.
Much of what I read in Bobby Thom-Lake's predictions has come true but it was later on "in time".
What I think on, is when there is the possibility of war, such as his prediction of WWIII; there are a lot of variables and total destruction very well could have happened and still can, if we as people do not make good choices. It is a miracle, that WWWIII has not yet happened. Currently, we read about things going on in other countries and even here in America, such as the disclosure of certain people's e-mails and phone calls being recorded; and American money and planes and weaponry being given to other warring countries. Who knows when one country or another might decide to go to war and then this could lead to WWWIII. I hope not. I hope this never happens. This is volatile times and all countries are walking carefully, to prevent a new war. Much of what he predicted then, is beginning to come true "now". Animals behaviors and the weather has changed now. We just had a meteorite just miss the Earth this year- it was very close.
As a whole Nation, when one hurts- we all hurt.
When I last lived in Niagara Falls, NY, my friend Michael who was part of Pow Wow TV in Brooklyn, NY and then buried in his homeland on the Lakota burial ground in the Dakota, once told me something that I will never forget, "Words. Words are energy that go out into the Universe. Be careful of words, because words energy can cause both good and harm". I miss him. I really do. But, his words seem to apply now.
Peace to all,
Jenifer Bice (Bias), Oakdale, CA

[debbieredbear]

Jenifer,

Having an email relationship with someone is vastly different than an in person one. So while you had a good experience, you never were alone with him, never were in ceremony, and so don't know what that would be like. I am glad your experience was positive, but that does not negate anything the others have said.

[Late Worm]

When I first heard about Robert's claiming Charlie as his father it went like this:  "Hey did you hear that Bobby Lake married Charlie Thom?"  It was pretty funny at the time.  Well - Bobby thought his credibility quotient would go up if he associated with Charlie.  Ironically back home on the River (the Klamath) Charlie has little credibility.  When it comes to traditional matters the Yuroks and Karuks and Hupa are very strict - the traditional people there know that Charles does not have the "power" to teach or mentor traditional religious matters or any sort of 'medicine."  No offense to Mr. Thom- that's just the way it is.

Bobby hails from back east - New York State I believe.  Part of his family is Seneca and I understand there are some Cherokees in the wood pile too.  He studied at Cal State Hayward in California's first "Native American Studies" program.  One of his classmates I know told me that Bobby showed up to his class dressed in a business suit - very strange bird that one.  Armed with a Bachelors degree in Anthropology he made his way to a cushy job at Humboldt State.  You have to remember that in the seventies with so many colleges offering NAS courses there was a big shortage of Native Americans with proper academic credentials - so an Indian could get hired as a lecturer with a BA.  By the late 70 Humboldt State told the NAS faculty (Jack Forbes and Bobby Lake) that they had to get MA degrees so they both enrolled in an academically suspect MA program run in Marin County - which consisted of monthly seminars on Jungian psychology.  Pretty bogus I think - I once tried to discuss Jung's major writings (The Bollingin Series) with Jack Norton - but he had never heard of read Jung's works.

Then Bobby got in trouble at the college. Some female students filed a sexual harassment complaint against him and he lost his job.  These students also were members of a group that were trying to help Calvin Rube stop the construction of a major logging road which ran from Gasquet to Orleans (the GO road).  As an Indian Doctor and ceremonial headman Calvin was as authentic as they come.  It was Bobby who convinced Calvin to come down to speak to students about the road.  Bobby had been spending a lot of time up at the Rube ranch with Calvin.  But later Bobby began to claim that Calvin was "training" him to be a Doctor.  This really made Calvin angry - as Calvin once told me he did not have the proper "power" to train.  Anyway after the GO road lecture an entourage of students began hanging out at the Rube Ranch - allegedly "helping" but realistically participating in cultural tourism.  In the community at least some folks referred to them as "flies."  What happened was that Calvin was so angry at Bobby that the students set out to undue Bobby.  I visited Bobby in his office just after the sexual harassment charges surface and offered to intervene on his behalf - I was on good terms with Calvin and I knew many of the students who were behind this. But Bobby declined - asking me to stay out of it.  It cost him his job.

After that his career was in shambles.  I think he got a teaching position in Spokane but it looks to me like he decided to jump on the commodification of Native culture for his livelihood. 

[earthw7]

http://nativehealer.net/Healer2005/about.html
About Medicine Grizzly Bear
A Traditional Native Healer and Indian Doctor

Medicine Grizzly Bear Medicine Grizzly Bear,also known as Bobby Lake-Thom is a traditional Native Healer from northwestern California. He is half Karuk, part Seneca, Cherokee, and (part Anglo) and is documented and recognized on the BIA records. He was taught and trained by numerous Native medicine men/women, Native ceremonial leaders, and Tribal Religious leaders.

Some of his teachers included Beeman Logan, Rolling Thunder, Mad Bear Anderson, Martin Highbear, Charlie Red Hawk Thom, Calvin Rube, Bonita Masten, Yurok Holyman Dewey George, Florence Jones (and numerous other medicine men/women from different tribes). His apprenticeship spanned two decades and then he was culturally and spiritually tested, evaluated, recognized, and confirmed as an Indian doctor or Native Healer on Doctor Rock, Chimney Rock, Trinadad Head, California; Seneca Mountain/Thunder Rock, in New York, and finally, on Mt. Shasta, California. (For a better understanding of the significance, role, function, and status of “Bear Doctors” or “Bear Medicine Men” refer to the Shaman's Drum article (Winter, 1993) “Digging for Medicine: Bears in Native American Healing Traditions” by David Rockwell. If you want a better understanding about "Indian Doctors and Shamans", Refer to the works of Alfred Kroeber (1928, 1942, 1976), Williard Park (1946), Joan Halifax (1978) and the research of other anthropologists.)

Bobby has conducted hundreds of ceremonies and lectures. He has been successfully doctoring Native people and non-Indian people for over twenty years. According to Indian custom and law he does not charge a fee for his doctoring and ceremonies, but according to the “law of reciprocity” donations are usually offered in lieu of a fee for his healing work, spiritual counseling, and ceremonies..

He is the author of Native Healer (Quest Books, 1992) Spirits of the Earth (Plume/Penguin, 1998) and Call of the Great Spirit (Bear & Company, 2001). His numerous literary works have appeared in The Indian Historian, White Cloud Mental Health, The Shaman's Drum, Teacher's Magazine, Educator’s Digest, The Quest/Theosophical Society Magazine, Akwasasne Notes and Akewekon Literary Journal, Herbs Magazine; Humboldt Journal of Social Relations, and numerous other
scholarly journals and magazines.

He was a professor of Native American Studies for over 20 years teaching at Humboldt State University, Gonzaga University, and Eastern Montana College. He has served as a consultant for Indian reservation programs, tribes, organizations, and federal/state agencies for over twenty five years in the areas of Indian health, education, social services, natural resources, religion, BIA 638 Programs and contracts, and realated grant writing and development.

[earthw7]

I thought we had a post on this person but could not find it

[debbieredbear]

I found it . Will try to merge threads.

[Sparks]

There is another thread about Bobby Lake-Thom (Robert Lake-Thom) active from 2007:

http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=1372.0

[Sparks]

I thought we had a post on this person but could not find it

I found it . Will try to merge threads.

As noted a couple of times before, there still is another thread about Bobby (Robert) Lake-Thom:

http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=818.0

[Sparks]

There is another thread about Bobby Lake-Thom (Robert Lake-Thom) active from 2007:
http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=1372.0

For the record: The above thread has just been merged with this one, so everything is now here:

As noted a couple of times before, there still is another thread about Bobby (Robert) Lake-Thom:
http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=818.0