Author Topic: Expanding the Site, Needs Permissions, Suggestions  (Read 20564 times)

Offline educatedindian

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Expanding the Site, Needs Permissions, Suggestions
« on: August 09, 2006, 09:04:04 pm »
I'm finally getting to expanding the sections Known Frauds and Articles using all the information Trish is passing to us. Sorry for the delay, but it's for good reason, and with good news. My first book will be coming out this year. Medicine Bags and Dog Tags: American Indian Veterans from Colonial Times to the Second Iraq War should hopefully come out from University of Nebraska Press by the end of the year.

Below is what I think should be the setup for the two expanded sections. Let me know what yall think, if it should be changed in how I group the different exploiters, if anything needs to be reworded.

I also need permissions from all our regular posters, if you want, to post your comments you've made in here on some of these frauds. I think it'd be helpful, for example, to have the comments of Cherokees that Chief Silly Name is wrong when he sells sweats.

Onto the setup: For Known Frauds, classified like this:

Abusive or Dangerous Cults: The worst of the worst, these groups exhibit all or most of the signs of Cults, isolating their followers, controlling their finances or heavily pressuring them into "giving" money, sexual assault or molestation (often under the guise of ceremony) or heavy pressure into sex with cult leaders, violence or the threat of violence including being heavily armed.

Imposters: Those who pass themselves off as American Indian medicine people or elders when they are not.

Frauds: Those who make false claims about Native beliefs or practices for money or power.

Exploiters: Those who may actually be Native or even have some knowledge of ceremonies, but choose to exploit ceremonies for profit or power.  In few cases, they may even have once been considered elders within their communities until selling out.

Questionable Ethics: These persons or groups may not be entirely bad. In some cases they actually do some good work, and may have some residue of respect within Native communities for past good work. This does not change the fact that their selling of ceremonies is unethical and objected to by the very same communities.

Sections Under Articles:

Warnings Signs-Various articles from different Native authors
Printable Flyers
General Articles

Offline piya

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Re: Expanding the Site, Needs Permissions, Suggest
« Reply #1 on: August 10, 2006, 02:59:42 am »
Looks okay to me, well thought out
To Old To Die Young

Offline AlaskaGrl

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Re: Expanding the Site, Needs Permissions, Suggest
« Reply #2 on: August 10, 2006, 01:05:36 pm »
Sounds great Al !  

I suggest an area with information on how to go about (for those that don't know) contacting the various Nations.  Also information on that Nations stance on Frauds and Wannabees.  At work now.. may think of other things later...

Linda  

Offline Freija

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Re: Expanding the Site, Needs Permissions, Suggest
« Reply #3 on: August 10, 2006, 03:41:57 pm »
Congrats on you book, Al!! ?
It all sounds great to me. It will make NAFPS even better than before ? ;)

Annika

frederica

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Re: Expanding the Site, Needs Permissions, Suggest
« Reply #4 on: August 10, 2006, 04:04:49 pm »
Impressive. frederica

Offline Moma_porcupine

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Re: Expanding the Site, Needs Permissions, Suggest
« Reply #5 on: August 10, 2006, 06:33:30 pm »
I am really glad to hear the information that was on the Gohiyuhi site will be coming over here !
I have missed being able to use that as a point of reference !

Lindaa , I think your idea of listing contact people and official tribal statements about frauds and how to
recognize exploiters , is really excellent .  Would it be possible to even approach tribes and Elders and ask for something like this ? It would really help to have a truely authoritive point of referenece for people , and unfortunantly the exploiters tend to be a lot more pushy and loud mouthed than the true traditional leaders .

(Like the idea of a NAFPS " Don't pay to Pray" , bumper sticker idea , mentioned in another thread ,
too ! )

Quoting part of Al's first post

Quote
Imposters: Those who pass themselves off as American Indian medicine people or elders when they are not.
 
Frauds: Those who make false claims about Native beliefs or practices for money or power.

It would make sense to have a separate catagory for fake tribes , but if it is not a fake tribe , I am wondering if it might work better to  have just one catagory for both imposters and frauds , as it seems like often the imposters are also presenting fraudulent teachings and ceremonies , and would need to be listed as both a fraud and an imposter .

Quoting a bit more from Al's first post

Quote
Exploiters: Those who may actually be Native or even have some knowledge of ceremonies, but choose to exploit ceremonies for profit or power.  In few cases, they may even have once been considered elders within their communities until selling
out.
 
Questionable Ethics: These persons or groups may not be entirely bad. In some cases they actually do some good work, and may have some residue of respect within Native communities for past good work. This does not change the fact that their selling of ceremonies is unethical and objected to by the very same communities.

Also I am wondering if it might work better to just have one catagory for people who are who they say they are, and who have some real teachings , and may have done some good , but are also doing some things that creates problems . This could be the outright exploitation of selling ceremonies or maybe in some cases could just be a vivid description of some of the problems caused by some of these people , authorizing people outside of a Native community to lead ceremonies. This one catagory could maybe include both "Exploiters" and "Questionable Ethics".

I don't know if this would work or not , and maybe it would be better to keep those catagories as already stated , but it is some thoughts .  

Congratulations on your book ! Must feel good !
« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 12:00:00 am by Moma_porcupine »

Offline AlaskaGrl

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Re: Expanding the Site, Needs Permissions, Suggest
« Reply #6 on: August 10, 2006, 06:49:38 pm »
Quote

Lindaa , I think your idea of listing contact people and official tribal statements about frauds and how to
recognize exploiters , is really excellent . ? Would it be possible to even approach tribes and Elders and ask for something like this ? It would really help to have a truely authoritive point of referenece for people , and unfortunantly the exploiters tend to be a lot more pushy and loud mouthed than the true traditional leaders .

Like the NAFPS " Don't pay to Pray" , bumper sticker idea too !


It makes people shut up when you wave an official tribal statement in front of their noses.  So yeah I would like to see statements there to bolster points with these people that want to go with the frauds.  Just having a  list of the "Official" recognized tribes would be handy too along with contact info in case someone out there has a question about this or that.  And what tribes do sweats and which ones do not?  It would be good to see sweats covered and the abuse there as well.  There seem to be alot of "retreats" that offer them like they do coffee (another Indian invention).  

Well lets get some bumper stickers cooking..   Have to find a company, find out what the set up and impress fees are for however many.  Anyone here know a print shop?    

frederica

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Re: Expanding the Site, Needs Permissions, Suggest
« Reply #7 on: August 11, 2006, 12:11:19 am »
Before thinking of printing, may need to consider had to handle distrubution. If you give these out at some of these PowWows, your life may be in danger. lol. frederica

Offline AlaskaGrl

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Re: Expanding the Site, Needs Permissions, Suggest
« Reply #8 on: August 11, 2006, 12:23:05 am »
Quote
Before thinking of printing, may need to consider had to handle distrubution. If you give these out at some of these PowWows, your life may be in danger. lol. frederica

actually Frederica, mine and a friends life were threatened and endangered by spirchul Pagans for two years under the tuteledge of their spirchul poobah.  We're pretty much hated round these parts for being opinionated and telling it like it is and not being "followers"  but no, we, nor I, would ever go in their lairs to distribute literature among such spiricul enlightened masses - we'd be burned at the stake. ? I didn't mean passing them out at Pow Wows. ? I meant having the material in the book for readers.  I do not think there are any real Pow Wows in the Southern end of Florida.  If I was fortunte enough to go to a Pow Wow  it'd be to a real one.  

Lindaa :)
« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 12:00:00 am by AstronomyGal »

Offline educatedindian

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Re: Expanding the Site, Needs Permissions, Suggest
« Reply #9 on: August 11, 2006, 04:55:02 pm »
Thanks everyone. Sure does feel good to see my book finally getting out there.When I get the announcements from the book co I'll post them here.

We'll add a section Elders' and Tribal Councils' Statements and Warnings. Also a Fake Tribes section, plus maybe a warning about Would Be Tribes on how to avoid groups led by Lola Scholl types.

About a section on how to contact tribes. The BIA does have a list of recognized tribes with contact information. Usually that's a PO box, sometime a phone number, not too many email addresses or homepages. Myabe we'd need someone to be willing to look all that up. Volunteers?

Another thing, a lot of these tribes wouldn't answer. No resources, no budget, turmoil in tribal politics, other priorities esp with the way some people would put their questions: "I had a dream telling me I was Indian in my last life. Is Chief Silly Name a good person to give me my power animal? Are his prices reasonable? And if he isn't could you recommend a good guru? Thanks and Meetakoo Ohyaysin!"

About the permissions to add people's comments. Nobody's answered on that one. Don't know if it was overlooked or it's OK with everyone. I hate to presume anything, but if people want to opt out of me quoting them, you can IM or email me.

Offline debbieredbear

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Re: Expanding the Site, Needs Permissions, Suggest
« Reply #10 on: August 11, 2006, 05:02:23 pm »
I missed that. Of course you have my permission.

Offline AlaskaGrl

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Re: Expanding the Site, Needs Permissions, Suggest
« Reply #11 on: August 11, 2006, 05:32:54 pm »
I too can be quoted...  must have an autographed copy and when it comes available I will add a link to the publisher site where they can buy the book directly    ;)    

Offline Barnaby_McEwan

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Re: Expanding the Site, Needs Permissions, Suggest
« Reply #12 on: August 12, 2006, 06:49:29 pm »
Congratulations on the book, Al! I hope it'll be the first of many. Also I hope there'll be room on the site for a humour section, especially the Newagespeak/plain English dictionary.