Southern Cherokee Nation of KY?

[lostcherokee]

well if you was reconozed in the 1800's then how come kentucky has never had you as a listed state tribe and why would you have fletcher reconize you again he does good to remember that he is govenor.

and again what about the letter from mcconell where is the rest of it

[Buffaloheart]

Reply to Lost Cherokee:

The Governor of Kentucky does not need your approval to recognize Indian Tribes. The Governor of Kentucky is the duly elected chief executive of Kentucky. Does Governor John Y. Brown also need to remember who he is.......he recognized the Southern Cherokee nation of Kentucky on December 26th, 1893! The incumbent Governor Ernie Fletcher upheld the late John Y. Brown's recognition within the main body of a Proclamation issued to the Southern Cherokee Nation of Kentucky on November 20th 2006. And by the way, why do you think the good Kentucky Governor issued a proclamation to the Southern Cherokee Nation during Native American Month?  Think!

[educatedindian]

BH, basically you avoided answering any question at all, preferring instead a show of being offended.

State "recognition" is often vague, often worthless, and sometimes dangerous because it unwittingly helps groups that are frauds. The constitutional authority to recognize tribes is strictly federal. States usually have no standards, and what would be tribes show off as "recognition" are usually vague thanks to would be tribes for being a heritage group, or even for contributing to tourism.

I'm still waiting for Sun to answer. Are the two of you both members of the SCNKY?

[Buffaloheart]

We are “Original Principle People??? and we should not have to work to earn the recognition we are already deserving of. Our birthright as Native Americans has always been one of sovereignty and freedom. I think many of us get a certain feeling of validation as Native Americans when we are recognized by a legislative jurisdiction. It is an old cliché but being Native American really is a matter of the heart. The problem is that some of us are living in poverty and having a Native American heart is not going to get the medical bills paid or even put one of our children through medical school. Recognition from the Executive branch is much like having a Native American heart in that it makes one feel good, but it still does not get our Elders in to see the doctor. Executive recognition is also cost effective for the host government and provides good public relations for politicians, but does little in the way of real help for my people. However, we as Southern Cherokee are thankful for every crumb of bread tossed our way; because we are that much closer to getting the help we so desperately need for the health and welfare of our Elders and children.  We as the Southern Cherokee Nation are not trying to moor a paddle boat on the banks of the Ohio River so that we can conduct illegal gaming, or even open a casino. We are spiritual Native American people and we are true of heart. Some folks appear to be native, but their hearts have been hardened much like the white man.

Buffaloheart

[lostcherokee]

Buffaloheart,
 
You bring up some good points and a few different but interesting points,
I am not questioning who you are or what you stand for,BUT I AM questioning you saying you are state recognized, The paper work in question says you are recognized as beign in the state of ky.And the other letter NOT ALL OF IT IS THERE.And i have contacted Mr. flecthers office and there reply was...............


      Thank you for contacting Governor Fletcher's office regarding your concerns about a group calling themselves "The Southern Cherokee Nation of Kentucky." We appereciate your concerns and you taking the time to contact our office with this issue.


      In order to give this matter the attention it deserves,I have forwarded your concerns to the appropiate staff for review and response. In the meantime, if you have additional questions,please contact me


    And  that was on Jan. 26 2007,
and i do have and remember the persons name and number, and so far  it is still beign checked.

Now if you was State Recognized they would have actual records and would remember it and know what i was talking about,But then again this is Kentucky and Fletcher we are talking about too. 

[lostcherokee]

Almost forgot have contacted Mitch McConnells office and a few other offices  and its either dont have a clue what im talking about or no reply at all..............

[Buffaloheart]

I think the Southern Cherokee Nation documents speak for themselves:

http//www.southerncherokeenation.net/histdoc.htm

http://www.southerncherokeenation.net/NA%20Heritage%20Commission.htm

Buffaloheart

[Buffaloheart]

One of my links did not take here is the other. And so that all will know Michael "Manfox" Buley is our Chief. he is the Vice-Chair of the Kentucky Native American Heritage Commission. I would call him as well.

 http://www.southerncherokeenation.net/histdoc.htm

[weheli]

being Cherokee I can only speak of Cherokee. I did find this article perhaps it will shed some light.

Resolution No. 14-00 was adopted by the Cherokee National Council in 2000 to establish policy in response to the numerous individuals and entities claiming to be a new Cherokee tribe, clan or association. This resolution reads: “BE IT RESOLVED BY THE CHEROKEE NATION, that as a matter of policy the Cherokee Nation shall not endorse, acquiesce or support for federal or state recognition any other group, association or club which identify themselves as a separate tribal identity for purpose of having a government to government relationship because of Cherokee ancestry.

Leon Jones, Principal Chief and Dan McCoy, Tribal Council Chairman, Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians testified in front of the Senate Committee on Indian Affairs hearing on S. 611 in 2000. You can read the transcripts.

Excerpts:
“However, there are also many groups seeking recognition that by even the most liberal standards absolutely do not qualify as historic Indian tribes. The federal government is tasked with the difficult job of distinguishing between the "wannabes" and the legitimate groups. This is particularly problematic for the Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians, as a large number of the petitioning groups use the word "Cherokee" in their name. Below is the list of groups that have actually petitioned the Bureau of Indian Affairs for Federal Tribal Recognition who either use the word "Cherokee" in their name or who claim to be Cherokees ….

“In my state of North Carolina we have well known groups seeking recognition that can not speak a single word of their claimed Indian language, that can not repeat to you a creation legend that is unique to their people, that have no dance, or song, or burial practice that is unique to their claimed tribe. Even if you found a one hundred year old member of their group, he or she could not speak to you in that tribe's language because it never existed. What is it that we are preserving in this case? What would this "tribe" do that would be unique or different from any small town government? These are not insignificant questions.

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I know what you have heard about Kentucky, that there were no Indians there. That is a lie. The Cherokees lived there their "Capitol" was Burnside, KY. Most lived below the Cumberland River. Shawnee owned most of the are above the Cunberland. A white man, named Filson, was a land speculator, and in order to sell more land in KY he wrote a book, which he sent to europe to entice more whites to KY to buy land. In his book he said that there were NO Indians in KY, that it was owned by an ancient white race, and the Indians stayed away from KY. Well, of all thing Filson was killed in KY, by of all people, the Indians that were not there. I am from Lawrence county where there is a small town called Cherokee. My folks came from what is now Perry County, but was then, 1887, it was Clay County. The village my Grandfather wasd born in was Telequah, Ky, Now it is Viper.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------I was born in the Cherokee Nation, in Kentucky, at bleast it was in the 1600 and 1700's. That doesn't make me a Cherokee. I am 3/16 Cherokee by blood, I would not be a member of a Federally recognized tribe, if I could. Reason: God has blessed me and my family. We have everything that we need. I have grown up in the white mans world, and have lived, and been accepted as such. I would not accept federal benifits under any circumstances. I don't deserve it. I have had many blessing that recognized Tribal members have not had and, never will have. I have had good jobs, owned several homes. bought many new cars, and many more things than I can name. I just want to be close to , and help my Native Brothers and Sisters. God Bless them all. I have heard that the CNO is great at accepting those who are willing to come and fellowship with them as long as no strings are attached, and as long as you don't ask to be enrolled. That's enough.  So there is/was a Cherokee Nation in Ky?
Wado, Harold

I have also emailed several people as to these posts.
                                                                 Weheli





     

[educatedindian]

BH,
I'm not questioning whether you're NDN or not, and yes, federal recognition has little to do with that. About half of all NDNs are not enrolled. If you'd read our Intro, Who We Are, you'd see that we don't particularly care about cards or CDIB. Many of us aren't federally enrolled, including me.

But if a group is neither federally recognized nor recognized by the tribes who are, it usually is not a tribe. It's usually a heritage group or social club. Sometimes it's what might be called "a family reunion deciding it's a tribe". If it were to continue to stay together several more generations AND be recognized by the culturally closest recognized tribe, then in my view it would actually be a tribe.

[BlueWolf]

BH,
I'm not questioning whether you're NDN or not, and yes, federal recognition has little to do with that. About half of all NDNs are not enrolled. If you'd read our Intro, Who We Are, you'd see that we don't particularly care about cards or CDIB. Many of us aren't federally enrolled, including me.

 I figured you would have atleast been a member of the Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma and thus have some backing to most of what you post.

 I'm really confused about what this site is really doing.  From the looks to what I have read...it seems to be causing a division between cherokee, whether fullblood or mixed.  This is not the way of the Great Spirit.  Sure, there are many, many Cherokee brothers and sisters who are not members of the Federal Tribes, but that certainly doesn't make them any less Cherokee than you or I. 

  If a group springs up, so what?  As long as they don't do anything illegal, who cares?  No I've seen some good, strong evidence of so-called Cherokee tribes basicall gone defunct.  Thank you for allowing us to read about that. 
Blue Wolf

[Childish name calling edited out.]

[Buffaloheart]

Many people have asked for our history.  This is now it was told to my parents William & Ethel Buley, by my grandmother Josephine Martin.

 
 
"After the Civil War General Stand Watie signed a Cease Fire Treaty with the U.S. Army, that is why we never surrendered our flag, or our arms.  They agreed to protect us in this Treaty.  Which they did not do, we were forced out of Oklahoma by the Pinn Cherokee.  They were burning our homes and killing our People.  The word went out through James Samuel Martin (Great Grandfather of Chief Manfox), that a delegation of the Southern Cherokee Nation were going to meet at Fort Smith Arkansas, asking the army to honor the treaty to protect us from the Pinns.  They informed our people they did not have the troops to do that, and for us to see to yourselves.
 
A month later 75 wagons left Fort Smith, some stayed in Arkansas, some went to Missouri, some went to Tennesse and the remainder came to Kentucky...Carrying our flag, seal and our Constitution.  It was fall of 1871, General Watie had died.  We arrived in Kentucky early winter.  Some of our family had hid out in caves and such and had remained in Kentucky after the removal.  On our return from Oklahoma, we were welcomed home by our cousins (family) that had remained here.
 

We have sit here out of everyones way, almost secretively, for over a hundred years.  We would still be unknown, if it weren't for all these other groups calling themselves Southern Cherokee.  And these are the facts, backed up by our documents."
 

Oral tribal History by Principle Chief Manfox Buley

[weheli]

BH,
I heard that a "Cherokee tribe" I believe it is Southern Cherokee nation of Ky has also found some very old sacred scripts. Would that be this tribe or another. if it is your "tribe" can you give me some information as to these scripts?
                                                                               Wado Weheli

[Needs More Caffeine]

  If a group springs up, so what?  As long as they don't do anything illegal, who cares?  No I've seen some good, strong evidence of so-called Cherokee tribes basicall gone defunct.  Thank you for allowing us to read about that. 
Blue Wolf

[Childish name calling edited out.]

My two cents...a group springing up is fine.  A "Cherokee descendants club" is fine.  A "Cherokee culture club" is fine.  A group of people who acknowledge that all Cherokees are cute, witty, and have great taste in shoes is fine.  Etc.

BUT a group calling itself a "tribe" is making a legal claim.  A tribe has a governmental status, a particular legal status in relationship to the federal U.S. government.  This is a claim to an inherent sovereign governmental and legal status predating the U.S.  When a tribe which has that inherent sovereignty, and has never deliberately abandoned it, is wrongly denied recognition by the U.S. government, it's a tragedy.  Groups that falsely claim this sovereignty, when their ancestors willfully abandoned their nation, or when they never had such sovereignty to begin with, do harm to groups that deserve to be recognized.  They make it harder for groups that do have inherent sovereignty to be taken seriously by the general public.  People who falsely claim to have tribal status in terms of inherent sovereignty are making a fraudulent LEGAL claim about themselves.  They are inherently illegal.  They harm unrecognized tribes who do possess and nurture their inherent sovereignty.

It's not a matter of culture alone.  It's not a matter of race at all (except insofar as Indian governments are legally treated as having a more limited sovereignty than white ones).

It's a matter of mocking government structures and misleading people.  For instance, if I set up something I called the North Florida Traffic Court and, with a bunch of my extended family, adjudicated traffic cases, it would be wrong.  I would be pretending to have a governmental status I don't have.  Likewise, one who claims to be a tribal office is claiming a governmental status and position.

I'm not a lawyer and this isn't legal advice.  This is just my understanding of the difference between a tribe and some other kind of cultural group.

[Buffaloheart]

BH,
I heard that a "Cherokee tribe" I believe it is Southern Cherokee nation of Ky has also found some very old sacred scripts. Would that be this tribe or another. if it is your "tribe" can you give me some information as to these scripts?
                                                                               Wado Weheli

Oginali,

I have heard from one of the Elders that Chief Manfox has some very old historical documents and that is all I know on this subject.

Yanisa