Roy Wilson - Medicine Wheel Tribe

[Epiphany]

Roy I Wilson married Cherilyn in 1993, he was 65.

http://m.kitsapsun.com/news/1993/apr/06/for-the-record/

(edited out possible false lead)

More on what Roy says about his ancestry:

http://www.indianaffairs.gov/cs/groups/public/documents/text/idc-001707.pdf Anthropological Technical Report Cowlitz

In 1995, Roy said his great grandmother was Felicia Pechet.

As a Skloutwout descendent, Roy I Wilson is distandly related to Cascade families such as Marsha William and Ronald Aalvik. While he is a metis descendent, his father was enrolled at Yakima.

[Epiphany]

More on the ancestry claim:

One child, Peter Garrand (-1854-3873) married Felicite
Pichet, who, records indicate, was the Indian daughter of a
métis couple at Cowlitz Prairie. Their son, William Rae (b.
1876) was raised by the non-Indian family of Ben Wilson
after Felicite's remarriage.2 His grandson, Roy I. Wilson,
was General Council President until 1982

http://www.indianaffairs.gov/cs/groups/public/documents/text/idc-001707.pdf

[debbieredbear]

hmmmm, it  does not say she was Cowlitz, just "metis", so I am wondering what tribe she was related to, and how much NDN she was.

[Epiphany]

Here's better context (the pdf is a bit hard to work with) :

The fourth category includes the descendants of Cowlitz
métis and Indians who resided in the Cascade Mountains and
the Dalles. All were descendants of Lucy Skloutwout (1830—
1902), a Lower Cowlitz woman, and Louis Garrand, a French
Canadian contemporary of Simon Plamondon, Sr. Lucy later
also married John Weiser. Descendants from both these
marriages are part of today's petitioning group. Of their
children, six were descended from the first marriage, with
Louis Garrand.

One child, Peter Garrand (-1854-3873) married Felicite
Pichet, who, records indicate, was the Indian daughter of a
métis couple at Cowlitz Prairie. Their son, William Rae (b.
1876) was raised by the non-Indian family of Ben Wilson
after Felicite's remarriage.(2) His grandson, Roy I. Wilson,
was General Council President until 1982.

(2) The 1917 Census (#2809) of the Yakima Reservation shows
William Wilson living at the Yakima Reservation, with four
children, including Roy E. Wilson (b. 1909) .

Nothing else in this document for Felicite Pichet. Am I reading this right, is this saying Roy E. Wilson born 1909 is supposed to be the father of our guy Roy I Wilson?

The categories referred to are "social categories".

[Epiphany]

1910 Roy E Wilson with parents William R and Clara Wilson and 3 siblings in California, everyone listed as white
-----------
Roy E Wilson  1912  with father William R Wilson and same 3 siblings.

William R Wilson    Head    abt 1876    Male    Yakama (Yakima)         Washington    
Eva Wilson    Daughter    abt 1896    Female    Yakama (Yakima)         Washington    
 Gladys Wilson    Daughter    abt 1901    Female    Yakama (Yakima)         Washington    
 Ruby Wilson    Daughter    abt 1905    Female    Yakama (Yakima)         Washington    
Roy E Wilson    Son    abt 1909    Male    Yakama (Yakima)     Washington

(this lists tribe and agency, originally from Indian Census Rolls, 1885-1940, online at ancestry.com)
---------
1920 federal census family in Yakima, all listed as white
----------------
Roy I Wilson born about 1928 Washington state, 1930 in census LA California, with parents Roy E & Ethel M Wilson. Everyone in this census listed as white
----------
1940 federal census Roy E Wilson & family in California, everyone listed as white

Photo from a public tree on ancestry.com of Roy Edward Wilson , uploaded here for research

(update: Roy E Wilson is on quite a few Indian Census rolls as Yakama, as is his father in some records)

[debbieredbear]

This definitely looks like Roy I Wilson. Do you know when it was taken? If this is Roy E, then maybe Roy I does have ndn blood. It's just curous that when he introduced himself to the Indian center in Kitsap County, he said he was a white man without "one drop" of Indian blood. So if he knew alll along he had Indian blood, why say he didn't? And if you ever talk to him, it is clear he thinks like a white man. He once spoke at the local church and kept referring how "the Indians" did this or that. One of my friends who was there, and is white, said it was weird. Other people speaking at the church about their culture or religion that day said "we" do this or that. Roy was talking as though he had no connection. And the story he told was flat out strange. Some cobbled together story about how "the Indians" would go out ion their canoes and give gifts at Christmas time. Before they were Christianized.

[Epiphany]

The photo said to be of Roy E Wilson is undated, I'm thinking the clothing and hairstyles of the women look like 1950s 1960s?

From poking around on ancestry.com - his father Roy E Wilson was on Yakama rolls. But he didn't always identify himself as NDN through out his life. Although for instance in the 1940 census I don't know if census taker wrote down what they thought was identification or if each person on census contributed their own self identification.

From info on the U.S., Indian Census Rolls, 1885-1940 database:

Only persons who maintained a formal affiliation with a tribe under federal supervision are listed on these census rolls.

Is it possible that "formal affiliation" doesn't necessarily mean NDN descent?

In the Anthropological Technical Report Cowlitz - Roy I Wilson is described as metis descent, with a father "living at" the Yakima reservation. Also this:

Some métis criticized Roy Wilson and others on the Tribal council who added American Indian symbolism to the practice of
Christianity, and who conducted some ceremonies.

No matter what, Roy I Wilson's behavior sounds horrible. I wonder why there are such contradictions in his behavior. I don't know how anyone could trust him.

Is it possible his self identification changes according to how he is currently marketing himself?

[debbieredbear]

Oh, I know for a fact iot changes. When he was first in Kitsap County, he was a white Christian minister, wioth a wife who he said was "part Indian." When he left the church, or was kicked to the curb, it was under a cloud and within months he was a "shaman." He went down to the sundance at Mt. Hood and pledged. After he pledged, he went striaght into the arms of his girlfriend. In front of his wife. She tossed him out. He never did sundance, BTW. Just pledged to make himself look more spiritual for his paramour.

And if that picture was taken in the 50's or 60's, it may actually be Roy I Wilson. Since he was born in 1928, he would have been in his 20's or 30's. Was probably a minister on the rez at that time.

There is one other thing, Roy I was enrolled before federal recognition was granted. And a friend told me that some tribes that were fed recognized around the same time, had looser standards for enrollment before recognition.

One last thing. In the 80's, the State of Washington had this idea. They wanted to do something good, but did not understand how some things work. They asked the tribes to appoint "medicine men/women" who would be officially recognized by the state to perform weddings and go into prisons etc. I suspect that because he was a minister, that Roy I was appointed to his position. I know 2 people who were appointed here in Suquamish. One did something that ultimately embarrassed the tribe and they decided that it was silly to have official "medicine men" as people in the community already knew who was and who wasn't. So Ol' Roy was probably named that because he was a mionister. And because he was a minister, he actually knew nothing of the culture and spiritual traditions. I will give him this: he is a pretty good biblical scholar. Which is why he relates everything tribal to the bible. However, as a minister, I give him an F for his, er, zipper problem.

[Epiphany]

I'm thinking that photo is actually of Roy I Wilson too. Same nose, same lift of head.

I was wondering about that fast turn around of marriages. He remarried just a few days after his first divorce came through. Of course, that can happen for benign reasons, but what with his "zipper problem" - not so benign.

Hopefully more people read through this thread and elsewhere on forum so they know that people have actually become ill after attending Roy Wilson's "medicine wheel tribe" meetings.  And that he has been known to try to inappropriately grope women. To do this while in the role of authority as minister or "shaman" is extra heinous.

[Epiphany]

Roy I. Rochon Wilson was an elected leader of the Cowlitz Tribe for three decades and is the author of more than 30 books, including several histories of the Cowlitz Tribe. He is a retired ordained Methodist minister and current spiritual leader of the tribe. Wilson lives near Winlock.

http://www.chronline.com/records/article_15b9c01c-f3e6-11e1-a8d6-0019bb2963f4.html
http://www.chronline.com/records/article_5800b22a-e372-11e1-9b6b-001a4bcf887a.html

He's currently doing an ongoing series for The Chronicle newspaper of Lewis County, WA - two examples above.

[debbieredbear]

I know his current wife is at least his 3rd. The one before the present, was with him before he left the last one. I was feeling sad for her that he had so blatantly cheated on her and a friend said, "Well, he cheated with her on his first wife, so she knew he was a cheater." Such a great minister. NOT! I have also heard of people getting sick from his teachings. And from his sweat ceremonies. He encourages the men and women to wear bathing suits. In a mixed sweat, not a good idea. One woman asked my friend why she would feel worse after being in a sweat with him. My friend said she should feel b etter, but she should not sweat with Roy.

 And that reminds me, he used to have a brochure that described ceremonies he would gladly do for you. A brochure! Anyway, for a "vision quest", one must bring a blanket, a book or too, a journal and at least 2 gallons of water. ?? Sounds like camping to me.  And for a pipe ceremony one should "Potlatch" the "shaman" when requesting it. POTLATCH?? REALLY?? Funny, the people I know who would do a pipe ceremony would do it for a small offering. Like tobacco and maybe some cloth.

[catbus]

Below are direct quotes from Roy that should be noted in this discussion (from the Turtle Island Storytellers website):

I was born with an Indian father and a non-Indian mother. I have Cowlitz blood, Chinook blood, Yakama blood and Iroquois blood.

I also for many years have served as the tribal spiritual leader in the old tribal traditional ways.

He then went on to explain about the medicine wheel supposedly being the greatest of 'Indian teachings', and how it can heal the world, etc. I don't understand how he can claim that the medicine wheel is part of Cowlitz 'old tribal traditional ways'.

if I go to churches and speak in churches, I may come right out and let them know that, though the Great White Father had played his role in oppression of Native Americans, the greatest oppressor of the Indian people ever had has been the Christian Church

Words from the minister himself.

[debbieredbear]

When challenged about his medicine wheel being identical to sunbear's---which sunbear admitted to making up in a letter to a friend of mine---Ol' Roy said it was "just a coincidence" that his medicine wheel was the same as sunbear's. You see, he had a vision.

[Epiphany]

I'm reading through the book We Are Cowlitz - A Native American Ethnicity by Darleen A Fitzpatrick, published 2004. The Washington State Library has a copy that the public can check out (I have it right now but will return soon)

The book is frustrating, the index is extremely poor, lots more on Roy is in the book than the index would lead you to believe. I don't know how highly this book is regarded among Cowlitz themselves.  I ended up ignoring a lot of the author's interpretations and focused on the oral history quotes themselves.

If you get a copy of the book read pages 194 - 196. Roy is not universally well thought of. His spiritual and ceremonial claims are considered suspect, and the process of his discovering his lineage is also suspect. He's made claims for TV that certain places are archaeological sites that need blessing by him but local people would say he is wrong - no graves there, and besides his style of "blessing" and his claimed visions are weird and backwards.

Pages 209 - 211 Roy shows the author several clothing items with bead work he has done. He said the "symbolism is borrowed", he asked her if she knew the book Seven Arrows and specifically if she knew the story of the Mouse. He also asked her if she read the book about Black Elk.

Roy's use of the name Rochon in his own name looks to be a link to his past claimed lineage. His past lineage claims look a little slippery, I've seen several different versions, in this book his lineage is claimed through Augustine Rochon who is said here to have had children with Lucy Skloutwout  a Cowlitz woman (eventually known as Lucy Weaser). Augustine eventually married Celeste, they were a well known family in the area, Celeste chose the name for Toledo, Washington. In other places I've seen his lineage claimed through a different route to Lucy (through Louis Gerrard).

But Roy has also stated that he is not at all NDN (check earlier in this thread).

So he can market himself as wise Grandfather with supposed authentic local knowledge to non NDNs. I think people need to take responsibility for properly vetting anyone they accept as a spiritual leader. I definitely don't think it is racist to question Roy. The way I see it - if I as a white woman fawned over and set up Roy as a Great Holy Teacher - I'm eventually to blame too. I would be engaging in white privilege racism in my ability to assign spiritual status to anyone I find convenient. Instead of doing the actual work of living in a community, serving and helping, and learning as I go along. I know a lot of us white folks are ignorant and conned by fraudsters, but eventually we really do need to get a clue.

[educatedindian]

If this is the first time you've read academic books aimed solely at other academics, I don't blame you. The writing is fairly dense and so concerned with theory that everything else gets lost. Found the book previewed online. Here's what Cowlitz have to say about Wilson:

p. 194 describes Wilson doing a blessing at Koapk, a Cowlizt village dug up by archaeologists. Wilson thought most Cowlitz would be upset because of graves being disturbed. Local Cowlitz were not, said there were no graves there. Wilson did a blessing in Chinook, using a rotation adopted from Plains tribes. Wilson tried to take part in a Lummi smokehouse but the Lummi rejected him and his wife. Wilson is also quoted as saying "The Indian culture is a small part of my life, too small..."

p.195 describes a traditional named Joe Peters as putting Wilson in touch with Mary Kiona. A Cowlitz named Jill talks about Wilson at length:
"Wilson ain't no more a chief than a man in the moon...When he came up here from California, he was a white man when I first saw him, and then all of a sudden he became an Indian preacher and a medicine man and everything else. Going to [Koapk] we were laughing because that place he went to and said it was a fishing hole and some damned thing and had him on Tv blessing it. Nobody in the Cowlizt Tribe even knew about it but he, and he from California."
Later on:
"...the ceremony he performed wasn't worth two cents. It didn't mean nothing to me. We just laughed at him. Pustin, he's a white man."
[Pustin means white, as in from Boston.]

p.209 describes Wilson in detail as someone trying to remake Cowlitz beliefs through what he understands (or believe he does) about Plains beliefs, esp the Seven Arrows fraud. "The signs that are of interest to Wilson are generalized and stereotyped."

p. 210 describes Wilson wearing a jacket to powwows that had a design in beadwork imitating the Plains wheel of life. The two of them talked in detail about Seven Arrows.

That's all that's available for preview.  http://books.google.com/books?id=PpaSbEGmOaEC&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false