Introduction

[Viktoria]

Greetings!

My name is Viktoria.  I just happened upon your site this morning.  I am a 35 y/o, married white woman living in Albany, New York and I identify as pagan.  I do not have any Native ancestry at all. 

What attracted me to your site was that the issue of fraudulent and abusive shamans/teachers.  It's one that, I'm sorry to say, I have a lot of experience with.  The kicker is, that I have no interest in Native American spirituality, never pursued it - I was looking for Wiccan training - and yet I STILL fell prey to an abusive shaman!

Without getting into the sordid details (though I may well disclose them here one day), I did wind up enduring sexual exploitation as well as getting abused and ripped off in a number of ways by the female leader of a local group calling itself "The Society of Modern American Shamans".  I got out of that situation four years ago and got the appropriate counseling for it. Nonetheless, I'm still mad as hell and I want very much to become active on this issue. Sadly, it's not one that the pagan community seems to take as seriously as it should. 

I sincerely hope that with the amount of energy that I have behind this issue, that I can be of some use to you folks.  Pleased to meet you all!

-Viktoria

[Barnaby_McEwan]

Hi there Viktoria

I'm white too. I guess you could call me an ex-pagan: Barnaby the Apostate, if you like. One reason for this is that in my opinion paganism features many untrue historical claims: for example that nine million people died in the 'Burning Times', or that Wicca developed from a surviving pre-Christian religion.

Other reasons include the amount of bigotry I noticed, which was justified in exactly similar terms to that of other religious bigots. This included rampant sexism, which was rather surpising to a naif like me who thought paganism emphasised women's equality. I also read and heard that homosexuality is 'un-natural', women are 'less intellectual', and that only 'Indo-Europeans' can be pagans. With a few brave exceptions willing to risk ostracism from their community, most pagans seemed not to give a damn about any of this.

I'm sorry you were abused and am glad you have recovered from the experience. I think one reason why paganism attracts these scumbags is that it devalues rationality, encouraging people to give up critical thinking. While the issues I've touched on remain unaddressed, which I fear will be the case, it will inevitably remain this way, and more people will be abused.

[Viktoria]

I know what you mean, Barnaby!  Although I did luck out after getting away from those people and found some good pagans who take the role of clergy and the principles of paganism seriously.  If I had'nt, there's no way I ever would have remained pagan.  I'm curious, though, as to who  you had to deal with.  I mean sure paganism has some scumbags, but you don't usually get 'em that hypocritical!

[Barnaby_McEwan]

Thankfully it's all getting a bit hazy. It'd be unfair to mention people's names now since they might well have changed even more than I have, and since I'm in the UK I doubt you'd recognise them anyway. Here's one exmple that stunned me. I expect you've heard of the Pagan Federation: it's the largest pagan organisation in Britain. Its regional newsletter for my area once featured, in the reader artwork section, four semi-silhouette drawings of a large-breasted young woman wearing nothing but a pair of high heels. These were apparently inspired by the (male) artist's relationship with the Wiccan Goddess, but were indistiguishable from the kind of pornography that I gather is considered "tasteful" by its consumers.

For pagan homophobia, see this page. Gay people are still being told they are inferior by pagans. The stuff about 'Native American two-spirits' on that page reminded me of this thread. This pagan writer seems to think he's doing gay people a favour by explaining homosexuality in terms of tedious stereotypes and biology-is-destiny arguments, all of which I have seen or heard before from pagans. These same masculine/feminine stereotypes underpin most pagan thinking about the sexes and sexuality, gay or straight. I just got so tired of hearing about male or female 'energies'.

As for racism, well, the extreme right's neopaganism survived the Third Reich. My main interest in paganism these days is its intersection with the racist right.

[Viktoria]

That's pretty shocking, but I do beleive you, even though it's not like that in the American pagan community at all!  I remember attending a talk given by a certain pagan elder from a very large, fast-growing and progressive wiccan trad describing some of the issues local groups face.  He did mention how strictly traditionalist and exclusionary the British pagan community can be and what challenges that posed for their people over there.

Over here, we greatly value eclecticism and diversity and we are starting to form open congregations instead of the traditional closed coven structure.  Trust me, in America, anyone in the pagan community who is racist or homophobic like that will very quickly find themselves unwelcomed in a lot of places.  Even my so-called shaman eventually got hers by being banned from every pagan festival on the eastern seaboard!  (Gotta love that Law of Threefold Return!).  In the groups that I belong to, we do have LBGT and people of color as members, including Native Americans. 

[Barnaby_McEwan]

Over here, we greatly value eclecticism and diversity and we are starting to form open congregations instead of the traditional closed coven structure.  Trust me, in America, anyone in the pagan community who is racist or homophobic like that will very quickly find themselves unwelcomed in a lot of places.

I'd like to think that's largely true over here. I have gay pagan friends who as far as I know have had no problems. However, there are still problems both sides of the water: one of the web pages I cited was from the Canadian Pagan Federation site.

If you want to discuss this a bit more please send me a PM, so we don't clog up the recent posts page with our prattle.